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Post by Siskoid on May 23, 2014 17:18:23 GMT
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Post by Siskoid on May 23, 2014 19:24:22 GMT
Annnnnnd it's got an Iris Wildthyme 3-pager already in it.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus 
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on May 23, 2014 19:45:43 GMT
Very nice - I particularly like the expression on Alpha Centauri's face (a phrase I never thought I'd hear, let alone use). I wonder whether something is needed behind the Doctor's other shoulder, to balance Alpha Centauri - maybe Diamond Jack from the cover of The Magician's Oath? Just a suggestion. |
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Post by Siskoid on May 23, 2014 20:55:24 GMT
I tried stuff like that but it made the cover too busy. I don't know why, but the colors play havoc with this one.
If I find the right character however, I'm open to it. I just haven't yet.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on May 24, 2014 9:29:50 GMT
Fair enough - I think I get overly fixated on symmetry sometimes.  |
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Post by Siskoid on May 27, 2014 12:46:27 GMT
Updates to master list. 2nd book will be made available in the next few days, so I am definitely open for business re: receiving 3rd book entries.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on May 27, 2014 13:48:47 GMT
I'll be sending you some of the write-ups I put myself down for later today; the others I just want to tidy up, so they'll follow over the next week or two.
Beyond these, can I put myself down for the following books initially:
Catastrophea
Rags (I think I must be the only reader who liked this one!)
Deadly Reunion
Island of Death
The Time Trips ebook Salt of the Earth needs to be added to the list. I've got this so can cover it (but I haven't read it yet to know what I'll use from it).
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Post by Siskoid on May 27, 2014 16:41:32 GMT
And most of the material (all except gadgets) already in the document.
Images: I wonder if anyone has access to art from TV Comic featuring Tolliver's time machine, or the Doctor's cottage?
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on May 27, 2014 17:22:50 GMT
Images: I wonder if anyone has access to art from TV Comic featuring Tolliver's time machine, or the Doctor's cottage? I've been doing a bit of research while drafting these entries, so I've got some sample pages from the comic strips that I can send you - they're quite large files though, so I may split them over more than one email. |
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Post by Siskoid on May 27, 2014 18:41:01 GMT
Most of them made it to today's last update, thanks!
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on May 27, 2014 18:52:25 GMT
Most of them made it to today's last update, thanks! Not sure if it's a problem at my end, but I'm having trouble with the file - I can't get it to open in Adobe (it says it's either damaged or not supported) and the file size has ballooned to 60mb. |
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Post by Siskoid on May 27, 2014 19:21:27 GMT
I think I uploaded the InDesign master file absentmindedly. All better now, sorry about that.
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Post by dastari on Jun 2, 2014 3:59:14 GMT
I tried stuff like that but it made the cover too busy. I don't know why, but the colors play havoc with this one. If I find the right character however, I'm open to it. I just haven't yet. If only the third Doctor had encountered the Zarbi... How about a Cyberman from The Blue Tooth? Oh and guys, I am so sorry about the Troughton submissions. I think that I'm going to try and stay mostly with audios this time except for the two books that I've already staked out. I'll also put myself down for The Magician's Oath and Vengeance of the Stones. |
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Jun 2, 2014 8:25:04 GMT
If only the third Doctor had encountered the Zarbi... One of my submissions for the 3rd Doctor book does include an adventure seed set on Vortis. Unfortunately I completely forgot to mention the Zarbi - but maybe it could be tweaked a little... |
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Post by dastari on Jun 2, 2014 17:34:42 GMT
If only the third Doctor had encountered the Zarbi... One of my submissions for the 3rd Doctor book does include an adventure seed set on Vortis. Unfortunately I completely forgot to mention the Zarbi - but maybe it could be tweaked a little... I still think that we need a Zarbi on every cover. Siskoid, maybe you could use your tiny Zarbi from the first book and put one on each of Pertwee's shoulders? #Zarbioneverycover :-) |
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Jun 6, 2014 12:57:06 GMT
I've just noticed dastari's comment that Face of the Enemy isn't included in the list of BBC novels. Although it doesn't feature the Doctor, it's firmly set in his UNIT days (during the time he and Jo were away on Peladon, in fact) and features the Brig, Benton, Yates and the Master (as well as Ian and Barbara). So it would fit into the 3rd Doctor Sourcebook, no problem.
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Post by Siskoid on Jun 6, 2014 14:51:56 GMT
Ok, updated list. Also updated document with all the stuff form Harvest of Time.
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Post by Siskoid on Jun 13, 2014 17:52:06 GMT
The timeline order as I see it... some guesses in there. Only stories we're covering for sure are included. Thanks for spotting mistakes.
Devious
Spearhead from Space
Doctor Who and the Silurians
Old Soldiers
Shadow of the Past
The Ambassadors of Death
The Mind Extractors
The Ghouls of Grestonpey
Inferno
Vengeance of the Stones
Prisoners of the Sun
The Eye of the Giant
The Blue Tooth
The Scales of Injustice
The Devil Goblins of Neptune
Binary
The Last Post
The Rings of Ikiria
Terror of the Autons
The Sentinels of the New Dawn
The Mind of Evil
Deadly Reunion
The Claws of Axos
Harvest of Time
The Doll of Death
The Mega
The Mists of Time
Colony in Space
The Daemons
Freedom
The Magician's Oath
Find and Replace
The Forgotten
Tales from the Vault [Jo's Story]
Day of the Daleks
The Curse of Peladon
Salt of the Earth
The Face of the Enemy
Rags
The Elixir of Doom
The Switching
Who Killed Kennedy?
The Sea Devils
The Mutants
TV Action
The Time Monster
Verdigris
The Scorchies
The Three Doctors
The Wages of Sin
The Spear of Destiny
Carnival of Monsters
The Suns of Caresh
The Many Deaths of Jo Grant
Ghost in the Machine
Frontier in Space
Planet of the Daleks
Catastrophea
Pop-up
Nightdreamers
Dancing the Code
Last of the Gaderene
Speed of Flight
The Green Death
The Three Companions [The Brigadier's Story]
The Prisoner of Peladon
TV Comic
Midnight in the Café of the Black Madonna
The Time Warrior
The Paradise of Death
Council of War
Invasion of the Dinosaurs
Prisoners of Time
Death to the Daleks
Neptune and Sedna
The Ghosts of N-Space
The Monster of Peladon
Amorality Tale
Island of Death
Planet of the Spiders
P.R.O.B.E.
Tales from the Vault (present-day)
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Jun 13, 2014 19:08:28 GMT
A few suggestions on the timeline- some of these are based on very slim evidence though:
The Last Post - the main action is set between The Ambassadors of Death and Inferno (though the story as a whole is spread over a wider period)
The Doll of Death - I think this should be after The Daemons
The Mists of Time and The Scorchies - I think these should both be after The Three Doctors
Find and Replace and Ghost in the Machine - I place both after Planet of the Daleks
Salt of the Earth - currently missing from the list, should be somewhere between Planet of the Daleks and The Green Death
Council of War - should be after The Green Death
Neptune and Sedna are two separate (but linked) stories, but the placement is fine.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Jun 15, 2014 9:32:28 GMT
It also occurs to me that the comic-strips need to be split up in the timeline:
TV Comic (1st run: The Arkwood Experiments - The Kingdom Builders)
Some of these feature Liz and are set early on in the Doctor's UNIT career. He does have Bessie though, so they are after Doctor Who and the Silurians. It's possible that the last few stories are set after Liz's departure back to Cambridge, but for simplicity I'd suggest keeping them together.
The strip then moves to...
Countdown (later retitled TV Action)
The Doctor is able to control the TARDIS, and as Jo doesn't feature these should most likely be set after The Green Death. These stories include the Doctor's encounters with the Vogans (in The Vogan Slaves) and Theophilus Tolliver (in The Eternal Present), and the introduction of his cottage.
The strip then moves back to...
TV Comic (2nd run: Children of the Evil Eye - The Wanderers)
Some of the strips in the related holiday specials include Sarah Jane so are set during Season 11 (exact setting is fairly arbitrary - probably fairly early on though). These include Arnold's brief travels with the Doctor.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Jun 16, 2014 14:50:12 GMT
If nobody objects, I'll take on the following novels:
Verdigris
The Face of the Enemy
The Wages of Sin
Who Killed Kennedy
I'll aim to cover the entries suggested for these in the list in the opening post, plus anything else I think is suitable as I work my way through them.
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Post by Escher on Jun 16, 2014 16:07:34 GMT
...the following novels: Who Killed Kennedy Just a mention. Anyone who is a UNIT fan and especially of the Third Doctor / Master (Delgado) needs to go and get this book right now.
Especially for any late 1960's-70's UNIT campaigns, this book is a must-have as it shows the viewpoint of a journalist / member of the public looking from the outside-in on all those classic UNIT-based Earth invasions. |
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Post by dastari on Jun 16, 2014 17:46:50 GMT
The timeline order as I see it... some guesses in there. Only stories we're covering for sure are included. Thanks for spotting mistakes. Vengeance of the Stones is supposed to take place between Spearhead from Space and The Silurians. Binary ought to be between The Blue Tooth and Scales of Injustice. Liz decides that she's going to stay at UNIT after deciding to leave in The Blue Tooth only to finally decide to leave in Scales. I concur with Mr Harry that The Doll of Death should go after The Daemons. I concur with Mr Harry that The Mists of Time should go between The Three Doctors and before Wages of Sin. I think that the Magician's Oath ought to be between The Curse of Peladon and the Sea Devils. Jo's going out on a date with Mike in Curse but her memory that Mike has any interest in her is erased in The Magician's Oath. I actually disagree with Mr Harry on Find and Replace. I put it after The Sea Devils. The Doctor knows that the Master is on Earth and whips up a kind of locator to find him. This only makes sense if it's after the Sea Devils. The Master goes out to sea to escape and will therefore have to return to his TARDIS at some point. Some sort of offscreen appearance is possible but I can only go on onscreen on-audio or on-book references. The Scorchies occurs after The Three Doctors as the Gel Guards are mentioned. I personally put it after Planet of the Daleks but there's no real reason for it. It just has to happen at some point after The Three Doctors. I concur with Mr Harry that Ghost in the Machine should take place after Planet of the Daleks. I also concur with Mr Harry that Council of War should occur between The Green Death and The Time Warrior. I personally put it after The Prisoner of Peladon. |
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Jun 16, 2014 18:25:29 GMT
Vengeance of the Stones is supposed to take place between Spearhead from Space and The Silurians. Wouldn't that conflict with Scales of Injustice, which is set after Inferno? Yates is still only a Sergeant in Scales. I know he's promoted directly from Sergeant to Captain at the end of the book (which is a bit odd anyway), but an earlier placement for Vengeance of the Stones only compounds the problem - he'd go from Lieutenant (Vengeance) to Sergeant (Scales) to Captain. Big Finish's official placement is between The Daemons and Day of the Daleks. Couldn't Mike have made more than one move on Jo? I can't remember my reasons for placing this after Planet of the Daleks - is there an implication that the Doctor has regained control of the TARDIS? [ EDIT: Looking at the CD cover, it's stated to be set between Planet of the Daleks and The Green Death, so that'll be it.] |
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Post by dastari on Jun 16, 2014 22:44:00 GMT
Vengeance of the Stones is supposed to take place between Spearhead from Space and The Silurians. Wouldn't that conflict with Scales of Injustice, which is set after Inferno? Yates is still only a Sergeant in Scales. I know he's promoted directly from Sergeant to Captain at the end of the book (which is a bit odd anyway), but an earlier placement for Vengeance of the Stones only compounds the problem - he'd go from Lieutenant (Vengeance) to Sergeant (Scales) to Captain. Big Finish has never paid much respect to the book continuity, although certain novels have. They've already diverged from Eye of the Giant and Scales of Injustice version of things. Both the Brigadier and Liz mention Yates as a Captain working with UNIT during the events of Old Soldiers and Shadow of the Past. Vengeance of the Stones makes it clear that this is the first time that Yates has met either the Doctor and the Brigadier and he's unfamiliar with UNIT. At the end of the story he gets seconded to UNIT. In Terror of the Autons it's mentioned that Yates joined UNIT sometime during the cleanup from Spearhead from Space, so we're kind of forced to place this here. For the two below, Big Finish has been notoriously bad about it's story placement. There have even been cases where the placement on the back of the CD cover is different than what BF has placed on their own website and I believe that's part of why they don't do it anymore. It seems to me that BF put those story placements up as an afterthought and in some cases don't even appear to have asked the authors what their original intent was. To me if the events of a story blatantly contradict the placement on the cover then the placement on the cover should be ignored I think that the Magician's Oath ought to be between The Curse of Peladon and the Sea Devils. Jo's going out on a date with Mike in Curse but her memory that Mike has any interest in her is erased in The Magician's Oath. Big Finish's official placement is between The Daemons and Day of the Daleks. Couldn't Mike have made more than one move on Jo? I'll quote my reasoning from my blog: This story takes place between The Curse of Peladon and The Sea Devils. I realize that the back of the cover says differently but I don't buy it. To me this has to occur after The Curse of Peladon. Jo expects to go on a date with Mike Yates in that story and I'm sorry but there's no way that you can't at least suspect that someone might have a thing for you if they ask you on a date. Besides, Day of the Daleks also has Mike flirting with Jo in a way that makes me think that she has to realize that something is up. Really this story could happen anywhere after Curse of Peladon and before The Three Doctors but I like to put it between Curse of Peladon and The Sea Devils to explain why Jo's dating of Mike is never mentioned again. The story makes it clear during the narration that because of the events that transpire that Jo was never aware that Mike might have a thing for her until sometime around "our present" when Mike is narrating the story to someone at UNIT. Mike also mentions that the spark between them had vanished. Both the tone and the details to me indicate a post Peladon dating. I actually disagree with Mr Harry on Find and Replace. I put it after The Sea Devils. The Doctor knows that the Master is on Earth and whips up a kind of locator to find him. This only makes sense if it's after the Sea Devils. The Master goes out to sea to escape and will therefore have to return to his TARDIS at some point. Some sort of offscreen appearance is possible but I can only go on onscreen on-audio or on-book references. I can't remember my reasons for placing this after Planet of the Daleks - is there an implication that the Doctor has regained control of the TARDIS? [ EDIT: Looking at the CD cover, it's stated to be set between Planet of the Daleks and The Green Death, so that'll be it.] I'm going to quote from my blog again here: The second half of this story takes place between The Sea Devils and The Mutants. Although the back cover of the CD states that it happens between Planet of the Daleks and The Green Death this is clearly wrong as the Doctor and Sergeant Benton both mention that the Doctor is currently exiled to Earth. This clearly places it before The Three Doctors. The Doctor is also looking for the Master, which places it after his escape in The Sea Devils. Other guides have placed this story between The Time Monster and The Three Doctors but it seems odd to me that the Doctor would assume that the Master is still on contemporary Earth after that story. To me it makes more sense if this happens very soon after the events of the Sea Devils. The Master after making his escape out to sea would eventually have to return to England as ostensibly that is where his TARDIS is and would explain why the Doctor has built a tracking device that could be used in the fashion shown in the story. This is a pretty blatant example of what I was talking about above. BF places it between Planet of the Daleks and The Green Death but a very big deal is made in this story that Iris and Jo have gone back to the point in time when the Doctor is exiled to Earth and doesn't know when it'll ever end, so it clearly happens before The Three Doctors. The Doctor makes a Master locator in the story that lights up a dot over a map of England to show the Doctor where the Master is. To me it makes more sense for the Doctor to assume that the Master is still in England after The Sea Devils rather than after The Time Monster as the Master could have gone anywhere after Cronos let him go. Yeah, I know I'm incredibly anal when it comes to story placement. I always look out for any mention or clues as to when the story is set when listening to or reading past Doctor adventures... |
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Post by Siskoid on Jun 17, 2014 0:43:48 GMT
Great discussion guys! Here's what the update looks like:
Devious
Spearhead from Space
Vengeance of the Stones
Doctor Who and the Silurians
Old Soldiers
Shadow of the Past
The Ambassadors of Death
The Mind Extractors
The Ghouls of Grestonpey
TV Comic: The Arkwood Experiments to The Kingdom Builders
The Last Post
Inferno
Prisoners of the Sun
The Eye of the Giant
The Blue Tooth
Binary
The Scales of Injustice
The Devil Goblins of Neptune
The Rings of Ikiria
Terror of the Autons
The Sentinels of the New Dawn
The Mind of Evil
Deadly Reunion
The Claws of Axos
Harvest of Time
The Mega
Colony in Space
The Daemons
The Doll of Death
Freedom
The Forgotten
Tales from the Vault [Jo's Story]
Day of the Daleks
The Curse of Peladon
The Magician's Oath
The Face of the Enemy
Rags
The Switching
Who Killed Kennedy?
The Sea Devils
Find and Replace
The Mutants
The Time Monster
Verdigris
The Three Doctors
The Mists of Time
The Wages of Sin
The Spear of Destiny
The Scorchies
Carnival of Monsters
The Suns of Caresh
The Many Deaths of Jo Grant
Frontier in Space
Planet of the Daleks
Catastrophea
Ghost in the Machine
Pop-up
Nightdreamers
Dancing the Code
Last of the Gaderene
Speed of Flight
Salt of the Earth
The Green Death
Countdown/TV Action
The Three Companions [The Brigadier's Story]
The Prisoner of Peladon
Council of War
Midnight in the Café of the Black Madonna
The Time Warrior
The Paradise of Death
TV Comic: Children of the Evil Eye to The Wanderers
Invasion of the Dinosaurs
Prisoners of Time
Death to the Daleks
Neptune
Sedna
The Ghosts of N-Space
The Monster of Peladon
Amorality Tale
Island of Death
Planet of the Spiders
P.R.O.B.E.
Tales from the Vault
The Elixir of Doom
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Post by dastari on Jun 17, 2014 17:34:24 GMT
Great discussion guys! Here's what the update looks like: Oh one more thing. The Elixir of Doom is kind of a hard one to place. It's considered a Third Doctor companion chronicle because it stars Jo but it's an older Jo from the present traveling with Iris after the events of Find and Replace. I would put it at the end of the timeline here. |
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Post by Siskoid on Jun 20, 2014 14:49:38 GMT
Update with timeline, Adventure seeds and material from Rags and Deadly Reunion.
I ALSO HAVE AN IDEA:
Reading Devil Goblins, it struck me that it might be interesting to include extracanonical UNIT members of interest in the Allies section, but as a single 2-page entry. So each would NOT be stated. I'm thinking of a single paragraph, and the possible mention of Skills/Traits that differentiate them in some important way from similar characters. I would probably not include more than one such character per book/audio. For Devil Gobins, it would be Captain Sushkin, the USSR's female equivalent of Mike Yates.
What do you think? Have you come across such "featured" UNITeers in your readings and listenings who would benefit from such a format?
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,315
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Jun 20, 2014 17:58:39 GMT
I ALSO HAVE AN IDEA: Reading Devil Goblins, it struck me that it might be interesting to include extracanonical UNIT members of interest in the Allies section, but as a single 2-page entry. So each would NOT be stated. I'm thinking of a single paragraph, and the possible mention of Skills/Traits that differentiate them in some important way from similar characters. I would probably not include more than one such character per book/audio. For Devil Gobins, it would be Captain Sushkin, the USSR's female equivalent of Mike Yates. What do you think? Have you come across such "featured" UNITeers in your readings and listenings who would benefit from such a format? I like that idea! I also like the fact that you announced it in capitals, lending it an air of excitement!  I don't think I've found many significant UNIT personnel so far, but I think I could write something for Corporal Robinson from Rags. I'll also have a look back at Harvest of Time - there were one or two helicopter pilots, but I can't remember whether they were UNIT or RAF. When you've written it, could you post the entry for Captain Sushkin, to give me an idea of format and word count you're looking for? |
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Post by Siskoid on Jun 20, 2014 18:02:48 GMT
Sure! Sushkin should be written up along with the Waro by the end of the weekend.
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