Does the Universe Explode?

[barefoottourguide]

I'm finishing writing up my four Doctor extravaganza and found myself wondering: if the 10th, 11th, War Doctor and 12th Doctor are together... and one or more of them gets killed or sacrifices themselves... what happens? Time loops? Universe exploding? Ideas. Players being players, something like this might come up, and I want to be prepared with an answer.

Garrett

[Hedgewick]

That's a great question. Here's an idea. My first reaction is to say that I would seize this opportunity to do something with the Valeyard. Because, honestly, where does the Valeyard come from? If he exists "between" regenerations, at what point does he come into being? If we consider him a link in the chain of regenerations and not an entirely separate individual, there are possibilities.

If all four of these Doctors were together and one of them were to "die," one admittedly convoluted way of suggesting that the universe maintains his personal timeline is to allow the Valeyard--or a personality much like the Valeyard, or the Dream Lord--to emerge at this unique temporal opportunity. Perhaps the paradox presented by the death of the Doctor allows the Valeyard to become the dominant personality, to take over that incarnation for the rest of the game. There would have to be all sorts of Gallifreyan mumbo-jumbo used to justify it, of course, but it might present a fun solution. Would the player be forced to then play as an evil, dark shadow of the Doctor? Would this introduce an unexpected NPC enemy to the proceedings? How can the Valeyard be defeated in a way that resolves the paradox?

Of course, it's also possible that this would needlessly complicate things instead of simply resolving the problem!

[Marnal]

For what its worth, in "The Five Doctors" when his younger incarnations are pulled out of their respective histories and their survival becomes increasingly unlikely the 5th Doctor starts to weaken and then fade in and out of existence. Once he and his companions manage to intervene enough that its likely that his younger selves will survive he pops back into full existence. Presumably if they hadn't been able to get the Doctor's history back on something close to its original track the 5th Doctor would have faded away entirely.

[jennysfan]

Isn't something like this the whole reason the 6th Doctor goes back to rescue 2nd in the 'The Two Doctors'?
Because he feels someone messing with his past self?

Paradoxes like this are bound to happen in any Time Travel rpg. How it is handled is obviously up to a GM, but it shouldn't get in the way of a story. It can drive the story ("Quick we have to save Pat, or I might not exist"), but getting in the way is a different matter ("Sorry Colin, but you can't play anymore until someone saves Pat").
Heck, even charging story points to Act in a scene, (not Talk, but take Action as the combat manoeuvres), can be pushing it, depending on how they want to play it.

[Doctor X]

The Valeyard could have been an unforeseen side-effect of 11's regeneration. Except when River did it in "Let's Kill Hitler," regeneration hadn't been used offensively before, and she hadn't been infused with a new regeneration cycle by the Time Lords. Using it to wipe out the Dalek fleet could have even sent the energy back in time, where it latched onto someone close to The Doctor's heart (Barnable leaps to mind.) and transformed HIM into The Valeyard.

[barefoottourguide]

You could do whole campaign with that idea, doctor x
garrett

[jennysfan]

...it could even be run as a 'Time-Lord lite' game, seeing as the individual in question could be 'unwell' enough from the paradox/discharge that s/he couldn't really leave the TARDIS.

[Catsmate]

Aug 6, 2014 20:17:56 GMT barefoottourguide said:

I'm finishing writing up my four Doctor extravaganza and found myself wondering: if the 10th, 11th, War Doctor and 12th Doctor are together... and one or more of them gets killed or sacrifices themselves... what happens? Time loops? Universe exploding? Ideas. Players being players, something like this might come up, and I want to be prepared with an answer.

Garrett

Perhaps someone is required to go and fix the paradox ('A Paradox must be ParaDoctored'¹). The Time Lords (if available) intervene and order that the problem be fixed, by the other incarnations, companions or by someone else.

One question is how much time do they have? Is it dependent on the 'distance' between the possibly deceased incarnation and the later one(s) perhaps?

Aug 7, 2014 21:03:04 GMT Marnal said:

For what its worth, in "The Five Doctors" when his younger incarnations are pulled out of their respective histories and their survival becomes increasingly unlikely the 5th Doctor starts to weaken and then fade in and out of existence. Once he and his companions manage to intervene enough that its likely that his younger selves will survive he pops back into full existence. Presumably if they hadn't been able to get the Doctor's history back on something close to its original track the 5th Doctor would have faded away entirely.

Something like this happened in The Two Doctors also. At least Doctor⁶ seemed to be effected by what happened to Doctor², noticeably the Androgum infusion.

Aug 26, 2014 14:38:37 GMT barefoottourguide said:

You could do whole campaign with that idea, doctor x
garrett

Absolutely. Perhaps the echoes of the potential paradox weaken reality a bit, attracting nasties from nearby dimensions, or possible future Doctors (good or not) or Doctor's from alternate universes. Who may "help"...

Aug 27, 2014 4:03:38 GMT jennysfan said:

...it could even be run as a 'Time-Lord lite' game, seeing as the individual in question could be 'unwell' enough from the paradox/discharge that s/he couldn't really leave the TARDIS.

I like it. A 'remote control' scenario, with the Doctor (or whomever) available only for consultation via a communications device, or by bringing stuff to him. Very '24'.
I did something like this once where the Time Lord was shot and injured and needed to use the medical systems to recover, while directing his minions (and a drone) to investigate.

It rather reminds me of the Hartnell/Troughton era when the actor popped off on holiday and was missing for an episode.

Maybe the TARDIS helps insulate him from the paradox (wasn't this detailed in one of the FASA scenarios? The 'PAST' system IIRR).





¹ Sorry I couldn't resist. And apologies to the spirit of Heinlein.