Technology Levels

[TheWanderer]

Hello everyone! I'm The Wanderer, a self-taught Game Master of my own RPG for over ten years (I didn't realize that what I was doing WAS an RPG until last year). I'm just now starting to try to buy/read "Official" RPG books to get ideas on how to improve my decade-old system. Now that the pleasantries are out of the way; on to my question!



I've always been a writer first, my Adventures that became my RPG stemmed from the stories I wrote. I only started watching Doctor Who in January of 2014, started with NuWho S1 E1 and went from there. By E2, I was in love. Now I've seen NuWho S1-S7 four times, and S8 twice. I was fascinated by The Shadow Proclamation technology level table (Earth being a Level 5 planet and all that) and was excited when I read a review of DWAITAS and found that it had expanded the chart. I can't find it anywhere though, and I don't want to spend $20 on the GM guide just for one chart. Is there any way anybody could post the list of Tech Levels and how to determine what level a Civilization is at? I need it for a story I'm writing, and I'm sure the Table will be useful in the future. Thanks in advance, stay savvy mates!

[Catsmate]

TL1:    Stone Age                                            fire, tools, containers, shelters
TL2:    Bronze Age to Middle Ages                       metal-working, record keeping
TL3:    Renaissance (15th to 17th centuries)        clockwork, steel, firearms   
TL4:    Industrial (18th-20th centuries)               Scientific Method, steam, telegraphy, powered vehicles
TL5:    Space Faring (late 20th century)             nuclear energy, reaction engine spaceflight, cloning, genemodification, energy weapons
TL6:    Star Faring                                          FTL spaceflight, transmat
TL7:    Advanced Interstellar                            
TL8:    Time Faring (51st century)
TL9:    Advanced Time Faring
TL10:   Time Lord
TL:11   Ancient Time Lord
TL12:   Beyond Comprehension

Hope this helps.

[TheWanderer]

Jun 3, 2015 10:57:22 GMT Catsmate said:

TL1:    Stone Age                                            fire, tools, containers, shelters
TL2:    Bronze Age to Middle Ages                       metal-working, record keeping
TL3:    Renaissance (15th to 17th centuries)        clockwork, steel, firearms   
TL4:    Industrial (18th-20th centuries)               Scientific Method, steam, telegraphy, powered vehicles
TL5:    Space Faring (late 20th century)             nuclear energy, reaction engine spaceflight, cloning, genemodification, energy weapons
TL6:    Star Faring                                          FTL spaceflight, transmat
TL7:    Advanced Interstellar                            
TL8:    Time Faring (51st century)
TL9:    Advanced Time Faring
TL10:   Time Lord
TL:11   Ancient Time Lord
TL12:   Beyond Comprehension

Hope this helps.

That does help, thank you very much! I tried to make my own scale (based on the fact that Earth now is Level 5) but it wasn't as complete at this. Thanks again, I will get good use out of this.

[Marnal]

Annoyingly the Dr Who novel "Shada" listed the Time Lords as level 12. :-(

[da professor]

Jun 3, 2015 14:15:53 GMT Marnal said:

Annoyingly the Dr Who novel "Shada" listed the Time Lords as level 12. :-(

Maybe that was on a different scale which has fallen into disuse with the rise of the Shadow Proclamation.

[Marnal]

Well they referred to Earth as being Level 5 in the same book.

[Catsmate]

Jun 4, 2015 16:02:35 GMT Marnal said:

Well they referred to Earth as being Level 5 in the same book.

And in "Voyage of the Damned".

[da professor]

Two different scales for measuring the same thing can have points of overlap, especially if what is being measured is complex or qualitative, either of which may be said of a cultures level of technology.

[Catsmate]

Jun 5, 2015 12:44:23 GMT da professor said:

Two different scales for measuring the same thing can have points of overlap, especially if what is being measured is complex or qualitative, either of which may be said of a cultures level of technology.

True, just look at the other 'technology level' scales used in RPGs like Traveller and GURPS (3rd and 4th editions). There were/are similar scales used in CORPS/Time Lords, Star Trek and the previous Doctor Who RPGs.

The Traveller scale gives more flexibility, splitting it into Energy, Transportation, Computing, Communications, Medical, Environmental and Weaponry.

Plus a society's technology doesn't really represent how well they'd handle interactions with aliens anyway.

[Escher]

It's also worth noting that in the official Sourcebooks, TL's are also differentiated by a written descriptor next to the TL number. From the Second Doctor Sourcebook:

Victoria Waterfield
TL 4  Mid 19th Century

Jamie McCrimmon
TL 4  Mid 18th Century

Ben Jackson & Polly Wright
TL5   1966

[Catsmate]

Jun 6, 2015 14:24:45 GMT Escher said:

It's also worth noting that in the official Sourcebooks, TL's are also differentiated by a written descriptor next to the TL number. From the Second Doctor Sourcebook:

Victoria Waterfield
TL 4  Mid 19th Century

Jamie McCrimmon
TL 4  Mid 18th Century

Ben Jackson & Polly Wright
TL5   1966

Yeah the Tech Level scale is pretty coarse. There's a significant difference between James and Victoria home eras, despite both being TL4. Telegraphy and steam for a start.

[Catsmate]

Perhaps a more granular system with fractional tech levels might be of use? Given (say) TL5 covers everything from the UNIT era to the pre-interstellar future.

[misterharry]

Jun 9, 2015 13:12:18 GMT Catsmate said:

Perhaps a more granular system with fractional tech levels might be of use? Given (say) TL5 covers everything from the UNIT era to the pre-interstellar future.

The thing is DWAITAS isn't intended to be a granular system. It promotes ease of play and storytelling over realism. In the case of tech Levels, there is also the issue of what effect would introducing more TLs have. The penalty for using tech at a lower level that your own is -1 per level (when trying to use more primitive technology) and -2 per level (for more advanced technology). By breaking it down into a greater number of tech levels, you'd make it far more difficult to succeed at using technology out of your own time, which I feel goes against the spirit of Doctor Who.

[Catsmate]

Jun 9, 2015 14:21:17 GMT misterharry said:

Jun 9, 2015 13:12:18 GMT Catsmate said:

Perhaps a more granular system with fractional tech levels might be of use? Given (say) TL5 covers everything from the UNIT era to the pre-interstellar future.

The thing is DWAITAS isn't intended to be a granular system. It promotes ease of play and storytelling over realism. In the case of tech Levels, there is also the issue of what effect would introducing more TLs have. The penalty for using tech at a lower level that your own is -1 per level (when trying to use more primitive technology) and -2 per level (for more advanced technology). By breaking it down into a greater number of tech levels, you'd make it far more difficult to succeed at using technology out of your own time, which I feel goes against the spirit of Doctor Who.

Yeah it's the whole crunchy/chewy thing. You're right about the problem with skill penalties.
Though I know people in RL who'd have skill penalties with technology a few years different from that they're used to...

[Stormcrow]

Jun 9, 2015 14:21:17 GMT misterharry said:

The thing is DWAITAS isn't intended to be a granular system.

Exactly. The rules remain vague while expecting you to be specific as needed.

He's from 2015, she's from 1980. They're both TL 5, but he knows how to use the Internet.

He's a guitar-player from London with a Craft of 3. He get the full 3 when playing an instrument, but he has no experience building boats, so when he comes to a river and needs to get across it, his Craft counts as 0.

She's a skilled anthropologist and botanist, with a Knowledge of 5 and an Area of Expertise in Anthropology. She was never much a reader of fiction, however, so when she suddenly needs to talk about nineteenth century literature, she counts as Knowledge 0.

Those numbers on your character sheet only apply to the background you specified for the character.

[Escher]

This is hardcore GM completeness and a little bit of conversion is needed, but I find these great for adding realism to the game:

www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Low-Tech/
www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/High-Tech/


Here are some examples of what I'm talking about. These especially can provide flavour to classic Doctor adventures and really add flavour to using science, technology and craft skills in a game. Note these contain text from the supplements with conversions for DWAITAS.


Nitro

Nitro-glycerine can be extracted by boiling dynamite and skimming the nitro-glycerine off the top. It requires a Tricky (15) Ingenuity + Science roll. An area of expertise in chemistry will help greatly here.
A failure ruins the dynamite. A bad failure, however, blows up half its weight. A disastrous failure blows it all up.

Making Black Powder
Producing black powder requires the ingredients, a few basic tools (mainly storage containers, and a mortar and pestle for grinding), and a successful Normal (12) Ingenuity+ Science roll. An Area of Expertise in Chemistry helps. Success yields meal powder or serpentine.
Dampening this, pressing it into cakes, and drying and grinding the cakes gives corned powder.

Making Plastic Explosives
Producing home-made plastic explosives requires $50 in raw materials per pound, 12 hours’ work, and a Tricky (15) Ingenuity + Science roll (AOE Chemistry will help). Failure means the plastique is unstable (-3 modifier to all rolls to use the stuff), weak (halve damage), smelly (detected on an Awareness roll), and/or inert (simply won’t blow up). A Disastrous failure blows the whole bloody lot up in your face.

[Catsmate]

Jun 9, 2015 21:10:19 GMT Escher said:

This is hardcore GM completeness and a little bit of conversion is needed, but I find these great for adding realism to the game:

www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Low-Tech/
www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/High-Tech/


Here are some examples of what I'm talking about. These especially can provide flavour to classic Doctor adventures and really add flavour to using science, technology and craft skills in a game. Note these contain text from the supplements with conversions for DWAITAS.


Nitro

Nitro-glycerine can be extracted by boiling dynamite and skimming the nitro-glycerine off the top. It requires a Tricky (15) Ingenuity + Science roll. An area of expertise in chemistry will help greatly here.
A failure ruins the dynamite. A bad failure, however, blows up half its weight. A disastrous failure blows it all up.

Making Black Powder
Producing black powder requires the ingredients, a few basic tools (mainly storage containers, and a mortar and pestle for grinding), and a successful Normal (12) Ingenuity+ Science roll. An Area of Expertise in Chemistry helps. Success yields meal powder or serpentine.
Dampening this, pressing it into cakes, and drying and grinding the cakes gives corned powder.

Making Plastic Explosives
Producing home-made plastic explosives requires $50 in raw materials per pound, 12 hours’ work, and a Tricky (15) Ingenuity + Science roll (AOE Chemistry will help). Failure means the plastique is unstable (-3 modifier to all rolls to use the stuff), weak (halve damage), smelly (detected on an Awareness roll), and/or inert (simply won’t blow up). A Disastrous failure blows the whole bloody lot up in your face.

Of course if you're stuck in the past things can be more difficult (I considered doing something on 'jump starting' technology as an extension to this post a while ago) because the ingredients aren't easily available.. The real problem is getting the ingredients for 'modern' compounds in the past. If a traveller has access to a source of electricity they can produce quite a range of materials by electrolysis (even nitric acid from peat) but the details of something like this is more suited to GURPS than DWAITAS.