New Years Day Special - Resolution

[Nyder]

What did you think?

[Eryx]

Not bad. Nice to have something more resembling Doctor Who and a classic villain.

[olegrand]

Well, sorry but I found this "special" quite bad. I won't dwell on the whole "they managed to make Daleks unscary" line (even though I tend to agree with it).

Simply put, this episode showed the same issues and shortcomings as the rest of the season - but since it was supposed to be a special, these problems were made more apparent (higher expectations etc.) : a relative lack of real "epic-ness" (especially since this episode was loudly advertised in DWM as "big" and "epic") and, above all, too much 'interference' from the various companions' backstories.

By 'interference' here I mean that their individual backstories regularly "hijack" the main plotline, without really meshing / melding with it (something RTD managed masterfully with Rose, her mother, Micky et al). For instance, the emotional scene between Ryan and his dad simply gives you the feeling that Chris Chibnall actually wants to tell another, different story (preferably about family ties, man/woman or parent/child relationships)- with no real hook or connection to the story we are supposed to watch. And when such narrative connections actually occur, they are most often clumsy or utterly predictable.

I mean, since we're talking "alternate take on the Daleks with a single Dalek" here, just re-watch the "Dalek" episode with the Ninth Doctor - there is clearly no comparison whatsoever in terms of pacing, drama, suspense and (yes) intensity of emotion. Not to mention the vision of Daleks...

On a more general level, I've been ruminating about the real reasons why I felt so disappointed by this new season and I think that, apart from the various reasons already discussed in other episode threads, the main, overarching problem lies with the Doctor's companions (plus the fact that every other episode seems to happen in some abandoned industrial site).

Sure,the new companions are well-developed characters in their own right but there are simply too many of them: in each episode, we get at least one gratuitous scene which exists only to answer the question "wait, what is Graham/Ryan/Yaz actually doing ?". And all these "we-gotta-keep-them-occupied" scenes take screen time - time which cannot be used, for instance, to make the story deeper, more dynamic etc.

Or to develop new villains in a satisfactory way...

Or to ensure that suspension of disbelief does work - something that this 'special' completely failed to achieve.

People who think that this new season is "the best ever" often point out that at the very start of the show's history and during the so-called "crowded TARDIS" period of the Fifth Doctor, the Doctor already travelled with three companions and that everything was OK back then. Well, yes... but in both cases, there was some degree of conflict between these characters or between them and the Doctor (remember Tegan ?), which kept things lively and, well, dynamic. The problem with the current "team TARDIS" is that they always agree with everything the Doctor says or does and never really disagree on anything important... making things, well, somewhat bland and predictable. And making these characters more cumbersome than useful - it feels a bit like GMing a scenario with 4 players, with one of them doing all the work, having all the clever ideas etc. and the other three... well, being there (wallflower PCs...).

Jodie Withaker was really great - but I'm afraid the show will really lose its identity and originality if the next season doesn't make some very serious changes - in terms of group dynamics, choice of villains, dramatic stakes etc.

One thing is certain : if the show had come back in 2005 with this kind of stories (regardless of the Doctor's actual gender), then it would have probably been cancelled after a single season. And if you don't see what I'm talking about, just re-watch some Eccleston or Tennant episodes... You'll be surprised by the sheer quantity of stuff happening in a single story - and THAT tells something, I think.

That being said, there have always been different sensibilities in the DW fandom, each with its own favorite era or incarnation of the Doctor - sign of the times and all that.

Sorry for the lenghty diatribe. Happy new year to all of you!

[jay042]

Did they just suggest that Brexit killed UNIT?

[markrand]

I'm recording it right now and I'll watch it before the week is out.

[thereviewer]

Okay, as of this typing, I see that we have one vote for each section save for it was good. I do have one question for Nyder though. I don't mean to be a tattle-tale on everyone else here on the form, but I thought there was a "No Spoilers Section" for each episode until at least one day later. I just want to be clear on that, since I was saving my full spoiler-filled thoughts for tomorrow or the next day (I might've picked up a bad cold, which I'm fighting to beat.) But overall, this was a very welcome return to form and I think they made the right choice with the monster to headline this special. There's a few theories I have about certain plot-points in this episode, but I'll share them when I feel better hopefully in the next day or two. Overall, very happy even if this is the only episode we get for a while.


EDIT: Of course, when I posted the balance just shifted to 'great' taking the lead. Not complaining, though. As a great man once said "To thine own self be true."

[Nyder]

Jan 2, 2019 2:45:14 GMT thereviewer said:

i do have one question for Nyder though. I don't mean to be a tattle-tale on everyone else here on the form, but I thought there was a "No Spoilers Section" for each episode until at least one day later.

This thread is already in the Spoilers section of the forum, so anyone reading it should be aware of the risk. There's been a tendency recently for people to add spoiler tags to hide particularly sensitive information, but that isn't a forum rule in the Spoiler section - though it's good practice.

[senko]

Ah well I'll see if I can get them to work then never had much luck with the formatting.

Personally I wasn't a fan of this episode laying aside the

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fact the Dalek itself didn't really come across as menacing they just introduce this new superpowered variant (apparently able to resurect itself and recombine itself after centuries in pieces due to UV light as well as take control of people) its apparently got all these amazing powers biologically but that isn't how the Daleks work they're tech based enemies. One of the few races on par with the timelords in terms of technology. So it just doesn't feel right.

Then we have the whole issue with this prehistoric Dalek wanting to communicate with the fleet to take over planet earth. Which is pretty much a non-threat in my opinion the fleet would know where earth is and how badly attempts to invade have gone for them. So what now they get a random call from the Dalek that was defeated centuries ago by sword and axe wielding humans and decide its a good idea?

Next we have the utter incompetence of various police and guards "My partner is stopping someone uknown who was speednig recklessly and I, I shall read this newspaper and pay no attention to them and the possibility the person is going to attack them."

The shutdown of UNIT when by this stage they should have dozens if not hundreds of documented alien invasions including several all out ones (canary warf, titanic crashing, the blood magic ones that I can never remember the name of). These aren't "Those wacky conspiracy theorists are wasting government funds" these are documented multi-national task forces who have repeatedly and demonstratably faced alien invasions. Yet they're just handwaved away and to make matters worse the call center person is "Yes but whens the last time aliens invaded" umm last year or the one before?

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Then there's the fact that apparently the Black Archive has an online website that can easily be hacked into by the Dalek using a personal laptop how on earth is it meant to keep things secure if its accessable online.

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The GHCQ being able to draw all power from the country AND shut down the internet . . . isn't the whole point of the internet being multiple nodes so while you can take down parts of it the facilities can still be used to access others? Then there's that throway gag about the modern family not wanting to have a conversation. How about a book, offline game, videos (or for more technologically upto date bluray's).

No for me this special really wasn't that enjoyable it alters established lore but not in a good way.

[misterharry]

I enjoyed it.

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I found the scenes in the sewer with the Dalek mutant to be tense and unnerving, and the Scrapheap Challenge Dalek exterminating a squad of soldiers and destroying a tank was easily equal to the equivalent scenes in Dalek in showing just how deadly it could be.

If I have a complaint, it's that Yaz again seemed to be sidelined. Oh, and the shoehorning of the microwave into the story was an overly heavy-handed signal that it would be key to the story's resolution.

[thereviewer]

First off, I want to thank Nyder for answering my question. You're the boss, but I'd like to suggest that from now on, we try to make a habit of saving spoilers for at best a day, since I know there are people like markrand who wish to watch the episode the following day and I feel like last year he kept saying he was going to watch it the next day and within 24 hours before his next post, there were spoilers galore. Again, it's just a suggestion I think since I'm guessing some people can't watch it quick enough.


That being said, I am going to put my thoughts in spoiler tags. However, I would like to ask something of everyone here once they've seen the episode and have time to compose themselves to respond in a calm and collective manner. It's kind of a personal thing, but it's just for my own sanity. I'll go into this more within my spoiler thoughts, but there are some arguments that I've seen which I'll also get into. While I am an advocate of free speech and would never try to force someone to think like myself, I have thought of myself as a man who uses what is presented to him in order to make strong compelling arguments. However, I'm worried if I've lost my touch since for the past 3 Years, people have been attacking me based on my own beliefs and I want to make sure this isn't just some toxic internet thing; that I'm not getting trolled by people just for what I believe in. That said, let's move on.

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Now, before I delve into my arguments, I want to bring up something I saw on a review show that's been bugging me since I first viewed it. It's a quote which I think we should all take away from in light of the many changes this season. "Nostalgia...can be toxic. Now, bear in mind; I do not say that it IS toxic, but that it CAN be toxic. This assumption that because we have pleasant memories of something, that it was always good all the time. A desire to get that back ignores all the good that's come since then. As well as all the bad stuff that was there too. And it poisons you. Making you more susceptible to deception. To your own greed. Who's to say that your own past is more important than someone else's future? And because you may want something that might not have been real at all, the farther the goalpost gets. Because you can't really reclaim it. So it just gets worse and worse, and you get greedier and more desperate for it, because what you really want is never going to come until in the end, you become the very thing you hated in the first place. You become obsessed with chasing some imaginary feeling that you forget where you are and that you can create real attainable goals right now. To that mindset; the past is more important than the future." I just want to be clear, I do not use this quote as a means of thumbing my nose at others and looking down at others because I believe my arguments are better. In fact, I welcome the opportunity to have other arguments against me because it helps me to understand others and their mindset better. But I bring this quote up because I feel that it personifies a lot of critics of Series 11 that have been seen on Twitter and Facebook Comments which some are believing to be actual reviews when in reality, they're coming off to some people as the equivalent of a child balling their eyes and screaming "YOU'RE RUINING EVERYTHING!" because they believe they have been robbed of something that is the equivalent of their birthright, instead of belonging to everyone. Those people? They're chasing some unattainable goal when the entire purpose was to bring new monsters, new ideas, and new formats to what had become a bit formulaic in the Peter Capaldi years save for a few episodes. And I admit, there are times when I see a comment and I nearly loose self control, feeling an urge to go onto social media and complain about how these people don't get the bigger picture and are ruining things themselves. The difference is that I know when someone's baiting me and I know that nowadays, no matter how well thought-out my arguments are, there will be people who will try to hurt me to the point of me giving up on life. The same thing happened with a fanfic I wrote a few years ago. Someone wrote up a very jarring and hurtful comment around the time of the late-great Robin William's sudden and tragic passing where the person reviewing my story said and I quote; "your stories are as unfunny as Robin Williams and you deserve to be where he is now." I admit that my story was full of grammar mistakes (something I keep trying to fix but get held-up  by life interfering), though I think we can all agree it was a very toxic thing to say. The reason it hurt me especially was up until that point, I had only known about Robin Williams from his more PG works and had not seen his more mature comic stand-up routines. It got bad to the point where I almost actually decided to end it all, but let's just say something Doctor Who related made me bounce back and resolve to do better both by myself, and not give in to throwing my life away because of a bad review. The point here is that I think we need to realize that just because we say something one way, it doesn't mean that everyone is going to understand and in some cases, it could become very hurtful to others without us realizing it. So if anyone is looking for a New Year's Resolution of their own; my suggestion would be try to understand each other better. Because not everyone is going to come around to thinking like you do. But, this IS just the way I think things have been unfairly going and because this opening has gone on far enough, let's get into my thoughts on the episode and my defenses against some of the arguments made here.

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First off, I want to acknowledge olegrand & senko for giving valid arguments and for not falling into the same trappings as I mentioned above. Your thoughts were clearly well-thought out and composed perfectly where it wasn't forcing people to see how you do. However, I would like to make some counter-arguments to some of your claims in the same "not-trying-to-change-your-mind-but-pointing-out-my-own-reason-for-thinking-in-my-own-way" argument that you gave. For olegrand, while I agree that the companions might need some more conflict with the Doctor next season, I think the stuff with Ryan's Dad was a welcome surprise since his presence was still felt throughout Series 11 (go back and re-watch some of the episodes and you'll hear Ryan mention him), so having him turn up trying to make his own 'Resolution' was kind of a nice touch. Maybe they could've toned down some of the scenes, but at least it gives closure to Ryan and his Dad's conflict which fits better than the repeat of what they did with the last episode. Still, thank you, olegrand for being able to acknowledge that this is just my own taste and views. Things change on TV, like you said. Sure, there can be room for improvements, but I feel that this one fixed a lot of problems I had with the last episode. As for senko, the reason I believe that the Dalek had the ability to reconstruct itself is because I believe that this is a Dalek that survived Skaro from Remembrance of the Daleks. After all, Davros clearly survived the Hand of Omega alongside a handful of Daleks to start a Time War, so I think it's safe to assume that if a Dalek had survived, it would've tried to get to Earth and perhaps along the way it ended up in some kind of time distortion and perhaps either Skaro's rapidly changing sun or the previously-mentioned distorted time jump. Hell, it could have also been one from the Time War since we know thanks to expanded media that there were more than just New Series Daleks in the War and perhaps it was unprotected from the Vortex when it jumped creating a new mutation within it that allowed it to gain new abilities. I would also like to argue that the Dalek voice inside the archeologist's head actually was unnerving and it seems like Nicholas Briggs actually did something new and interesting with the Dalek voice outside of the casing. I'd also like to talk about a few points against something that you brought up with U.N.I.T. possibly being shut down by Brexit. First; real-life events mirror what happens on TV, so it's kind-of expected. Second, I think the real reason is because of the legal issues of using U.N.I.T. and Lethbridge-Stewart on Doctor Who (although I don't know the full details yet, but I know something's happened where they've had to get the rights to have Lethbridge-Stewart on Doctor Who, so the Brexit reference was probably the safest bet for an in-universe explanation. Third, is something I thought about imminently after The Doctor hung up; there might be a possibility of a spin-off featuring a new independent peacekeeping taskforce defending Earth ala Kingsman meets Men in Black OR... with U.N.I.T. gone, could this possibly mean we'll get Torchwood back to fill in the gap left behind? I certainly hope so. But again, these are my thoughts on those comments. Both your critiques and the ones left by olegrand were well-thought out and my intention was to simply offer my own ideas of answering a few unknown questions.

SPOILER: Click to show

Now for my own thoughts about the episode. Aside from what I mentioned above, perhaps the silliest complaint (and that's saying A LOT with the criticisms I've read for Series 11), has been that the Dalek too "Junkyard Built." Yes, because the effects in Doctor Who have ALWAYS been of high quality. Isn't that right, Hartnell Era Daleks, Hartnell Era Zarbi, Classic Series Sontarans Post-Time Warrior, the effects in Warriors from the Deep, and the majority of effects in Colin Baker's era? Again, I'm not saying that these criticism are ruining everything, it's just that I wonder if people actually watched the show prior to Jodie, because there's a lot of calling the kettle black in these cases. I honestly thought that the "junkyard Dalek" was a welcome callback to old-school Who and that it's honestly no less different from how they were made in real life; with ordinary items cobbled together. I've also seen complaints of the Black Archive being available online. They made it pretty clear that the organization they went to was just called 'The Archive.' It's clearly NOT the U.N.I.T. Black Archive, which they specifically stated in the episode itself. And in case you're wondering "Well, how could anyone but U.N.I.T. have access to alien technology, I would refer you to what olegrand pointed out about 'Dalek' or even 'The End of Time' where clearly humans collected this stuff without organizations like U.N.I.T. or Torchwood being aware of what happened. One thing that DID bug me was I would've liked to have seen more of how the Alliance managed to restrain the Dalek and burn it alive the first time rather than it being a single image in a history book. Overall, I thought this did a great job using only one Dalek as part of me was worried we were going to go overboard with thousands of Daleks like what we'd seen under Steven Moffat's run, so I was pleased we didn't go too crazy. I was also happy we didn't get Mood Whiplash of the Dalek arguing the Doctor was male since, well, why would it? It clearly knows of regeneration. It knows who the Doctor is, so it wouldn't make for small-talk unless its systems weren't functioning properly. Speaking of which, we all know that every Doctor is judged by how they handle a Dalek. I thought Jodie handled hers spectacularly. It was nice to see The Doctor acknowledge that even one Dalek could be bad running around on Earth. There was also the nice continuity of her acknowledging how The Daleks always come back so I'll be happy to see hopefully more classic monsters continue to return in the future. I'd also like to say I appreciated how the Dalek was smart enough to take out CCTV Cameras and other tracking along the way. One last thing I'll say is that most people have compared the new Dalek to the Symbiotes from Spider-Man. Personally, I think THIS is how they should've handed the Symbiotes in Venom which I found overrated myself and actually WORSE than Spider-Man 3. At least they didn't have to scalp Jessie Eisenberg's hair so they could put it on Woody Harrelson's head. But I digress. Could certain parts have been improved? Meh, probably. But I think we can all agree it was a better Season Finale than the LAST Episode. Overall, outside of some under-lit scenes, I really think that this was the true Season Finale and will happily wait till 2020 to hopefully see everyone learn from their mistakes.

Thank you to everyone who read this after watching and who is calm enough to read this without pointing a finger back at me for what I believe in. Hopefully we can be calm and collected and hopefully someone can tell me if I'm doing anything wrong with my analysis because I really need to know that it's not just other hurtful people trying to get me riled up. I believe that I'm presenting myself in a cohesive manner, but I want to make sure I'm actually doing it that way so any feedback and any ideas for improvements will be appreciated. Hope you enjoyed my thoughts and have a happy and healthy New Year. Thankfully I've started to feel a bit better so hopefully the rest of the New Year will be smooth sailing from hereon out. 

[olegrand]

Well of course we can have completely different or even opposite points of view and yet discuss them in a courteous, civilised manner - I may be wrong but this has almost always been the case here so I don't see how on Earth (or Gallifrey) anyone here would "attack you" because of your "beliefs". We are just exchanging opinions about a (great) TV show - and given the tradition of civil debate upheld by this forum, I really don't see any risk of a flame war or trolling festival looming above us. Anyway, your advice was very interesting to read (even though I disagree with you on quite a few counts and that all that matters in the end.

[thereviewer]

Jan 2, 2019 15:11:31 GMT olegrand said:

Well of course we can have completely different or even opposite points of view and yet discuss them in a courteous, civilised manner - I may be wrong but this has almost always been the case here so I don't see how on Earth (or Gallifrey) anyone here would "attack you" because of your "beliefs". We are just exchanging opinions about a (great) TV show - and given the tradition of civil debate upheld by this forum, I really don't see any risk of a flame war or trolling festival looming above us. Anyway, your advice was very interesting to read (even though I disagree with you on quite a few counts and that all that matters in the end.

olegrand,

Thank you for your civilized response. You are free to your own opinions as I said. I thankfully have not been attacked here as I have been on certain fanfics for my own thoughts, and I hope that never NEVER happens on this forum. The sad truth is that I think the world is full of people who believe that the world would be better off without those like me just because of how I think certain stories or movies SHOULD have gone instead of how they did. The aforementioned attack was not on the forum here, but on Fanfiction.net for an earlier story I had done. I only brought it up because I felt it illustrated my frustration at times with how people don't seem to understand my POV at times and choose to only focus on being negative than positive. Feel free to PM me your disagreements to help me understand what they are a bit better if you like.

[Rassilon]

Jan 2, 2019 14:59:46 GMT thereviewer said:

...people have been attacking me based on my own beliefs and I want to make sure this isn't just some toxic internet thing; that I'm not getting trolled by people just for what I believe in.

...

Thank you to everyone who read this after watching and who is calm enough to read this without pointing a finger back at me for what I believe in. Hopefully we can be calm and collected and hopefully someone can tell me if I'm doing anything wrong with my analysis because I really need to know that it's not just other hurtful people trying to get me riled up. I believe that I'm presenting myself in a cohesive manner, but I want to make sure I'm actually doing it that way so any feedback and any ideas for improvements will be appreciated. Hope you enjoyed my thoughts and have a happy and healthy New Year. Thankfully I've started to feel a bit better so hopefully the rest of the New Year will be smooth sailing from hereon out. 

Hi, it is obvious you have had some bad experiences elsewhere on the internet and I am truly sorry you had to experience that.

Allow me to assure you that you should always feel at ease in this forum to write your thoughts and opinions without fear of prejudice.


We have zero tolerance to any malicious behaviour in this forum and any members trolling or flaming you will be dealt with and any personal attack on you will result in a ban for that member.




Have a great new year and don't hesitate to report any problems to us.

[thereviewer]

Jan 2, 2019 17:36:04 GMT Rassilon said:

Jan 2, 2019 14:59:46 GMT thereviewer said:

...people have been attacking me based on my own beliefs and I want to make sure this isn't just some toxic internet thing; that I'm not getting trolled by people just for what I believe in.

...

Thank you to everyone who read this after watching and who is calm enough to read this without pointing a finger back at me for what I believe in. Hopefully we can be calm and collected and hopefully someone can tell me if I'm doing anything wrong with my analysis because I really need to know that it's not just other hurtful people trying to get me riled up. I believe that I'm presenting myself in a cohesive manner, but I want to make sure I'm actually doing it that way so any feedback and any ideas for improvements will be appreciated. Hope you enjoyed my thoughts and have a happy and healthy New Year. Thankfully I've started to feel a bit better so hopefully the rest of the New Year will be smooth sailing from hereon out. 

Hi, it is obvious you have had some bad experiences elsewhere on the internet and I am truly sorry you had to experience that.

Allow me to assure you that you should always feel at ease in this forum to write your thoughts and opinions without fear of prejudice.


We have zero tolerance to any malicious behaviour in this forum and any members trolling or flaming you will be dealt with and any personal attack on you will result in a ban for that member.




Have a great new year and don't hesitate to report any problems to us.

Dear Rassilon,

Thank you for the kind words and assurance. It means a lot to know that this is a place where everyone's opinion is valued and to hear your sympathy for me really meant a lot to me, even as I deal with recovering from a terrible, TERRIBLE cold. I fully admit that in this previous fanfic I wrote, I was coming from a place of frustration at a certain comic story (completely unrelated to DW btw, outside of what the writer thought he was doing, but I won't get into that). I truly feel like I have been accepted here over the years since I've joined. I went from someone who knew squat about roleplaying and now I run a game with one of my best friends whenever we have time that people I have admired since my earliest days here have come to enjoy.

If at any point I feel like I am being treated in the ways you have mentioned, I will let you know.

My point though was not that I had been treated wrongly, but I felt that a lot of the comments during episode discussions had begun to turn toxic. That there is more of a focus on a negative side of the season rather than the positive. And yes, criticism can be a good thing. It teaches us what mistakes are there and encourages us to learn from our mistakes to better ourselves. But like I said...criticism can also be toxic. You can see the example in my spoiler section from my fanfic days. As I stated, part of me was coming from a place of personal hurting at a truly horrendous comic book storyline that has still not had its greatest flaws addressed, but by the end of the day, my intent was to try and tell a better story. One that addressed such problems, but offered a better solution. Sure, I could've looked at my spelling a bit more, but I was starting college around that point and thus didn't have time for that. But even after admitting my flaws, that one review I mentioned in the aforementioned spoilers section nearly broke me and almost made me give up on everything. But thanks to something I read, I realized I still had a lot worth living for.

If you'll recall about a few months back, I finally played my magnum opus adventure which was my latest critique of the state of comic books and superhero mediums in general. Both from the Big Two. That turned out being a lot of fun with my friend and it did present another answer to why comic stories these days are so dark. Because I hung in there, I took the idea of someone hurt by snobbish comic book writers who thumb their noses at people like me, not realizing how someone like myself has a disability that still hurt me more than the aforementioned thought it would; and translated that into a character representing the best of what people can be at their fullest potential.

Again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that I ask in the future to bear in mind that not everyone here has the same kind of life or mindset as others, and that we should try to focus on a balanced outlook on things rather than just one section. I mean no attack to anyone either.

Thank you again for the kind words and assurance. 

[Rassilon]

Jan 2, 2019 22:00:05 GMT thereviewer said:

Thank you again for the kind words and assurance. 

You are welcome. Take care and enjoy the forum.

[imajica]

The good. Best Christmas/seasonal special since Dr Who came back on air. Some sharp dialogue. Good (for Who) special F/X. The UK Security Helpline.
The bad. Pacing. Unnecessary characters (actually, removing all scenes between Ryan and his dad would solve a lot of the pacing).
The strange. A functionally immortal Dalek with new cool special powers? Secret organisations that guard these sites somehow able to find time to have families? The whole of the world somehow forgetting previous alien invasions and disbanding UNIT?

It felt like a 45-minute episode padded out to fit the hour slot with an extra storyline that we didn't need. The Microwave? That's a GCSE example of Chekhov's Gun and was too bloody obvious.

It had moments of greatness. There were times it felt _right_... But that sums up this entire series, really.

[stahlman]

I thought this was pretty ghastly really. I quite liked the steampunk/dieselpunk Dalek but the ending was extremely crass.

[thereviewer]

One other thing I forgot to mention that I should've in my previous review (and I'll use this w/o spoiler tags since I'm guessing everyone's seen it by this point) is actually something that relates to a problem I had with Capaldi's first season VS how they handled it here. I'm sure by this point most of us have forgotten about Danny Pink who only lasted one season and aside from sacrificing himself to save the world (and Clara) while bringing back a boy he accidently shot, he served no purpose other than to be Clara's boyfriend. True, Rory was Amy's boyfriend and he served a greater purpose, but I feel that part of the problem with Danny was his introduction seemed...rushed and thus that made his whole storyline feel rushed especially with Clara lying to him about where she goes only to then be forced to tell him the truth and then lie some more. Looking back now, I think maybe if Clara had been honest with Danny from the get-go about what she did and the season was her more of "do you really want to do this even after everything The Doctor's done?" kind of thing, it would've been a more interesting character arc and development. Plus, it would give more weight to when Danny is killed and ends up giving life back to the boy he accidently killed. 

Thus, I was genuinely surprised that Ryan, Yaz, Graham, and The Doctor just told him the truth of what Ryan had been doing. From my perspective, had they kept him in the dark, it would've ended up doing a lot more damage than good and thus it'd inevitably end up with a rehash of Danny. It's very rare in Fictional TV shows for a character who lives an amazing life to come clean to a family member or friend, but this did it in one episode. Sure they could've revealed things quicker and done more than just the deus ex machina of the oven/microwave bit, but when compared to how long it took to make Danny aware of The TARDIS and Clara's adventures, it's a breath of fresh air to see them take the straightforward route and just be honest.

Anyways, just another thought I had which I wanted to mention briefly.


EDIT: Yes, I know Yaz hasn't mentioned what happened to her family yet, but this is at least a development for Ryan. Besides Graham, the only family member he could speak to was his Grandmother Grace who died in The Woman Who Fell to Earth, so at least during next season there's someone back on Earth he can talk to that's a family member besides Graham. So at least it's some character development for Ryan. My prediction is maybe next season might be where the cracks start to show and the companions become a bit more exposed to the greater dangers The Doctor faces (and sometimes can be the direct cause of) and threatens to tear them apart. At least that's what I hope happens.  Here's till 2020.

[senko]

Ok three things . . .

1) Personal taste I guess me I feel if a thread/forum is already tagged spoilers you don't need to spoiler tag something as anyone venturing in there has already been warned it'll contain spoilers and is probably visiting for that reason, I know I do to discuss things in a safe spot where I don't need to what saying something that'll spoil a movie/show for someone who hasn't seen it. That said I'm willing to spoiler part of my posts if that's how its being handled.

thereviewer
2) The problem with that idea is

SPOILER: Click to show

this Dalek is presented in a way that seems to play up its being amongst the first of the recon Daleks from Skaro and is part of a common line of Daleks who go out and find places. The other issue aside from the one I've already mentioned on its biological powers is that the Daleks have been repeatedly shown as a race to believe themselves pure to the point they've exterminated other Daleks who they felt don't match up. The idea of an entire line of special super powered recon Daleks to me just doesn't match the established lore. Honestly if it had been as you say a survivor of some special event or a relic from the height of the time war I'd have had less of a problem with it because it'd then fit in with the established lore as we have seen rare secret experiements by Daleks and at the height of the time war they may have experiemnted with a more powerful recon/infiltration form but that's now how it was presented. Unless I misinterpreted the episode.

3) True TV shows especially ones like this probably would reflect the real world but in this case we've seen had episodes set before and after this one timeline wise

SPOILER: Click to show

where UNIT is still active and even with Brexit it just doesn't make sense internally in the worlds setting for me which is why I dislike it. You can have a show be as fantastical or AU as you like as long as its consistent internally in its own logic, unless chaos is its logic but thats not the case here. As for you second point I didn't realize there was an issue with the Lethbridge Stewart name I'll need to look into that thanks for hte information. Shame though they still could have had UNIT just have that group of generic soldiers the Dalek kills be a UNIT fast response force. It'd fit with their usual performance and make me happy. Especially since it wouldn't have the "When did an alien invasion last happen" line since as I said they've happened regularly and UNIT has a long list of them to point too including ones that affected the entire world.

[thereviewer]

Jan 3, 2019 22:25:12 GMT senko said:

Ok three things . . .

1) Personal taste I guess me I feel if a thread/forum is already tagged spoilers you don't need to spoiler tag something as anyone venturing in there has already been warned it'll contain spoilers and is probably visiting for that reason, I know I do to discuss things in a safe spot where I don't need to what saying something that'll spoil a movie/show for someone who hasn't seen it. That said I'm willing to spoiler part of my posts if that's how its being handled.

thereviewer
2) The problem with that idea is

SPOILER: Click to show

this Dalek is presented in a way that seems to play up its being amongst the first of the recon Daleks from Skaro and is part of a common line of Daleks who go out and find places. The other issue aside from the one I've already mentioned on its biological powers is that the Daleks have been repeatedly shown as a race to believe themselves pure to the point they've exterminated other Daleks who they felt don't match up. The idea of an entire line of special super powered recon Daleks to me just doesn't match the established lore. Honestly if it had been as you say a survivor of some special event or a relic from the height of the time war I'd have had less of a problem with it because it'd then fit in with the established lore as we have seen rare secret experiements by Daleks and at the height of the time war they may have experiemnted with a more powerful recon/infiltration form but that's now how it was presented. Unless I misinterpreted the episode.

3) True TV shows especially ones like this probably would reflect the real world but in this case we've seen had episodes set before and after this one timeline wise

SPOILER: Click to show

where UNIT is still active and even with Brexit it just doesn't make sense internally in the worlds setting for me which is why I dislike it. You can have a show be as fantastical or AU as you like as long as its consistent internally in its own logic, unless chaos is its logic but thats not the case here. As for you second point I didn't realize there was an issue with the Lethbridge Stewart name I'll need to look into that thanks for hte information. Shame though they still could have had UNIT just have that group of generic soldiers the Dalek kills be a UNIT fast response force. It'd fit with their usual performance and make me happy. Especially since it wouldn't have the "When did an alien invasion last happen" line since as I said they've happened regularly and UNIT has a long list of them to point too including ones that affected the entire world.

senko ,

Thank you for being calm with your points. I actually used to have an old roommate in college who was a bit of an Extremist Whovian in that he'd constantly bug me to watch and talk with him even when I'd say over and over that I was busy and had both work to do and times when I'd just need a breather to unwind from a long day of study and classes. It's nice to know that here people can be civilized and still have their own opinions. My suggestion to the admins has just been that I know people like markrand sometimes tend to record and watch the episode the next days so I thought I'd suggest waiting a few days before posting without spoilers would be fair for everyone.

Your points are well-thought-out, but there's another idea that supports my theory.

SPOILER: Click to show

You use the word 'retcon' quite a lot in your reasoning. If you are to believe that this is a major retcon, Series 11 is already in-and-of-itself a major retcon for the show since the Doctor already visited 2018 in Enemy of the World and Series 11 2018 is nothing like that. I know the novelization from Target Books places the events of EotW in 2030, but that's only for the novel. Thus, UNIT could've changed in the meantime. Also, the New Paradigm Daleks were something of a retcon as well and were equally hated before Moffat more-or-less brought back the first New Series Daleks and eventually the classic ones in their entirety. Furthermore, while I personally don't know the specifications of the Lethbridge-Stewart Legal rights, I also know through various reviews that Big Finish's New Series UNIT Range has had the Modern-Day UNIT going through some pretty tough times and losses, which makes it understandable if the government decided to pull the plug. Again, it's all my theory. I haven't listened to the audio dramas, but I know in one of them UNIT failed to prevent a Cyberman Invasion from another universe and it was only through teaming with the Time War Master that they were able to barely defeat the Cyber-Menace. As for the "not realizing alien invasion part." Going back to what I said about mirroring real-life events...the internet and world media is a hard thing to navigate these days. Anyone can say anything is faked and it's sometimes hard to figure out what's-what.

But again, you're entitled to your own opinion. I just want to give my own observation and thoughts. 

[misterharry]

Jan 3, 2019 22:25:12 GMT senko said:

thereviewer
2) The problem with that idea is

SPOILER: Click to show

this Dalek is presented in a way that seems to play up its being amongst the first of the recon Daleks from Skaro and is part of a common line of Daleks who go out and find places. The other issue aside from the one I've already mentioned on its biological powers is that the Daleks have been repeatedly shown as a race to believe themselves pure to the point they've exterminated other Daleks who they felt don't match up. The idea of an entire line of special super powered recon Daleks to me just doesn't match the established lore. Honestly if it had been as you say a survivor of some special event or a relic from the height of the time war I'd have had less of a problem with it because it'd then fit in with the established lore as we have seen rare secret experiements by Daleks and at the height of the time war they may have experiemnted with a more powerful recon/infiltration form but that's now how it was presented. Unless I misinterpreted the episode.

Despite the Daleks' reputation for racial purity, variants have arisen from time to time - Remembrance of the Daleks and The Parting of the Ways provide two examples of this. Who's to say that in the very early years of Dalek history (about which we know very little after Genesis), after they finally emerged from their bunker, the Daleks didn't go through a stage of further experimentation before the racial purity vibe cut in and such things were banned.

3) True TV shows especially ones like this probably would reflect the real world but in this case we've seen had episodes set before and after this one timeline wise

SPOILER: Click to show

where UNIT is still active and even with Brexit it just doesn't make sense internally in the worlds setting for me which is why I dislike it. You can have a show be as fantastical or AU as you like as long as its consistent internally in its own logic, unless chaos is its logic but thats not the case here. As for you second point I didn't realize there was an issue with the Lethbridge Stewart name I'll need to look into that thanks for hte information. Shame though they still could have had UNIT just have that group of generic soldiers the Dalek kills be a UNIT fast response force. It'd fit with their usual performance and make me happy. Especially since it wouldn't have the "When did an alien invasion last happen" line since as I said they've happened regularly and UNIT has a long list of them to point too including ones that affected the entire world.

Watch that call centre scene again. The woman at the other end of the phone only says that UNIT operations have been suspended, that it has been put on hold following financial disputes. I read this as being only a temporary thing, not a permanent shut down of UNIT.

As for her comment about when was the last alien invasion, I think that reflects her lack of awareness and intelligence rather than reality - given that we, the viewers, know that invasions happen all the time in Doctor Who, the line is intended to be ironic. It's also the sort of thing politicians with an axe to grind against UNIT could say in order to pursue their own political or personal agenda - like the Leave campaign's claims about NHS funding - it's not true but enough people believed it for it to be treated as fact by a large section of the public.

In fact, when was the last invasion that would have been widely known about? The Cybermen in Death in Heaven? So, four years ago - and the authorities could have made up a cover story (as UNIT are supposed to have done after various invasions in the classic series). Even if not, I can easily imagine that the politicians' line would be something like we don't need to fund an expensive international force when we only have an invasion every four years or so - we can rely on our own national armies (which we're already paying for) to defend us.

[stahlman]

I fear that we will discover that Mr Chibnall was really the Valeyard all along.

[thereviewer]

Jan 4, 2019 10:24:36 GMT misterharry said:

Jan 3, 2019 22:25:12 GMT senko said:

thereviewer
2) The problem with that idea is

SPOILER: Click to show

this Dalek is presented in a way that seems to play up its being amongst the first of the recon Daleks from Skaro and is part of a common line of Daleks who go out and find places. The other issue aside from the one I've already mentioned on its biological powers is that the Daleks have been repeatedly shown as a race to believe themselves pure to the point they've exterminated other Daleks who they felt don't match up. The idea of an entire line of special super powered recon Daleks to me just doesn't match the established lore. Honestly if it had been as you say a survivor of some special event or a relic from the height of the time war I'd have had less of a problem with it because it'd then fit in with the established lore as we have seen rare secret experiements by Daleks and at the height of the time war they may have experiemnted with a more powerful recon/infiltration form but that's now how it was presented. Unless I misinterpreted the episode.

Despite the Daleks' reputation for racial purity, variants have arisen from time to time - Remembrance of the Daleks and The Parting of the Ways provide two examples of this. Who's to say that in the very early years of Dalek history (about which we know very little after Genesis), after they finally emerged from their bunker, the Daleks didn't go through a stage of further experimentation before the racial purity vibe cut in and such things were banned.

3) True TV shows especially ones like this probably would reflect the real world but in this case we've seen had episodes set before and after this one timeline wise

SPOILER: Click to show

where UNIT is still active and even with Brexit it just doesn't make sense internally in the worlds setting for me which is why I dislike it. You can have a show be as fantastical or AU as you like as long as its consistent internally in its own logic, unless chaos is its logic but thats not the case here. As for you second point I didn't realize there was an issue with the Lethbridge Stewart name I'll need to look into that thanks for hte information. Shame though they still could have had UNIT just have that group of generic soldiers the Dalek kills be a UNIT fast response force. It'd fit with their usual performance and make me happy. Especially since it wouldn't have the "When did an alien invasion last happen" line since as I said they've happened regularly and UNIT has a long list of them to point too including ones that affected the entire world.

Watch that call centre scene again. The woman at the other end of the phone only says that UNIT operations have been suspended, that it has been put on hold following financial disputes. I read this as being only a temporary thing, not a permanent shut down of UNIT.

As for her comment about when was the last alien invasion, I think that reflects her lack of awareness and intelligence rather than reality - given that we, the viewers, know that invasions happen all the time in Doctor Who, the line is intended to be ironic. It's also the sort of thing politicians with an axe to grind against UNIT could say in order to pursue their own political or personal agenda - like the Leave campaign's claims about NHS funding - it's not true but enough people believed it for it to be treated as fact by a large section of the public.

In fact, when was the last invasion that would have been widely known about? The Cybermen in Death in Heaven? So, four years ago - and the authorities could have made up a cover story (as UNIT are supposed to have done after various invasions in the classic series). Even if not, I can easily imagine that the politicians' line would be something like we don't need to fund an expensive international force when we only have an invasion every four years or so - we can rely on our own national armies (which we're already paying for) to defend us.

misterharry,

Thanks for bringing up some good points. It actually gives me idea for a potential adventure seed. You mentioned how despite the Daleks having their racial superiority complex, we have seen variants of them over the years. It'd be interesting to have a story at some point where we ask when do the Daleks make acceptations to their upgrades and when does it stop? I did a scenario like this in my own campaign where I had a planet overrun with a zombie virus which even turned a couple of Daleks into zombies. Davros was forced to team-up with my PC and her companion to discover how to permanently cure himself of the virus (as he was bitten at some point before they arrived and had made a makeshift temporary cure attached to his lower Dalek Mobile Transport Device) where he stated "I am Davros; Lord and Creator of the Daleks. I am superior to any and all life-forms in the universe. But I am also a scientist. As such, a scientist knows when to employ the help of others. So I will aid you for now." Has anyone else tried to do a story like this out of curiosity?

[Uncle_Beastly]

I liked it!
(But then my tastes in entertainment run towards schlocky B horror/sci-fi movies and overwrought Gothic novels... )

[thereviewer]

Jan 6, 2019 20:21:36 GMT Uncle_Beastly said:

I liked it!
(But then my tastes in entertainment run towards schlocky B horror/sci-fi movies and overwrought Gothic novels... )

Uncle_Beastly ,

There's no shame in that. There's no reason why you can't like both things. Besides liking Doctor Who, I am also a personal fan of Arnold Schwarzenegger's Total Recall for its intricate plot, many twists, and ambiguous ending which really tests the brain to question what really happens in that film while being cleverly disguised as a typical 80's/90's Schwarzenegger Action Flick full of one-liners, explosions, and adult themes. As the admins of this forum have said, you should not be afraid to speak your mind freely. The only thing you have to be aware of is how you say things so that others don’t feel like they’re ashamed and/or offended of having their own opinions, as I’ve talked about at previously in this post. Plus, you can trust me. One of my top favorite film (and also technically TV) series is the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness franchise which is getting a comic book crossover with Bubba Ho-Tep next month which I am giddy with anticipation for. 

[Uncle_Beastly]

thereviewer - A comic of Bubba Ho-Tep you say?!?

*excited squeaking intensifies*

Oooooh.

[thereviewer]

Jan 11, 2019 22:46:01 GMT Uncle_Beastly said:

thereviewer - A comic of Bubba Ho-Tep you say?!?

*excited squeaking intensifies*

Oooooh.

Uncle_Beastly,

There's been an IDW-Published Series of Bubba Ho-Tep for a while now written by the original Bubba Ho-Tep Author, but next month they're doing a crossover with Dynamite's Army of Darkness Ongoing series which will see Ash finally meet Elvis for double the action and double the chins.

[senko]

Interesting.

You know your comments on the recon dalek could be taken the other way. That is rather than them happening before the drive for purity they were the cause of it. These experiments and powerful Daleks caused an incident bad enough for the Daleks to say "No more." and shut down all this kind of experimentation. It'd explain why the recon dalek was left on earth for all that time. It wasn't because the army killed it and kept it from calling for help but that it's death was chalked up to "good fortune" and if it had called on the dalek fleet they wouldn't have shown up to invade/save it but to scorch the planet and ensure this time it stayed dead.