Marvel super heroes

[sillyelf]

I was wondering if anyone has created a Marvel game using the Vortex system? With characters such as Thor, Hulk etc As well as the X-men?

And if so, how did you handle the strength aspect?

Thanks.

[Marnal]

Given that this system is designed to minimize the differences between Time Lords and normal humans, (and between super aliens and normal humans) my hunch is that it wouldn't work very well for a supers campaign as you usually want there to be a huge gulf between supers and the norms. The only way to combat this would be to give the supers very very high stats [I'm thinking 9 and up]. Otherwise you have a normal human beating Thor at arm wrestling just by rolling well with his story point.

Now if you are only doing super heroes vs super villains [or you want Batman to have a chance against Superman] then it could work - but my suspicion is there are better systems out there for Marvel.

[sillyelf]

Thanks.

I was hoping there was a way to use Vortex because the way the rules are constructed promotes Role playing as opposed to just having mega gaming with over statted characters. oh well nice idea

[chrisbs]

Any game is what you make of it. That's the great thing about systems ... just tweak them to what you want.

Run house rules - change the rules to fit what you want.

That's what we have always done, and you can play just about anything with any system.

[misterharry]

I'd also suggest you change the order of the action round from that used in DWAITAS, which puts Fighting last in the order of actions (not particularly representative of superheroes). Maybe use the Primeval RPG for this.

[Curufea]

I'd recommend FATE rather than Vortex for Supers to encourage roleplaying. It already includes stats of very high levels - and powers can often be emulated with stunts (I'm sure that there are resources online for superhero FATE games as well - will look up shortly)

The key similarity to DWAITAS/Vortex is the use of Fate points - similar but of less impact than Story points to plots.

What I find useful in FATE for the promotion of roleplaying is the use of aspects. You not only need to think creatively to make them up in the first place - but on each occasion you wish to use them you need to be creative - "So, how can I use my 'hunted by Nazis' aspect to help me fly this zepellin..."

Here we go-
forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?543960-FATE-and-Superheroes
evilhat.wikidot.com/community-fate-core-extensions#toc12

[sillyelf]

Thanks for the ideas.
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Yes i was considering using both DWAITAS and Primeval rule set. The powers themselves are pretty easy to recreate using vortex, it's the strength/damage aspect that has me scratching my head. How much much damage would a being like Thor or the hulk do? Lightning from Mjölnir would be in the range of 30/60/90. (based this damage from the damage of the main gun of a tank. (listed in Primeval corebook) And yes it does seem a tad excessive.
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Unfortunately i've never been able to get along with the FATE system.
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Probably going to use Cinematic Unisystem or just avoid using heavy hitters in the game and keep it to low level characters.

Thanks again.

[brainsnaffler]

Personally, I really strive to get players to think about their characters and prioritise roleplaying over dice rolling. As such, I love the Vortex system, and I've never played FATE, but I've heard good things about it.

There is a similar system to FATE that actually has been used for Marvel. It's Cortex system by Margaret Weis. Unfortunately, the game has just been decommissioned (I think because they just couldn't keep up with the storylines), but I think the system is the best one I've played for Marvel so far. What I love is that it allows you to creatively come up with ways to beat opponents, interact with the environment, and also rewards players for behaving like the heroes would.

You can pick the game up easily from drive thru RPG and hard copies are no doubt available on ebay

[thewarchief]

Dec 18, 2013 18:22:19 GMT sillyelf said:

Thanks.

I was hoping there was a way to use Vortex because the way the rules are constructed promotes Role playing as opposed to just having mega gaming with over statted characters. oh well nice idea

Well, it could be done. It just requires the GM to do a lot more work than usual, since he would have to cover a lot of stuff that isn't addressed in the Doctor Who RPG. And be careful to keep things playable.


As far as the Strength aspect goes, the Doctor Who RPG uses a doubling progression for Strength, based on the characters only body weight/mass. Assuming that an average human male has a mass of about 70kg this would work out as follows:


STR 3(40kg)
STR 4(80kg)
STR 5(160kg)
STR 6(320kg) - about what Haweye can lift
-------------
STR 7 (640kg)
STR 8 (1280kg) - about what Captain America can lift
STR 9 (2.5 tons)
STR 10 (5 tons) - about what Ghost Rider can lift
STR 11 (10 tons) -about what Tigra can lift
STR 12 (20 tons) - about what Spider-man can lift
STR 13 (40 tons) -about what Nova can lift
STR 14 (80 tons) - about what the Rhino can lift, or the Golden Avenger Iron Man
STR 15 (160 tons) - about what a really angry Hulk can lift.

Now DC characters requires extending the table even further. I think Superman current STR would be around STR 60.


Just from the STR progression we can see some of the hurdles that a GM would need to address. For example, should the GM factor in a character's mass into the STR? That would mean that if two characters could lift the same weight, the lighter character would end up stronger.

[Escher]

Here are my thoughts, as I was considering using Vortex for Supers too.

There is a way to do it, but you’ll have to do some testing to make the comic book damage work. This is an info dump so apologies for the formatting if it's a bit rough.



For powers try this:

Stick to the Minor/Major/Special Trait system but create a Super Traits list.

e.g

Super Strength [Minor]

If you have the FATE Dresden Files or the Marvel Heroic Roleplaying RPG there are already examples you can hack.


Examples adapted from Marvel Heroic Roleplaying:


Attack Powers (Blasts, Weapons etc.)

At [Minor], the power is roughly equivalent to small arms fire or dangerous close combat weapons.

At [Major] the power is capable of greater injury or harm, roughly equivalent to automatic weapons or small explosives.

At [Major x2], the power is equivalent to heavy explosives or lightning bolts.

At [Special], the power is truly devastating, even if the area of effect isn’t widespread.

So you can see this isn't as simple as damage levels e.g. [2/4/6].


Movement Powers (Flight, Running, Swimming)

At Speed [Minor], you can run as fast as the world’s fastest humans; Flight is the speed of a hawk or news chopper.

At Speed [Major], you can run at the speed of a horse; with Flight [Major], you can fly as fast as a missile or passenger airliner.

At Speed [Major x2], you’re faster than a bullet train; with Flight [Major x2], you can fly as fast as a jet fighter.

At Speed [Special] , you can travel around the world in moments; Flight [Special] permits swift interplanetary travel.



Elemental Control

Elemental Control [Minor] gives minor or basic control: extinguishing all the candle flames in a room; cooling the air in a room; shorting out household appliances.

Elemental Control [Major] gives significant local control: extinguishing a burning room; snap-freezing the air in a room; shorting out a building’s electrical system.

Elemental Control [Major x2] provides citywide control: extinguishing a burning skyscraper; freezing over a city street; bringing down a city’s power grid.

Elemental Control [Special] provides regional control: extinguishing a forest fire; freezing over Lake Michigan; rerouting the national power grid.


Super Strength

Super Strength [Minor] allows you to turn over cars, break through solid barriers, and bend ordinary iron bars.

Super Strength [Major] allows you to lift and throw vehicles, smash through stone and metal, and tear apart most barriers.

Super Strength [Special] confers the power to hurl objects into orbit, push over tall buildings, and demolish most structures.


(Note, you could work out something based on the Strength rules used by massive strength creatures in the Primeval book).


I'd keep basic strength, as a means to describe build e.g. The Hulk might have Strength 6 and Super Strength [Special], Spider-Man might have
Strength 4 and Super Strength [Minor]. That kind of thing.
Again, how comic book damage would work would be a feat of game design, so you will need to work out a damage system. No mean feat. Also it would not be compatible with the basic Vortex system so you might not be able to run a Spider-Man Doctor Who crossover.

Also, Story Points are a potential means of simulating comic book action, used for activating powers or some other mechanic.


It’s a considerable amount of work and playtesting.


Edit:

You could have powers give base damage or effect (before successes) as:

Minor [5]
Major [10]
Major x2 [15]
Special [20]

e.g

Ensnare
You can atttack your target with an entangling attack that subtracts its damage from the target's Coordination.

[sillyelf]

Thanks Guys
This stuff is really useful.

[Curufea]

I'd also recommend having a look at the Hero System if you want crunchy rules to define powers in a more customised and balanced way - and rather than using the Hero System to run the game, look at the active points cost (jargon for that system) and translate that into Minor/Major/Special

It is the best system I've come across to simulate custom superheroes and balance them - but it is also one of the most rules heavy number crunching ones.

[sillyelf]

Thanks for all your help.

I'm using the old MSH by tsr for my basic reference. In the adventure i'm writing the PC's are pretty much normal levels but i want them to interact with the Avengers. And 'hack' into Stark Ind' to acquire some technology that will allow the PC's 'repair' their Vortex Manipulator so they can return to their own universe. This is very simplified, but you get the general idea. The supers are going to be the opposition. And with unstable npc's such as Stark and Sentry being the heavy hitters the PC's are most likely stumble into, with the possiblity of Sentinels if the PC's decide that heading to Xavier's might suit their needs.

Most of the powers are fairly easy to simulate using DWAITAS and Primeval. I've turned most of the powers into skills to be used with resolve, coordination etc, so i can maintain balance. The test's i've ran suggest that it will work with only a few glitches.

Thanks again.

[thewarchief]

Ah, you're running a crossover. That's a bit different than using the system to run a full on Supers RPG.

For a crossover, you might want to take a page from the early years of Doctor Who, when the series would stay into fantasy. You may want to "protect" regular continuity you might want to pull the characters out of normal spacetime, and into some sort of outside realm. That way you can get away with a lot more without accidentally creating any problems that could come back to haunt you later on in your campaign. It also helps you in that should something go horribly wrong in the adventure, you can have the PCs "wake up" from the adventure (maybe only after the survivors solve the adventure). A fantasy/fictional element, if explained as such, also makes it easier for your players to accept things that they might otherwise balk at.

The old Second Doctor story, the Mind Robber might be something to consider basing your story on. Party because in that story Zoe Heriot meets and defeats a fictional Superhero, the Karkus.

Oh, and if you want, I could probably come up with some stats for Iron Man armor. Something like that is actually much easier to write up in the Doctor Who RPG, since it's as much a Science Fiction item (read gadget) as it is a Superpower.

[sillyelf]

Yes, it's very much a crossover. When the PC's arrive in Marvel Universe the teleportation part of the Vortex Manip' will break but they will still be able to use the other functions. I'm hoping the players figure out that they will be able to use it to hack into Ironman's armour which will give the PC's an edge that will give them a fighting chance.

I'm currently writing two adventures ahead so i have time to work out any kinks. The campaign it's self is long standing so i don't have problems with overall timeline. The olny the group lacks is a relatively heavy hitter. Which will be sorted out in the adventure before the PC's hit the Marvel Universe. I'm sending them to Sunnydale around the time Willow activates all the potential Slayers. (Yep got a young female PC in the group)

Thanks again for the help