Did Danny Pink want to be an officer?

[senko]

I've been rewatching the new who in preperation of season 12 (Yes we're already halfway through, I got distracted) and I find myself wondering if Danny Pink always wanted to be an officer, maybe a colonel. I know we keep getting told he doesn't like them but the sheer amount he yammers on about it feels to me like someone trying to convince people including themselves of something rather than someone who genuinely holds that feeling. I mean in his final speach, end of the world, clock ticking to the end of humanity and talking to a huge amount of deceased people including at least one senior officer and he takes the time to say "I'm not an officer". I mean laying aside the fact you may just insult part of audience what relevance does that have in talking to a random selection of the dead? A civiliian wont care, an officer might feel insulted and the enlisted are probably wondering what your being or not being an officer has to do with the doomsday situation your trying to stir them up to stop. I actually wanted to shout at the screen "Congratulations you've been posthumously promoted to Lieutenant and your an officer, Now stop griping and SAVE THE WORLD!'

So is it just me or do you think ever since that childhood incident with the colonel who held no gun he secretly wanted to be an officer?

[Stormcrow]

I don't quite remember the scene. But my impression was always that he had a problem with those in authority who give orders to fight or kill. In a war context, that is the job of the officers. I don't think he wanted to be one. He resented them for putting him in the position where he accidentally killed a child while trying to follow their orders. He lumped the Doctor in with military officers because he appeared to give Clara orders in dangerous situations. Danny's story arc was about him learning not to blame someone else for what he did, and he redeems himself by accepting responsibility and sacrificing his life to fix what he did.

[senko]

Oh he always had a "People arguing is interesting" plot contrived problem with officers. Its just that end of the world, clock ticking, only you can do it by controlling beings with all emotion removed (seperate issues with that) and rather than just saving the world he not only takes the time to give a speach but in that speach also takes the time to point out "I am not an officer". When some of those he's talking to might be officers (at least one was) or those who admired, loved or wanted to be one. It's just so out of place. Either he has such major, massive hangups he'd rather put the world at risk rather than just act or he's still griping that he didn't get promoted. To me it felt more like the later.

[Stormcrow]

That's just Doctor Who being dramatic. There comes a point where you have to realize that things happen in Doctor Who because they're dramatic, not because they're logical consequences of what's going on.

Moffat depends on this heavily, where the Doctor giving a dramatic speech is the very thing that defeats the bad guys. It's not that the speech informs the villain of the logic of surrender or fleeing; it's just that the speech is too dramatic for it not to cause the Doctor to win.

This was much less prevalent during Davies' tenure, and even then it mostly happened in Moffat scripts.

[senko]

Oh I can overlook the speach as dramatic even though the cybmermen had no choice but do whatever the cyber controller said. Its more that in the middle of the speach he was still yammering on about not being an officer that moved it from "I don't like officers" to "why didn't they make me an officer" griping.

[Stormcrow]

So I went back to listen to Danny's final speech, and he doesn't say anything about being an officer.

The Doctor says "And no, I'm not an officer" during his "I'm an idiot" speech, while listing all the other things he's not, all of which are meant to explain why he doesn't want an army. In Danny's final speech he says what he's asking the Cybermen to do "is not the order of a general" but "the promise of a soldier." What he means is that he's not giving orders from authority; he's invoking the humanity of the Cybermen to save the world.

Unless you're thinking of some other speech I don't remember, I don't think you've interpreted this correctly.

[senko]

Maybe still seems odd to me but then I never liked Danny or Clara especially in that season, its why I asked for second opinions.

[Stormcrow]

Feb 12, 2020 4:31:24 GMT senko said:

I know we keep getting told he doesn't like them but the sheer amount he yammers on about it feels to me like someone trying to convince people including themselves of something rather than someone who genuinely holds that feeling.

As for this, I think his going on about not liking soldiers is just heavy-handed Moffat overdoing the character's hangup, which is why it feels forced to you. The character isn't forcing it; the writer is.

[senko]

Fair point, Moffat was forcing a lot during that season starting with the whole Clara/Danny relationship. Seriously your first date with a guy goes so badly you walk out and then find out he wants nothing weird in his life when your travelling time and space with an alien its probably a good indication this isn't the relationship for you.