[Scenario Seed/Location] The Borderland

[Catsmate]

An odd little idea that's been percolating around in my mind.

A long, long, long time ago They  rampaged through the Local Group¹ of galaxies, ravaging, killing and enslaving.
After a period of mass warfare and death Something stopped Them, quite possibly exterminating Them; no-one is quite sure what (or who) it was, they didn't hang around to answer questions, and a place emerged (or was created) for the refugees and survivors.
It’s called the Borderland.

Most of it’s inhabitants aren’t quite sure what the Borderland actually is, it’s more than a city but less than a planet; it’s a pretty big place, sprawling atop a cluster of barren mountains, their interiors a mass of caves and tunnels, some natural and many not, connected by bridges, walkways and wormholes.
It's stuck outside 'normal' space-time, in some sort of pocket universe.

It’s a violent place, populated by scatterings of poorly adjusted refugees from the numerous worlds destroyed by Them, a mess of species and motivations, including slavers and thieves.
Mostly the Borderland was ignored, until some of the inhabitants learned how to leave their pocket universe and reach elsewhere. Including a minor planet in a lesser spiral arm of one of those galaxies, a place the locals call Earth.


Comments? Suggestions? Ideas?



1. The Local Group is a number of galaxies associated together in space; it consists of three large galaxies (Andromeda, our own Milky Way [or Mutter's Spiral] and the Triangulum Galaxy), plus around fifty much-smaller dwarf galaxies.

[soultaker666212]

I like this place, I do want to know who Them are though, however certainly an interesting place, I can see shanty homes piled up on top of each other like skyscrapers inside of a large carven, cavern tunnels full on market stalls with refugees selling some of their possessions to earn a little to survive, slaves working and mining to expand the caverns out for more people to arrive, local warlords and gangs taking control over some territory which only then leads to the occasional gang fights, technology from various different species (and eras) mixed together to keep the place running, propaganda posters depicting a better future for all despite the slum like conditions around them, a refugee processing area for incoming refugees where you'll have to pay to get a good position within The Borderlands.  Defo a place you do not want to live in despite the war with Them going on. 

[grinch]

I almost wonder if the reason behind the ambiguous identity of Them is due to one or two things. Could it possibly be that the inhabitants of the Borderlands train themselves not to remember or even think too long of them (perhaps they may have even wiped their own memories?) lest they somehow summon them forth or conjure them into existence.

Whether this is merely superstition or a tangible fact is entirely up to the discretion of the GM, of course. Your PCs digging around into the history of the place may accidentally summon forth a horde of unstoppable alien conquerers!

[soultaker666212]

Aug 7, 2022 19:22:46 GMT grinch said:

I almost wonder if the reason behind the ambiguous identity of Them is due to one or two things. Could it possibly be that the inhabitants of the Borderlands train themselves not to remember or even think too long of them (perhaps they may have even wiped their own memories?) lest they somehow summon them forth or conjure them into existence.

Whether this is merely superstition or a tangible fact is entirely up to the discretion of the GM, of course. Your PCs digging around into the history of the place may accidentally summon forth a horde of unstoppable alien conquerers!

I can see Them being the Daleks though the only real logical one here as the identity of Them, but I like the idea of the inhabitants not even saying the name of their enemy, kinda like how wizards in Harry Potter do not say Voldemort and just say He who shall not be named, I can see the inhabitants use Them for their enemy, most likely the Daleks. 

[Catsmate]

Aug 7, 2022 18:30:07 GMT soultaker666212 said:

I like this place, I do want to know who Them are though, however certainly an interesting place, I can see shanty homes piled up on top of each other like skyscrapers inside of a large carven, cavern tunnels full on market stalls with refugees selling some of their possessions to earn a little to survive, slaves working and mining to expand the caverns out for more people to arrive, local warlords and gangs taking control over some territory which only then leads to the occasional gang fights, technology from various different species (and eras) mixed together to keep the place running, propaganda posters depicting a better future for all despite the slum like conditions around them, a refugee processing area for incoming refugees where you'll have to pay to get a good position within The Borderlands.  Defo a place you do not want to live in despite the war with Them going on. 

Thanks!

Wrt Them, well I'm attempting (following some advice) not to over-describe every element of my ideas. They were (they're probably extinct now¹) something truly alien and nasty, back when the universe was rather younger.
Perhaps the Great Vampires. Perhaps entities from a prior universe that survived into this one. Perhaps the remnants of the Time Lords fleeing the end of this universe. Or the hordes of a renegade like Morbius.

Likewise whatever defeated Them, which I'm going to call the Others, should be but a distant memory today. Unless they're hiding behind their Transduction Barriers.

I envision the Borderland as odd. Something like the 'Infinite City' trope, it goes up, down, sideways and inter other dimensions when it can. Buildings perched on cliffs, and dug into rock by atomic powered mole machines, dynamite and steam, geneered worms and slave labour.

It's not a planet in the conventional sense. Perhaps a bit like the Glimmerdrift, or maybe an Alderson Disk².

Biologically the place is a mix of species, many of which are extinct outside. And many 'common' aliens are utterly unknown. Culturally it's even odder; empires and warlords, anarchistic communes and fueldalism, all side by side.
Technology is equally mixed, those dumped (or copied) into the Borderland were at levels from muscle to starfaring. Not all of the advanced technology could be sustained, or even preserved.
There is no controlling government, the Others take no interest (and don't ever seem to appear).

Take the example of human refugee/resettlement/DP camps after the wars and disasters and add an order of magnitude or two of chaos.

And then some bugger figures out how to drill temporary holes in reality. A few people, never large numbers, go outside to steal and trade. Bringing back visitors, slaves, drugs, diseases and trouble. And leaving behind desperate alien refugees, odd bits of technology, plus drugs, diseases and trouble.



1. Insert sinister sniggering here. 'That is not dead which can eternal lie' and so on. Which is rather appropriate as I think on it....

2. Wiki. Or read Stross's excellent Missile Gap. Which you can do here.

[soultaker666212]

Aug 7, 2022 19:28:16 GMT Catsmate said:

Aug 7, 2022 18:30:07 GMT soultaker666212 said:

I like this place, I do want to know who Them are though, however certainly an interesting place, I can see shanty homes piled up on top of each other like skyscrapers inside of a large carven, cavern tunnels full on market stalls with refugees selling some of their possessions to earn a little to survive, slaves working and mining to expand the caverns out for more people to arrive, local warlords and gangs taking control over some territory which only then leads to the occasional gang fights, technology from various different species (and eras) mixed together to keep the place running, propaganda posters depicting a better future for all despite the slum like conditions around them, a refugee processing area for incoming refugees where you'll have to pay to get a good position within The Borderlands.  Defo a place you do not want to live in despite the war with Them going on. 

Thanks!

Wrt Them, well I'm attempting (following some advice) not to over-describe every element of my ideas. They were (they're probably extinct now¹) something truly alien and nasty, back when the universe was rather younger.
Perhaps the Great Vampires. Perhaps entities from a prior universe that survived into this one. Perhaps the remnants of the Time Lords fleeing the end of this universe. Or the hordes of a renegade like Morbius.

Likewise whatever defeated Them, which I'm going to call the Others, should be but a distant memory today. Unless they're hiding behind their Transduction Barriers.

I envision the Borderland as odd. Something like the 'Infinite City' trope, it goes up, down, sideways and inter other dimensions when it can. Buildings perched on cliffs, and dug into rock by atomic powered mole machines, dynamite and steam, geneered worms and slave labour.

It's not a planet in the conventional sense. Perhaps a bit like the Glimmerdrift, or maybe an Alderson Disk².

Biologically the place is a mix of species, many of which are extinct outside. And many 'common' aliens are utterly unknown. Culturally it's even odder; empires and warlords, anarchistic communes and fueldalism, all side by side.
Technology is equally mixed, those dumped (or copied) into the Borderland were at levels from muscle to starfaring. Not all of the advanced technology could be sustained, or even preserved.
There is no controlling government, the Others take no interest (and don't ever seem to appear).

Take the example of human refugee/resettlement/DP camps after the wars and disasters and add an order of magnitude or two of chaos.

And then some bugger figures out how to drill temporary holes in reality. A few people, never large numbers, go outside to steal and trade. Bringing back visitors, slaves, drugs, diseases and trouble. And leaving behind desperate alien refugees, odd bits of technology, plus drugs, diseases and trouble.



1. Insert sinister sniggering here. 'That is not dead which can eternal lie' and so on. Which is rather appropriate as I think on it....

2. Wiki. Or read Stross's excellent Missile Gap. Which you can do here.

I honestly get New York City vibes from this though, especially within fiction but also in real life as well, does seem like an interesting location though, maybe an entire district for robots and androids and cyborgs to live in including various stages of cybermen both past present future and alternate dimension styles, Movellans, Taran and Kraal androids etc might make an apperance here and there. I do love this infinite city though but defo embrace a kind of dilatated and ramshackle feel to it maybe large skyscraper like towers that are rusted and with thing attached to the side, Favelas like the ones in South America running up along the cave walls, a castle made from old starship parts fit for a would-be king, a small combat arena made from chain-link fences with barbed wire at the top, a large junkyard filled with mutated rats where scavengers come and go to find technology maybe even some crazy folks have claimed a kingdom within the junkyard, wrecks of larger drilling machines lay dormant and turned into rudimentary homes, drug labs out in the open with an entire black market of stalls selling drugs from off worlds made within the drug labs, a massive ocean of chemical waste that sailors fish for mutated fish on scrap boats to feed themselves and their families, maybe even a few islands within this chemical waste ocean where crime lords and chem pirates live. Just some ideas here. 

[grinch]

For some reason, I rather like the idea that The Others are located within the centre of the Borderlands. And it’s their presence which gives the place its strange spatial properties. Whether they’re hiding/dormant or have deliberately chosen to isolate themselves would be up to the GM.

Unless your PCs wanted to mount a full on planetary excavation of the Borderlands (unlikely) I’m not sure how you’d incorporate it into an adventure. Maybe it could just pop up in the event they scan the entire planet that something or something(s) make up the core of the place before vanishing just as quickly.

[Catsmate]

Aug 7, 2022 19:22:46 GMT grinch said:

I almost wonder if the reason behind the ambiguous identity of Them is due to one or two things. Could it possibly be that the inhabitants of the Borderlands train themselves not to remember or even think too long of them (perhaps they may have even wiped their own memories?) lest they somehow summon them forth or conjure them into existence.

Whether this is merely superstition or a tangible fact is entirely up to the discretion of the GM, of course. Your PCs digging around into the history of the place may accidentally summon forth a horde of unstoppable alien conquerers!

Or had their memories wiped for them...
Or the appearance of Them is sufficient to damage minds.


I'd intended for the Borderland to be an artefact from long ago, before most of the 'current' species had evolved (maybe an early Earth Reptile though).

[grinch]

Aug 7, 2022 19:43:47 GMT Catsmate said:

Aug 7, 2022 19:22:46 GMT grinch said:

I almost wonder if the reason behind the ambiguous identity of Them is due to one or two things. Could it possibly be that the inhabitants of the Borderlands train themselves not to remember or even think too long of them (perhaps they may have even wiped their own memories?) lest they somehow summon them forth or conjure them into existence.

Whether this is merely superstition or a tangible fact is entirely up to the discretion of the GM, of course. Your PCs digging around into the history of the place may accidentally summon forth a horde of unstoppable alien conquerers!

Or had their memories wiped for them...
Or the appearance of Them is sufficient to damage minds.


I'd intended for the Borderland to be an artefact from long ago, before most of the 'current' species had evolved (maybe an early Earth Reptile though).

Nice idea of Them being akin to Lovecraftian monstrosities. There’s probably not a race alive now that could fully comprehend them hence why people struggle to remember or even describe them.

An Earth Reptile or Eternal might be able to though. Of course, it might damage some of the mental functions of the former to the point it affects their psychic abilities. 

[soultaker666212]

Kinda grim actually, entire generations of species only knowing the cavernous ceiling instead of the starry night sky from their respective home worlds.

[grinch]

Aug 7, 2022 20:01:37 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Kinda grim actually, entire generations of species only knowing the cavernous ceiling instead of the starry night sky from their respective home worlds.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Brings to mind Plato’s old allegory of the Cave.

[soultaker666212]

Aug 7, 2022 20:32:24 GMT grinch said:

Aug 7, 2022 20:01:37 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Kinda grim actually, entire generations of species only knowing the cavernous ceiling instead of the starry night sky from their respective home worlds.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Brings to mind Plato’s old allegory of the Cave.

Yes I forgot about that! Perfect allegory for something lime this!

[soultaker666212]

Do you think the Borderlands would take Refugees from The Last Great Time War as well?

[soultaker666212]

Also do you think the Borderland is a TARDIS or a collection of TARDISes put together?

[Catsmate]

Aug 7, 2022 20:01:37 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Kinda grim actually, entire generations of species only knowing the cavernous ceiling instead of the starry night sky from their respective home worlds.

For The World is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky comes to mind, or the numerous post-holocaust works.

[Catsmate]

Aug 7, 2022 21:06:03 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Also do you think the Borderland is a TARDIS or a collection of TARDISes put together?

Aug 7, 2022 20:45:57 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Do you think the Borderlands would take Refugees from The Last Great Time War as well?

Neither of these had occurred to me.
The actual nature of the Borderland I envisioned as a pocket universe, though technologically that's similar to a TARDIS.
I'd also assumed that it was a one off, used early in the universe for a particular conflict.

[soultaker666212]

Aug 7, 2022 21:11:45 GMT Catsmate said:

Aug 7, 2022 21:06:03 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Also do you think the Borderland is a TARDIS or a collection of TARDISes put together?

Aug 7, 2022 20:45:57 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Do you think the Borderlands would take Refugees from The Last Great Time War as well?

Neither of these had occurred to me.
The actual nature of the Borderland I envisioned as a pocket universe, though technologically that's similar to a TARDIS.
I'd also assumed that it was a one off, used early in the universe for a particular conflict.

A special type of TARDIS perhaps? 

[soultaker666212]

The way I interpret the Borderlands feels more like its a TARDIS specially built for this purpose disguised as a large mountain with perception filters on it perhaps. Them being the Daleks as the Borderland is a refuge for folks in The Last Great Time War from both the past, present and future, contains folks from all species, designed and initially run by the Timelords but when they disappeared it turned into the slum and dilapidated conditions it is in, forgotten about still accepting refugees perhaps, maybe even Nestenes could make an apperance here after their home world was destroyed. It still remains cavernous but like overtime these scrap and junk buildings have been built on top of older buildings or been built in shantytowns within the caverns, areas dedicated to certain gangs or feudal warlords or would-be dictators and kings, wormhole travel akin to The Tube might be interesting here as well. Again I just love the idea of a large chemical waste ocean made up of old ship fluid or dangerous chemicals etc with people going in on specially designed boats to fish for mutated fish, but avoiding chem pirates and other cartels who have their own private islands within the chem ocean. A bastion to save folks from the most devastating conflict ever has now turned into a bastion of decay and rot and crime, a hive of scum and villainy if to borrow a line from another franchise.

[soultaker666212]

Aug 7, 2022 19:28:16 GMT Catsmate said:

Biologically the place is a mix of species, many of which are extinct outside. 

Come to think about it, based on this do you think the Jagoroth would have survived within The Borderlands?

[Catsmate]

Aug 8, 2022 5:30:16 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Aug 7, 2022 19:28:16 GMT Catsmate said:

Biologically the place is a mix of species, many of which are extinct outside. 

Come to think about it, based on this do you think the Jagoroth would have survived within The Borderlands?

Nice one, I'd forgotten about them. Yes they'd be a good example of creatures who may have been saved, along with others from the Fledgling Empire period, back when the universe was young. I'm reminded of:

We Time Lords transcended such simple mechanical devices when the universe was less than half its present size.

[soultaker666212]

Aug 8, 2022 10:00:14 GMT Catsmate said:

Aug 8, 2022 5:30:16 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Come to think about it, based on this do you think the Jagoroth would have survived within The Borderlands?

Nice one, I'd forgotten about them. Yes they'd be a good example of creatures who may have been saved, along with others from the Fledgling Empire period, back when the universe was young. I'm reminded of:

We Time Lords transcended such simple mechanical devices when the universe was less than half its present size.

Wait you said that there was refugees who later found Earth, what if it was the Jagaroth who found Earth. Maybe an incarnation of Scaroth has found away to contact the Jagaroth from inside of the Borderlands and told them to come get him and invade Earth perhaps?

[grinch]

The Borderlands reminds me a bit of my The Cradle idea now that I think about it. Albeit that only came into existence come the outbreak of the Time War and the all powerful Caretakers are far more proactive in the running of the Cradle than the Others.

In fact, and this might be changing it slightly but maybe the Borderlands was repurposed by the Caretakers and ultimately would become the Cradle later on?

[Catsmate]

Aug 8, 2022 10:06:41 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Aug 8, 2022 10:00:14 GMT Catsmate said:

Nice one, I'd forgotten about them. Yes they'd be a good example of creatures who may have been saved, along with others from the Fledgling Empire period, back when the universe was young. I'm reminded of:

Wait you said that there was refugees who later found Earth, what if it was the Jagaroth who found Earth. Maybe an incarnation of Scaroth has found away to contact the Jagaroth from inside of the Borderlands and told them to come get him and invade Earth perhaps?

I'd envisaged the wormholes to Earth as being in the hands of more criminal types. Of course once the Jagaroth learn of the opportunity......

[Catsmate]

Aug 8, 2022 11:43:35 GMT grinch said:

The Borderlands reminds me a bit of my The Cradle idea now that I think about it. Albeit that only came into existence come the outbreak of the Time War and the all powerful Caretakers are far more proactive in the running of the Cradle than the Others.

In fact, and this might be changing it slightly but maybe the Borderlands was repurposed by the Caretakers and ultimately would become the Cradle later on?

Go ahead.
If the Others were proto-Time Lords their motivations could have been as much cleaning up an embarrassing mess as anything else. Someone else could later use it, and probably better too.

[soultaker666212]

Aug 8, 2022 18:23:00 GMT Catsmate said:

Aug 8, 2022 10:06:41 GMT soultaker666212 said:

Wait you said that there was refugees who later found Earth, what if it was the Jagaroth who found Earth. Maybe an incarnation of Scaroth has found away to contact the Jagaroth from inside of the Borderlands and told them to come get him and invade Earth perhaps?

I'd envisaged the wormholes to Earth as being in the hands of more criminal types. Of course once the Jagaroth learn of the opportunity......

The Jagaroth were war-like and unpleasant, criminal Jagaroth could just as easily do it still.