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Post by Siskoid on Apr 29, 2011 13:25:32 GMT
@kaemaril: Oh, I've got the same problem. Too many players who aren't Who fans right now and that I want to please. Change the mix of players and anything's possible. My point is that new product doesn't come into it. Where there's a will, there's a way. Where there isn't, well, plenty of other games in the sea.
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Post by olegrand on Apr 29, 2011 14:53:53 GMT
While new product is always nice, my interest and that of my players is not based on new product coming out. (...) I could play Doctor Who this summer or in 10 years, or FOR 10 years regardless of new product coming out. It would be nice, because I'm a fan of both the game and the show, but by no means is it affecting my role-playing habits. I feel exactly like you - I've been running an Amber Diceless campaign for years now and, like many older gamers, I'm well used to dissociating my "actual play" interest from what you might call the "commercial life" of a game - I know I will keep on running and enjoying DWAITAS regardless of its commercial future and my above comments were purely about this commercial / communication aspect of things. On these forum boards, I've found fantastic resources for actual DWAITAS play - so perhaps we should try to focus on this aspect of the game, whatever the future has in store (ah !) for the game.
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Post by Siskoid on Apr 29, 2011 17:06:25 GMT
Definitely. I'm happy to know that this forum has such a wealth of stated characters, aliens, gadgets, and campaign ideas (not that it's especially hard to stat things in DWAITAS or anything).
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Apr 29, 2011 18:04:15 GMT
As one of the contributors to that thread, I've PMed Neil to ask him why he feels we were being uncivil. I can see no justification myself. I don't know if you'll get a reply or not, but this was just posted: What. The. Hell. No, looks like I'm not going to get a reply other than that post. Bizarre. There was nothing in the thread that I can see worthy of anybody complaining about (other than Cubicle 7 coming in for criticism), let alone those complaints being upheld by the moderators. Looks like we've all been told to belt up and stop asking awkward questions!
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Post by elbarre on Apr 30, 2011 3:50:16 GMT
I read the forum stuff over there and I did not complain but, really that discussion was a bit much ( I know I'm gonna get flack for this but..) really when it comes down to it at the end of the day its just a game. The stuff is gonna come out when it comes out. I made my pre order like everybody else and yes I was a little let down when it didn't come out in this month but oh well. In my mind I'm just appreciative that dr who is back on tv and I have a cool new rpg to go with it. So I'll just wait for the stuff to come out my friends and I have other games we can play. I enjoy the cubicle 7 stuff and if it comes out good if it don't then oh well.
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Post by elbarre on Apr 30, 2011 6:39:43 GMT
I'm also w siskoid I could play Dr Who for another 10 yrs and there never has to be another product come out. My friends and I built Dr who campaigns out of Palladium system rules and used stuff from fasa and timelord from time to time. I know what its like to run a small company, I run a small production company and we filmed a movie last summer and it is still not finished because of audio problems. I kept telling people it would be done at this time and at that time but I had to go through two different audio techs. So I understand when you promise people something and you cant get it out on time because of a lack of help or funds or have to go through licensing issues these guys are just normal people trying to do the best they can to run a business, and I applaud them for coming this far. To go from I'm guessing a small press company to gaining huge licenses like Doctor Who and Lord Of the Rings must be a dream and yet be a huge undertaking. I look forward to there releases coming up for Doctor Who, like everyone else, I think we all should just take a deep breathe and just wait for the stuff. My campaign runs off and on, so my guys don't get bored. I guess its like man I waited 15 years for Doctor Who to come back on the screen, there were times when I thought it was dead, If I can wait 15 years for who to come back I can wait a few months or whatever it is.
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 30, 2011 9:07:06 GMT
I read the forum stuff over there and I did not complain but, really that discussion was a bit much ( I know I'm gonna get flack for this but..) Flack? No. But what, out of interest, did you think was (or might have been near to) objectionable?
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Post by Rel Fexive on Apr 30, 2011 12:15:13 GMT
Probably everyone's impatience, impoliteness, assumption that they know better how C7 should do their job, and the general of sense of entitlement.
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 30, 2011 13:25:05 GMT
Probably everyone's impatience, impoliteness, assumption that they know better how C7 should do their job, and the general of sense of entitlement. Oh, please. How dreadfully remiss of me to think that C7 should a) communicate more fully with their customers. That's a fault that Dominic, you'll note, acknowledged. and b) not advertise products on their online store that not only have no possibility of reaching customers during the month they've advertised but quite possibly haven't even entered production yet. Even now, their store STILL says April. If you think that's me assuming that I know better than C7 how to do their job you're sadly mistaken. As for a sense of entitlement - the only thing I believe I'm entitled to was to learn the outcome of the phonecalls that the C7 "community manager" explicitly said he was going to make on our behalf: Over a week later, nothing. Not even "I tried, but I didn't get anywhere". That's all I feel I'm entitled to: when somebody says he's going to do something, I take him at his word that he's going to do it. And as for impatience? I started that thread a month ago, on March 26th, and on the day it was closed we still hadn't received one word of an meaningful response to my original question. A month. Not just any old month by the way, but the month it was supposed to be hitting their store. Now, I don't know about impoliteness. Personally, I don't think anybody was called any names, had their parentage or motivations questioned, etc. But certainly there was some frustration. I can scarcely believe it, for a product a mere six months late with no actual publication date in sight, but there you go.
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Post by CharlieBananas on Apr 30, 2011 14:43:42 GMT
Probably everyone's impatience, impoliteness, assumption that they know better how C7 should do their job, and the general of sense of entitlement. Yeah thats the way I felt after reading it, I didn't complain or say anything on C7's behalf, but if I had I would have just said... Nut up, or shut up, if it erks people that bad then cancel your pre-order and move on, I've had the UNIT book on order for the best part of 18 months, I will get it when I get it.
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Post by elbarre on Apr 30, 2011 17:08:24 GMT
Yea what Rel Fexive said thats what I got from it
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 30, 2011 18:15:40 GMT
Yeah thats the way I felt after reading it, I didn't complain or say anything on C7's behalf, but if I had I would have just said... Nut up, or shut up, if it erks people that bad then cancel your pre-order and move on, I've had the UNIT book on order for the best part of 18 months, I will get it when I get it. Yeah, you're right. I guess when a company keeps it's customers in the dark for months on end, advertises products on its store it has absolutely no intention of delivering on time, says it's going to make an announcement about that product then doesn't, then has it's community manager say he's going to get you some information, then reneges on that too ... Well, customers should just shut the **** up about it, don't ask any questions, and think themselves lucky they're going to get the product they ordered months ago at some unspecified point in the future. Maybe by August. Or maybe not. Yeah, that's the best plan. Just out of interest, has C7 ever released any information without me - or somebody very much like me - nagging them about it? Would the early release of the A&C PDF to compensate for the lateness of the physical product have happened if people hadn't moaned about the delays? Me, I don't know. But the saying 'the squeaky wheel gets the oil' had to come from somewhere. But apparently all the other wheels will get together and go 'Come on now, Squeaky, shut the hell up and don't be mean to the guy doing the driving.' But you know what? You are so right, people should just 'nut up, or shut up'. So here goes. Pre-orders? Gone. And here's me moving on from Doctor Who : Adventures In Time And Space. I hope Cubicle 7 eventually get some good product out to you, and you have fun with it. It was nice knowing you all. Goodbye.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Apr 30, 2011 19:51:07 GMT
What, again?
So, d'you think people have learned to accept that C7 isn't in complete control over what they can say about the game yet? Or will they keep banging their heads against the same "we aren't allowed to talk about it" wall?
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Post by imajica on May 1, 2011 19:45:57 GMT
Just checked, out of interest, and it still says April today. That's probably because they've got no means to update the store over the weekend, but still.
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Post by CharlieBananas on May 2, 2011 17:33:56 GMT
Not only that but it's a bank holiday, second double holiday in a row, and a lot of people have used them to get an extended break by taking three days of their yearly hols to get eleven days off.
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Post by starkllr on May 2, 2011 18:42:08 GMT
Obviously they don't have complete control, and I don't think anybody expects C7 to come out and say "Yeah, we've had the bloody products ready to go to theprinter for six months, but Bob Johnson at the BBC licensing department is holding everything up, and here's his phone number, home address, and the route his daughter takes to school, in case any of you fans wants to try to get a straight answer out of him."
But would it really kill them to occasionally post any kind of update at all on their website, or their forums, or, well, somewhere?
How about "We know you're frustrated that the new box set and supplements aren't in the store yet. We're working hard to make them as good as they can possibly be, and we hope to have them out later this year, and as soon as we have more concrete information, we'll let you know."
There, that isn't so hard. They seriously can't post something like that once a month, updated as necessary?
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Post by Rel Fexive on May 2, 2011 21:42:20 GMT
The impression I get is that, often, the answer is no they can't. Now if you think that sounds mad from a company trying to sell its products to a group as twitchy, loud and argumentative as gamers who are also Who fans, you'd be right. But the BBC don't seem to appreciate that (if that's where the problem lies). I'm sure everyone at C7 is well aware of it, even before this rash of problems.
Gamers have gotten too used to knowing when everything will be released, what the status of the project is, and getting the word direct from the publishers. When they don't get all that they get irritable, and it looks like that's not entirely fair in this case.
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sirus
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 48
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Post by sirus on May 3, 2011 18:22:30 GMT
This is getting kinda silly. What it comes down to is we don't know anything and someone is to blame. So people point at C7 or better yet the BBC. And since these our companies much larger than any one person It's ok. But now we fight amongst ourselves trying to figure out who tro blame and what to blame them for. I'll buy that C& needs to get thier ducks in a row, but let's face it they're doing a series 5 update and by the time they get it out series 6 will be over. On the other hand we have the BBC. I have no clue what's going on with licensing, and I don't honestly care. The game has to count for some profitability, and by clogging the system they're just making the fans and the gamers mad. All that aside I don't see any fan made works to cover this coming out. I mean If the big guys can't do it, why can't the angry little guys? There I've said my peace, now I'm gonna go watch series 5 through for thr 12th time...
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infinitydoctor
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 116
Favourite Doctors: 2nd and 4th
Traits: Run For Your Life! Technically Adept, Forgetful, Impulsive, Phobia (Snakes)
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Post by infinitydoctor on May 3, 2011 18:54:24 GMT
Gamers have gotten too used to knowing when everything will be released, what the status of the project is, and getting the word direct from the publishers. When they don't get all that they get irritable, and it looks like that's not entirely fair in this case. I think the problem with C7 (for me anyway) wasn't so much the missed release dates - it was the fact that they'd taken money for pre-orders and then not delivered the product. And we're not talking just a week or so late, but months. If the pre-order was simply a promise to purchase, and the money was going to be taken at point of eventual dispatch (like Amazon do), it wouldn't have been so bad. You're right though, all the complaining and raising heck on their forum (or this one) doesn't really accomplish anything beyond it being an opportunity to vent. I took the pragmatic route and cancelled all my pre-orders, got the money back (as I said before, with no quibbles at all) and will quite happily buy the new stuff as and when it becomes available. (And I'm using the Eighth Doctor anyways, so short of this first release being a shiny new Dr Who toy, its not going to be of immense value from a gaming point of view.... )
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Post by Mark Anthony Quested on May 3, 2011 23:30:03 GMT
Gamers have gotten too used to knowing when everything will be released, what the status of the project is, and getting the word direct from the publishers. When they don't get all that they get irritable, and it looks like that's not entirely fair in this case. I think the problem with C7 (for me anyway) wasn't so much the missed release dates - it was the fact that they'd taken money for pre-orders and then not delivered the product. And we're not talking just a week or so late, but months. If the pre-order was simply a promise to purchase, and the money was going to be taken at point of eventual dispatch (like Amazon do), it wouldn't have been so bad. You're right though, all the complaining and raising heck on their forum (or this one) doesn't really accomplish anything beyond it being an opportunity to vent. I took the pragmatic route and cancelled all my pre-orders, got the money back (as I said before, with no quibbles at all) and will quite happily buy the new stuff as and when it becomes available. (And I'm using the Eighth Doctor anyways, so short of this first release being a shiny new Dr Who toy, its not going to be of immense value from a gaming point of view.... ) @infinity... I was happy to pre-order, as money is tight at the moment, so I thought I'd pre-order whilst I had the money. However, in the event of these items never getting released, or taking endless months, can you please tell me how you went about getting your refund? Thank you. i.e. Did you go through Paypal? Did you contact Angus via the sales address, give him your order numbers and ask to be refunded? Etc, etc, etc. Whilst I love the game and like Angus and his company, I do think they are a bit foolish accepting pre-orders before the game has been ready to hit the stores. I think they should only have accepted pre-orders when the actual product hit the printing preses and was physically being manufactured.
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infinitydoctor
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 116
Favourite Doctors: 2nd and 4th
Traits: Run For Your Life! Technically Adept, Forgetful, Impulsive, Phobia (Snakes)
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Post by infinitydoctor on May 4, 2011 7:22:53 GMT
@mark Anthony Quested:
I sent an email to Sales (and included the order numbers and contents) and copied Angus in on it. They processed it within a few days and the response they sent was nice.
To be honest, they come across as good folks who really have suffered a few setbacks, that's why I don't generally rage at them - if it wasn't for the fact that I couldn't be sure WHEN the damn stuff would turn up, I would have left the pre-order standing - or if it was just one item, but I had ordered a fair amount of stuff and didn't like the idea of that amount of cash standing unused indefinitely.
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Post by neilcford on May 5, 2011 12:15:07 GMT
The webstore has been updated this week and pre-orders are now only being taken when a product has been sent to the printers and we are reasonably confident of a release date (printing and delivery problems aside).
The DW:AiTaS products are currently showing "Summer 2011" and are not yet available for pre-order. Obviously any existing pre-orders will be honoured.
- Neil.
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Rassilon
Administrator
Grand Administrator
Posts: 751
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Post by Rassilon on May 5, 2011 15:42:41 GMT
I'll add that kaemaril has chosen to delete his account himself, in case anyone assumes he was banned -he wasn't. He is welcome here any time he wants to return, in a different regeneration or his old guise.
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Post by baradthedwarf on May 5, 2011 17:42:09 GMT
Thanks for the answer neil
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drnate
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 30
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Post by drnate on May 9, 2011 18:36:27 GMT
Part of me wonders if the lack of product for people to buy means that C7 isn't making any money from the license. Doctor Who can't be a cheap license. And I wonder if that means when it is time to renew the license, they will see that the cost of the license outweighs the profit made on the three products that have been released so far, and drop the whole thing.
No new product gives me extra time to develop paranoid theories.
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Post by ugavine on May 11, 2011 11:35:14 GMT
You need to sell a product to profit from it.
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sirus
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 48
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Post by sirus on May 11, 2011 22:55:57 GMT
And considering how many awards the original got and how highly it ws praised. I doubt very much this has to do with profits.
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Post by jeffrywith1e on May 12, 2011 17:43:19 GMT
You're mistaken. I've lost something else: I've almost completely lost interest. Wow. That is me, too.
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Post by ugavine on May 13, 2011 9:28:13 GMT
You're mistaken. I've lost something else: I've almost completely lost interest. Wow. That is me, too. And THIS is exactly the problem. There are so many great games out there at the moment that by not releasing product C7 have turned their customers towards another company. Once those players start investing in another game they will be reluctant to go backwards, and as DW RPG is now 18+ months old they will see it as going backwards. I really do fear that these delays have done nothing but harm the game and it has certianly damaged customer confidence in C7.
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Post by Rel Fexive on May 14, 2011 10:18:35 GMT
So people never go "back" to old (as if 18 months is 'old'!) games to play them again? Even if they really like them? You must all live in a very strange world. A world with no patience, or where the past is so dead you probably don't even remember last week. Weird.
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