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Post by imajica on Apr 18, 2011 10:20:49 GMT
In the meantime, however, you don't need a printer to release a PDF. That's true, you don't. But, if it hadn't already been planned, I'd imagine you'd want to think carefully about releasing a PDF of your product months in advance ... I know they did it for A&C, but I don't know if C7 ever mentioned whether they felt releasing the PDF early impacted on their physical sales positively or negatively. Would they rather have no cash from a physical sale that's perpetually delayed or the income from a PDF that's available and being purchased?
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 18, 2011 11:16:08 GMT
That's true, you don't. But, if it hadn't already been planned, I'd imagine you'd want to think carefully about releasing a PDF of your product months in advance ... I know they did it for A&C, but I don't know if C7 ever mentioned whether they felt releasing the PDF early impacted on their physical sales positively or negatively. Would they rather have no cash from a physical sale that's perpetually delayed or the income from a PDF that's available and being purchased? Depends entirely on whether you need the money now or can afford to wait until your product is finally released, doesn't it? If you need the money now, I guess it makes sense to release and hope that the digital product doesn't impact sales of the physical product too badly (or at all, ideally). On the other hand, if you can afford to wait do you want to release a digital product that will get you x income now, but might cost you more than x in lost sales when the physical product comes out?
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Post by kingkaddish on Apr 19, 2011 12:47:56 GMT
Man this [REALLY] sucks! I was excited and had been looking forward to the new boxed set "supposedly" being released this month...
So do we have any "unofficial" statements or hints as to when the boxed will be released then?
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Post by dragoncymru on Apr 19, 2011 13:36:29 GMT
Man this [REALLY] sucks! I was excited and had been looking forward to the new boxed set "supposedly" being released this month... So do we have any "unofficial" statements or hints as to when the boxed will be released then? Nope
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 19, 2011 17:53:40 GMT
Man this [REALLY] sucks! I was excited and had been looking forward to the new boxed set "supposedly" being released this month... So do we have any "unofficial" statements or hints as to when the boxed will be released then? Dominic has stated that he hopes to get all the products out by August (presumably box set, GM screen, DTE and TTC). Strikes me as ambitious, but you never know. Neil Ford is apparently trying to get us something more concrete.
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skree
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 21
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Post by skree on Apr 19, 2011 20:27:40 GMT
For what it is worth according to amazon.com and frpgames.com the 11th doctor edition is to be released 5/25
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Post by imajica on Apr 23, 2011 10:57:33 GMT
Amazon UK's got nothing. And until I see something on the Esdevium Games new releases list, I'm believing nothing.
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 23, 2011 14:19:57 GMT
Amazon UK's got nothing. And until I see something on the Esdevium Games new releases list, I'm believing nothing. This. Though my 'go to' source is usually Leisure Games' release list, rather than EG Though if the game does come out on that date I will be both pleased ... and quite angry.
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Post by dragoncymru on Apr 27, 2011 5:52:49 GMT
And as Time marches on....any more news or has it gone very quiet again?
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Post by imajica on Apr 27, 2011 7:27:28 GMT
We've just had a long Bank Holiday weekend, so things have gone very quiet. I don't have a lot of faith in the future of this game now.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,246
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Apr 28, 2011 8:04:15 GMT
I don't have a lot of faith in the future of this game now. I'm not quite at that point yet, but I do feel that DWAITAS has been slipping way down in C7's priorities. They've announced they'll be releasing over 100 titles this year, and yet for DWAITAS there's stuff which has now been delayed by a year (Defending the Earth, The Time Travellers Companion). They just don't seem to be resourced for that scale of output if they can't cope with stuff that should have been out last year. And I don't buy into the theories that delays are down to the BBC. Look at Panini, who manage to get DWM out on time every four weeks, plus 2-3 specials a year. Or Big Finish, who release a minimum of 2, usually 3, and sometimes 4 Doctor Who related audios every month, all of which require BBC approval and very few of which are delayed. I know C7 are having to rebrand for the 11th Doctor, but the BBC announced the rebranding back in 2009 and it's been live since early 2010. I'm sure that other Forum members will be along to post in C7's defence, but even setting aside whether or not the delays are justified, where is the communication to tell us what is happening? Their store still lists the 11th Doctor Edition for an April release and yet we KNOW that's not happening. Worse still, they show it as In Stock - misleading at best. Zero out of ten for communications, Cubicle 7! OK, rant over... for now!
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Post by imajica on Apr 28, 2011 9:18:58 GMT
I'm not quite at that point yet I remember the delays around Eden Studio's "Welcome to Sunnydale". Delays that eventually resulted in the game line coming to an end and taking with it any future supplements for both Buffy and Angel. I really, honestly hope this isn't the case here and that between now and August they get the lot released. When all else is lost, there's always hope.
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 28, 2011 10:10:08 GMT
I'm sure that other Forum members will be along to post in C7's defence Not me. I agree with everything you say, and have been quite vocal about it for some time now ;D
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Post by starkllr on Apr 28, 2011 16:34:32 GMT
The lack of communication from C7 is by far the most frustrating thing.
I understand the issues they've got to deal with, being a small company. I realize that the BBC approval process is probably horrendous, and that they either flat out aren't allowed to come out and say that, or at least they're justifiably hesitant to publicly say anything that might be taken the wrong way.
But here's the thing. For most of us, there's a limited amount of time and also money that we can commit to gaming. If a supplement we're looking to use in our game is delayed, maybe we'll just wing it ourselves (or borrow from the write-ups, plot seeds, etc that are posted on this and other forums), spend that $30 or $50 we'd set aside for the Time Traveller's Companion or Defending the Earth on another game that catches our eye...and when C7 is finally able to release the supplements, some of us who would have bought them...won't.
Not out of spite, but because we spent our gaming budget on something else, and because we're already running our game and we've come up with our own material and we don't need the supplement.
The almost total lack of communication and any kind of updates makes that a lot more likely outcome, at least for me. And that's a shame, because I was really looking forward to the Time Traveller's Companion, and especially to the previous Doctor box sets that are also planned.
Please, C7, TALK TO US! You're smart people, surely you can figure out some way to give us information about when products might realistically be coming out, without upsetting the BBC or the license terms. Can't you?
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Post by olegrand on Apr 28, 2011 17:06:42 GMT
Mmmh... this sure doesn't look very promising. I hope that the new edition and, above all, the supplements will make it to the shelves this year - otherwise I fear the game will die a quiet death, before it got the chance to fulfill its amazing potential (well, at least as far as commercial products are concerned - if FASA's RPG and Virgin's Timelord managed to retain a dedicated fan-base, then DWAITAS will probably do so... but it would really be sad to see it become a short-lived cult game.
Handling such a big license surely involves many difficulties and restrictions (editorially, commercially and "communicationally" speaking)... but, from a strictly "customer / gamer" point of view, the situation feels a bit as if C7 was deliberately ignoring its REAL customer-base, gamers who already know what RPGs are all about and who really, really want to play a good, simple, story-oriented Doctor Who RPG, as opposed to, say, DW fans who've never played a RPG, would discover the wonders of gaming through DWAITAS - provided it has the latest logo on it. If the idea really was to make a major commercial success aimed at non-gamers, then the project was flawed from the beginning, since the DWAITAS rules are obviously NOT geared toward the complete neophytes - at least as far as GMing is concerned; while they are extremely simple and work well in play, they also require a good deal of GMing experience and "sagacity" to work as intended - as examplified by the VERY flexible and open-to-interpretation rules on Story points. This mechanic alone, which plays a crucial part in DWAITAS, makes this a "gamer's game".
I think that part of the problem comes from the fact that this game is obviously aimed at gamers (a good thing, don't get me wrong) - and gamers are fans at heart- especially those interested in licensed RPGs.
Yet, despite being written for fans, DWAITAS seems to follow a PR/communication plan (or lack thereof) more consistent with a "mass audience" product aimed at customers who don't need to be informed about the advancement of the project or to feel "part" of the whole thing and will buy the stuff when it comes out.
So let's hope we'll see some new products before the end of the Summer! Or at least get some news - even if it's bad news.
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 28, 2011 21:12:15 GMT
Wow. I see that NeilFord, Cubicle 7's community manager, has closed down the thread Dwaitas Eleventh Doctor Ed ... still on for April? on the grounds that "As people seem incapable of being civil, this thread is being closed." I guess where NeilFord sees 'incivility' I see robust (but still relatively polite, trust me I've seen a lot worse) criticism of Cubicle 7 and their behaviour when it comes to their communication (or lack thereof) with their customers. And, quite frankly, they deserve that criticism. He had time to communicate that the thread was being shut down, but apparently not enough time to answer a simple question that I had raised back on March 26th, or to answer a simple Yes/No question (has the boxset been sent to the printer yet?) or to communicate the results of the telephone call he said he was going to make back on April 18th (ten days ago), or to explain why a product was still being advertised in their online store as being available in April when it was blindingly obvious, as of April 28th, that no such product was available... Good move on the part of the Community Manager, there, C7. Way to inspire.
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infinitydoctor
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 116
Favourite Doctors: 2nd and 4th
Traits: Run For Your Life! Technically Adept, Forgetful, Impulsive, Phobia (Snakes)
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Post by infinitydoctor on Apr 28, 2011 21:36:42 GMT
Good move on the part of the Community Manager, there, C7. Way to inspire. Well, so far, they've pretty much failed on all levels Community-wise. I really couldn't see any justification for locking that thread beyond just not wanting to answer the questions you asked though. To be honest, I gave up on C7's forums ages ago - they've never hit a release date and they never want to talk about it when they're pulled up about it. I cancelled all of my pre-orders with C7 a while back (and to be fair, they didn't quibble, I got all the money back without a problem.) For the Doctor Who rpg, you're best off just posting here. (I've been reading these forums for a while, but only just joined, since I'm about to get my own Dr Who campaign off the ground, and this seems like a cool place to exchange ideas ....)
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Post by Escher on Apr 28, 2011 21:45:41 GMT
I couldn't see any reason to lock that thread either. No doubt it will serve to frustrate people even more.
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Post by dragoncymru on Apr 28, 2011 22:11:09 GMT
Ouch - why close the thread with no real reason? It didn't seem particularly heated or accusing to me, just people who want to spend money on a product and wanting to know when it will come out.
I mean, we are the customers here, right?
We're here because we want to support it.... so treating us like this doesn't build bridges and encourage good relations.
Why don't they just answer some questions? They're on the forum so they have 'time' to spend a minute or two specifying release dates and denying ruumours - so why not...?
I'm afraid, like others, I'm starting to smell a rat...
..played by Stuart Fell, no doubt ;D
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,246
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Apr 29, 2011 8:02:50 GMT
As one of the contributors to that thread, I've PMed Neil to ask him why he feels we were being uncivil. I can see no justification myself.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Apr 29, 2011 9:38:44 GMT
I imagine everyone involved with that thread (and the delays one) has been feeling frustrated, both on the no-communication and too-much-communication side. Frustration can lead to unwise decisions.
Try to remember the days when the first we heard of a game's release was when it was released, and don't be so demanding. If they haven't actually taken your money yet, you've lost nothing but time.
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 29, 2011 10:22:57 GMT
I imagine everyone involved with that thread (and the delays one) has been feeling frustrated, both on the no-communication and too-much-communication side. Frustration can lead to unwise decisions. Try to remember the days when the first we heard of a game's release was when it was released, and don't be so demanding. Ah, yes. The pre-internet days when companies didn't try to build 'communities' around their products with such wacky things as forums, newsletters, twitter feeds, facebook pages ... Oops. C7 do all that. I guess in the case of Doctor Who they must just want a community that has the good taste to kindly keep quiet until C7 deign to offer you a product. Then you can talk about it on another forum somewhere, but then kindly shut up and wait for the next product to arrive six or seven months (or more) after we told you it was going to arrive. Frankly, although I can see where it would be frustrating for C7, they should consider themselves damn lucky that, after three years filled with almost nothing but waits, some of their customers still care enough to be 'demanding'. You're mistaken. I've lost something else: I've almost completely lost interest. When the game was launched I was mega-enthusiastic about it. Indeed, I bought one of the first copies at the charity auction at Dragonmeet. I eagerly grabbed more copies of the game when it was on the shelves finally so that when I was able to run a game at my local game club everyone had a copy of the Players guide. When I saw at my local mini-convention that nobody was running a game, and I realized I hadn't brought a copy with me I bought another copy just so I could quickly offer to run one of the adventures in the book ... When I offered a game at the local game club and was unsuccessful due to other games being more interesting, trendier, hipper or just more adult ('Doctor Who? That's for kids!', 'Doctor Who? I like the series, but from the reviews I've seen the system's too simple for my liking', 'I like Doctor Who, but I'd rather play D&D this month, thanks', 'Doctor Who? That's a bit trad. I prefer Hot War, thanks', and so on - limited resources and rooms mean we can only offer three or four games at a time) I offered the game again and again and again and again and again ... That's how enthusiastic I was. After seeing delay after delay after delay, and having to push and push C7 to even bother to offer any kind of explanation for delay after delay, I just ... almost don't care anymore. My interest in the line is hanging on by a thread and that's how they treat their customers? Frankly, there are other game systems out there that I'm interested in where, if there are delays, at least you don't get given the silent treatment for months at a time then told you're not being civil when you dare speak up and ask questions like 'Hey, how come it's the end of the month and your online store STILL says it's coming out this month. What gives?' If you want to keep quiet and just wait until the nice Cubicle 7 people send you a nice (but severely delayed) product that's your prerogative. Good luck with that. Me? I'm going to remember that saying about squeaky wheels getting the oil. And then, the way C7 are going, all the money I would have spent with them is going on Eclipse Phase, Duty & Honour, Earthdawn, Fading Suns, Pathfinder, Wild Talents, Star Trek (LUG), Dresden Files, Full Light Full Steam, and so on ...
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Post by imajica on Apr 29, 2011 10:57:57 GMT
Me, I'm done. Done with C7 completely. Just picked up my copy of Atomic Highway and I'm going to mod that to play Who with instead. No matter what they produce now, not one more penny of my gaming cash is going their way.
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 29, 2011 11:36:29 GMT
Done with C7 completely. Just picked up my copy of Atomic Highway From C7?
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Post by dragoncymru on Apr 29, 2011 11:52:53 GMT
I think I'm probably done too.
In today's market, not to support a game like this (especially in its' - longer than usual - infancy) is doomed to failure I'm afraid.
So sad, I was really looking forward to seeing the line flourish.
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Post by Siskoid on Apr 29, 2011 11:53:06 GMT
While new product is always nice, my interest and that of my players is not based on new product coming out. The game I probably played the most in the last 2 decades is Dream Park, based on the Niven, Barnes & Pournelle novel, and that had very few products come out, and none since the early 90s. And yet, we played well into the 2000s. I could play Doctor Who this summer or in 10 years, or FOR 10 years regardless of new product coming out.
It would be nice, because I'm a fan of both the game and the show, but by no means is it affecting my role-playing habits.
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 29, 2011 12:00:16 GMT
As one of the contributors to that thread, I've PMed Neil to ask him why he feels we were being uncivil. I can see no justification myself. I don't know if you'll get a reply or not, but this was just posted: What. The. Hell.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Apr 29, 2011 12:09:13 GMT
Bye then.
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Post by kaemaril on Apr 29, 2011 12:11:42 GMT
I could play Doctor Who this summer or in 10 years, or FOR 10 years regardless of new product coming out. I wish I could. Right now the guys I game with are showing no interest in Who, and that's after 18 months. I'm still trying, and hope spring eternal ... I was kinda hoping that a rebadged set, along with the new series, might generate even a little spark of interest I could try to build on ... Of course, that's rather predicated on having a rebadget set while the new series is out, and that rather depended on a timely* release. And that, as with every DWAITAS release so far, is looking less and less and less likely ... Sooner or later I'm just gonna go 'F#ck it, who's for (insert new game here)?' And it's looking increasingly like it's gonna be sooner rather than later. I think I'm more or less done with Cubicle 7. * well, I say timely ... you guys remember when this was gonna be a November release, right?
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Post by imajica on Apr 29, 2011 12:35:33 GMT
Done with C7 completely. Just picked up my copy of Atomic Highway From C7? Copy from the Radioactive Ape himself, before he signed the C7 deal. The irony of switching to something else C7 sell has not escaped me.
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