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Post by Nyder on Feb 22, 2020 17:35:23 GMT
What did you think of it?
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Post by markrand on Feb 22, 2020 22:08:50 GMT
I will be watching it next Monday. That way, since I DVR the program, I can watch both parts the same day.
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Post by ninjaconor on Feb 23, 2020 20:29:00 GMT
I'll say Great for now. It was a really good episode, I really liked the general tone of it, and I'm intrigued by all the mysteries. As an Irish person, the Irish stereotypes were a little cringey, but I've seen much, much worse (Star Trek: Voyager, looking at you). I think they could have just thrown us a little bit of a bone more to tie everything together though. Like, I'm really excited for the next one, but not because of the stakes of the story, because they really didn't give me enough information to know what the stakes are.
Basically, I think it's a very hard episode to judge on its own, and I think next week's resolution will be the deciding factor on if it's a really clever build-up to a brilliant reveal or just scattergun mystery plot-points.
I did really, really love the new Cyberman design though! Very 1980s.
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thereviewer
3rd Incarnation
Posts: 278 
Favourite Doctors: Jodie Whittaker, Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi, David Tennant, Christopher Eccelston, John Hurt, Paul McGann, Sylvester McCoy, Peter Davison, Tom Baker, William Hartnell
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Post by thereviewer on Feb 24, 2020 2:22:34 GMT
I’m gonna half-agree with Ninjaconor here. It seems a bit to early for me to decide whether or not to give this an Amazing score or not. One thing that can’t be denied though is that this year has seen many returns. The Master, Jack Harkness, the Judoon, the Cybermen, even mentions of old foes like the Toymaker and the Guardians. In my opinion, Chibnall delivered on the return of many old characters which was something last season lacked outside of the episode with the P’ting which had cameos from previous-era monsters. I might also be biased as one of the characters shares my name. I won’t say which one though  . And I did find that entrance at the end amazing. I also loved the cause-and-effect of how every step forward was countered by the Cybermen. The Doctor starts by bringing out a force-field and ALL Cybermen Weakness, the Cybermen sent out drones. The group manages to get to a Cyberman War Ship, the Cybermen reveal that they have sleeper agents. You get the idea. It felt that there was a natural response and I will admit that these new Cybermen design were a nice blend of the 1980s-Era Cybermen and the Modern-Who Cybermen. I think next time we might get a Name of the Doctor-style case where The Timeless Children might not be the literal premise of the episode, but a red herring to sub-text. Or I could be wrong. You never know. I’ve been wrong before. I fully admit. But hey, at least this year we’ll have Christmas with The Doctor once more. I have a feeling though that not everybody is gonna make it out alive. Physically or mentally though. As someone who is half-Irish on my Mother’s side of the family, I don’t see the stereotyping. Was it that they weren’t good with machines? If it is, I apologize, but I don’t see it. I dunno, maybe it’s because I’m American, maybe it’s because I haven’t had time to get into my family tree, but please, in all seriousness; help me understand. For everyone’s sake. BTW: Am I the only one who thought of Broadchurch with the subplot of Brendan with him falling off a cliff onto a beach? Well played, Mister Chibnall, well played. |
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Post by ninjaconor on Feb 24, 2020 9:02:23 GMT
As someone who is half-Irish on my Mother’s side of the family, I don’t see the stereotyping. Was it that they weren’t good with machines? If it is, I apologize, but I don’t see it. I dunno, maybe it’s because I’m American, maybe it’s because I haven’t had time to get into my family tree, but please, in all seriousness; help me understand. For everyone’s sake. It's a lot of things. The constant fiddle music, the red hair, the style of dress, that saturated "Ireland" camera filter TV shows always use,the lack of any kind of visible technological development even though we see several decades of Brendan's life. It's a weird romanticised version of the country that you typically see in American productions, made by people who've never been to Ireland but have heard stories from their grandparents. Being filmed essentially next door to us, I wouldn't have expected the same kind of stuff from Doctor Who,but the BBC does have past form for trotting out the stereotypes. There was a big controversy a few years back where they did an Eastenders plot set in Ireland that was nothing short of racist. This episode was nowhere near as bad as that case though and was more naive than offensive. Maybe there's plot reasons for it or something. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now. |
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thereviewer
3rd Incarnation
Posts: 278
Favourite Doctors: Jodie Whittaker, Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi, David Tennant, Christopher Eccelston, John Hurt, Paul McGann, Sylvester McCoy, Peter Davison, Tom Baker, William Hartnell
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Post by thereviewer on Feb 24, 2020 10:48:17 GMT
As someone who is half-Irish on my Mother’s side of the family, I don’t see the stereotyping. Was it that they weren’t good with machines? If it is, I apologize, but I don’t see it. I dunno, maybe it’s because I’m American, maybe it’s because I haven’t had time to get into my family tree, but please, in all seriousness; help me understand. For everyone’s sake. It's a lot of things. The constant fiddle music, the red hair, the style of dress, that saturated "Ireland" camera filter TV shows always use,the lack of any kind of visible technological development even though we see several decades of Brendan's life. It's a weird romanticised version of the country that you typically see in American productions, made by people who've never been to Ireland but have heard stories from their grandparents. Being filmed essentially next door to us, I wouldn't have expected the same kind of stuff from Doctor Who,but the BBC does have past form for trotting out the stereotypes. There was a big controversy a few years back where they did an Eastenders plot set in Ireland that was nothing short of racist. This episode was nowhere near as bad as that case though and was more naive than offensive. Maybe there's plot reasons for it or something. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now. OK. I can see where you would be offended by that, but I do thank you for acknowledging that this isn't anything new from TV, BBC or not. To call back to your first post, I haven't watched Voyager but given what I know about it from word of mouth, it doesn't surprise me and I can believe that it was much worse there versus here. So I thank you for being fair on this one, and just being all "I don't like it because this one thing ruined it entirely for me!" kind of deal which unfortunately is the modern critic's method in our day and age. It seems unfortunately like despite our advancement in technology, people forget about these things that have happened before and try to pass it on as something that is just starting, and that's something that REALLY grinds my gears in fandom these days. So I thank you for acknowledging that these things are nothing new and not trying to pretend that it was something that just started. Again, I don't know if you watched Broadchurch but I had flashbacks watching Brendan's fall off the cliff. As for next week, I'm still betting that we're going to get a Name of the Doctor type of finale where the title of the episode is a red herring to another thing. It seems to me like Chibnall is playing the long-game similar to Matt Smith's tenure with the mystery of The Silence and how his run as The Doctor ended in the full-reveal of the cracks in the universe. But like I said, I could be wrong. But I have enjoyed this season a lot more than last year's. Again, I didn't hate it, but it felt more like modern Who having the returning characters appearing and referenced. |
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Post by imajica on Feb 24, 2020 18:39:29 GMT
Undecided about this episode. Mind you, I'm writing this as I'm watching it. Surely the last of humanity ends with the Toclafane or did all of that get undone by Martha? The big cyber ship had a feel of a Borg cube about it (or is it that Borg cubes have a feel of cyber ships?)
One of my lads did wonder why the Lone Cyberman had an ARC reactor?
And I'm still not convinced by the new Master.
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thereviewer
3rd Incarnation
Posts: 278
Favourite Doctors: Jodie Whittaker, Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi, David Tennant, Christopher Eccelston, John Hurt, Paul McGann, Sylvester McCoy, Peter Davison, Tom Baker, William Hartnell
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Post by thereviewer on Feb 24, 2020 20:00:05 GMT
Undecided about this episode. Mind you, I'm writing this as I'm watching it. Surely the last of humanity ends with the Toclafane or did all of that get undone by Martha? The big cyber ship had a feel of a Borg cube about it (or is it that Borg cubes have a feel of cyber ships?) One of my lads did wonder why the Lone Cyberman had an ARC reactor? And I'm still not convinced by the new Master. They’ve had the Arc Reactor design since Steven Moffat’s Nightmare in Silver in 2013. I’ve been sold on the Sacha Dawn Master since Spyfall Part 2. He proved that he could be both funny and serious. |
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Post by Eryx on Feb 24, 2020 22:05:48 GMT
I enjoyed it. Nice and atmospheric with good pacing. Thumbs up. Not fantastic but good.
Again though, there are a lot of plot elements flying around. It's a two part episode so it's bound to happen, but I was feeling a little lost with the Irish flashbacks. When he survived the encounter on the cliff, I was wondering whether he is somehow connected to Jack Harkness. Also, I'm assuming the lone cyberman is one of those men but I couldn't tell which one.
It does seem that they are either ignoring established timeline stuff set either in classic Who or earlier new Who. Hopefully this is all part of whatever overarching plot they have in mind. The cyber wars were meant to be something like 22nd century and the cyber race all but wiped out then. Also, for a race that needs to convert new members to improve and increase their numbers why are they trying to wipe out humanity?
Tune in next week to find out I guess.
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Post by senko on Feb 28, 2020 5:27:33 GMT
I'm not really a fan of this one though I'll reserve final judgmenet till next episode. However this episode just left too many questions up in the air starting with why did the lone cybermen not bring some of his companions back in time with him to help him moving through why are the cybermen now killing humans instead of upgrading them and ending on well that's spoilers. There was some nice visuals but the episode at least on its own doesn't really add or explain anything and just raised more questions. I mean for example wasn't the "gold weakness" negated for quite awhile now?
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Post by imajica on Mar 2, 2020 13:32:22 GMT
They’ve had the Arc Reactor design since Steven Moffat’s Nightmare in Silver in 2013. I’ve been sold on the Sacha Dawn Master since Spyfall Part 2. He proved that he could be both funny and serious. Nightmare in Silver? Have they? I need to re-watch that one. And good. Glad someone's enjoying his performance. Not everyone can be perfect for everyone. Spyfall part 2 was definitely better than part 1... |
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thereviewer
3rd Incarnation
Posts: 278
Favourite Doctors: Jodie Whittaker, Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi, David Tennant, Christopher Eccelston, John Hurt, Paul McGann, Sylvester McCoy, Peter Davison, Tom Baker, William Hartnell
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Post by thereviewer on Mar 2, 2020 14:15:16 GMT
They’ve had the Arc Reactor design since Steven Moffat’s Nightmare in Silver in 2013. I’ve been sold on the Sacha Dawn Master since Spyfall Part 2. He proved that he could be both funny and serious. Nightmare in Silver? Have they? I need to re-watch that one. And good. Glad someone's enjoying his performance. Not everyone can be perfect for everyone. Spyfall part 2 was definitely better than part 1... Sorry. I misquoted. I meant Neil Gaiman’s Nightmare in Silver. But it was in the Moffat Era during Matt Smith’s final season. |
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Post by markrand on Mar 2, 2020 22:08:18 GMT
Having had a doctor's appointment this morning, I just finished watching it a few minutes ago. I gave it an OK rating. Being a Yank, I did have some trouble understanding some of the dialog. In truth, I prefer the older multi-part stories like the ones with the original seven doctors to the newer programs, but I did also like David Tennant's Doctor.
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. And I did find that entrance at the end amazing.
