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Post by drew on Dec 20, 2009 19:51:03 GMT
I personally will NOT be allowing the Doctor as a PC, whoever plays him cannot possibly live up to other peoples (or his own) expectations - possibly leading to dissapointment for the player and (Rasilon forbid) the group.
Though I LOVE the new Series, they have flogged the idea of the Doctor being the Last of Time Lords to death now - its time for the Time Lords themselves to return in some form or another.
As I mentioned on my Blog, one option I personally favour is a new Gallifreyan colony made up of survivors of the Time War (much like the Vulcan colony in the new Star Trek Movie), as IMHO deciding there were no Gallifreyan survivors was wrong of them.
If a savage and degenerate race of beings such as the Daleks can survive the Time War, are the producers of New Who really insisiting that ALL the Time Lords (excepting the Doctor, Jenny, and the Master) are indeed dead. Claiming that a Race of beings so technologically advanced (after all they are' Lords of Time') and ingenious, with such a strong penchant for durability (are we supposed to believe an insideous and devious intellect such as the Rani, isn't going to do her best to survive) aren't going to exist somewhere sometime . . . .
Assuming 'New Galifrey' exists, the new High Council (possibly out of desperation) would more than likely re-instate the Celestial Intervention Agency - but this time they would have a new mission objective, to ensure the survival of the Time Lord culture and race.
Rather than continuing their original function as Spies and infitrators (It was said about the CIA that they "don't even know which side they're on") doing covert jobs for the High Council.
Now, onto what am I actually ranting on about.
For me at least, as far as running games for the new Dr Who RPG - I shall be IGNORING some of the the rather daft established 'new' continuity - use what you want, and ignore the rest.
They have already established that "Time is in Flux", and that things can (and do) change - the Master survives, Paradox Machines can alter reality, the Rani MIGHT be around too, plus you never know WHAT they might add and change on a whim.
As I've said many times before (to many friends, family, and on my Blog) - the Doctor, Last of the Time Lords . . . . . Really?
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Post by Curufea on Dec 20, 2009 21:30:25 GMT
Even in the old series with or without reference to the novels - the continuity is inconsistent. This is pretty much where I see that Faction Paradox lives. Any lack of continuity, or any "canon" history you don't like, can be whisked away as an alternate timeline - the Faction has corrupted the Web of Time yet again  |
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Post by doctorflea on Dec 20, 2009 21:41:23 GMT
Even in the old series with or without reference to the novels - the continuity is inconsistent. This is pretty much where I see that Faction Paradox lives. Any lack of continuity, or any "canon" history you don't like, can be whisked away as an alternate timeline - the Faction has corrupted the Web of Time yet again Simply put there is no canon in Doctor Who - the show was created before such a concept was brought into the general consciousness. And given that the show revolves around travel in time and space ( and across dimensions and alternate realities) anything written or created for the Whoniverse could be true... Check this essay out: teatimebrutality.blogspot.com/2009/07/canon-and-sheep-shit-why-we-fight.htmlAnd ignoring canon should count double for gamers anyway - this is our game and we can do what we like with it ( it's not as if we're selling it to an audience or have to answer to RTD/BBC/cranky fans etc) Just my two pence worth...  |
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Post by Null and Void on Dec 20, 2009 21:44:16 GMT
Even in the old series with or without reference to the novels - the continuity is inconsistent. This is pretty much where I see that Faction Paradox lives. Any lack of continuity, or any "canon" history you don't like, can be whisked away as an alternate timeline - the Faction has corrupted the Web of Time yet again Simply put there is no canon in Doctor Who - the show was created before such a concept was brought into the general consciousness. And given that the show revolves around travel in time and space ( and across dimensions and alternate realities) anything written or created for the Whoniverse could be true... Check this essay out: teatimebrutality.blogspot.com/2009/07/canon-and-sheep-shit-why-we-fight.htmlAnd ignoring canon should count double for gamers anyway - this is our game and we can do what we like with it ( it's not as if we're selling it to an audience or have to answer to RTD/BBC/cranky fans etc) Just my two pence worth... Heheh... seems like we've had this conversation before. |
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Post by doctorflea on Dec 20, 2009 21:47:42 GMT
Heheh... seems like we've had this conversation before. D'oh! Sorry about that  But hopefully it's new to some of the others here... |
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Post by drew on Dec 20, 2009 21:49:36 GMT
Absolutely, the Great Fire of London is one great example.
The Great Fire of London was started as a result of a Terileptil weapon overloading in London in 1666, the resulting explosion destroyed the building located in Pudding Lane in The Visitation - and yet the 4th Doctor had also earlier implied involvement in this event in the Pyramids of Mars.
BUT according to the New Series, Time is in Flux - In The Unquiet Dead, the Doctor tells Rose that time is in flux, and history can change instantly - so technically both events caused by the 4th and 5th Doctors are not exclusive. Though the later event would cancel out the earlier, leaving the Doctor once more part of his own created Paradox.
In both the Pyramids of Mars and Remembrance of the Daleks it is stated that "history is capable of being changed by very powerful beings" - such as the White Guardian, the Osirans, and even Rasilon.
Involving any such powerful entities in a Campaign could change the current 'reality' allowing multiple Time-Lord Characters.
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Post by Null and Void on Dec 20, 2009 21:53:17 GMT
Heheh... seems like we've had this conversation before. D'oh! Sorry about that But hopefully it's new to some of the others here... Nah, its fine, Doc. Its one of those subjects that always shows up given infinite time and space. Canon has been interpreted a number of different ways. Whether those ways are accurate or not is another arguement. But, for purposes of a game, the only canon that matters is 'What will provide the most fun?' -Cousin Null |
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Post by doctorflea on Dec 20, 2009 21:57:22 GMT
But, for purposes of a game, the only canon that matters is 'What will provide the most fun?' -Cousin Null Never a truer word said!  |
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Post by drew on Dec 20, 2009 21:58:29 GMT
Simply put there is no canon in Doctor Who - the show was created before such a concept was brought into the general consciousness. That maybe so for Classic Who, although according to Barry Letts when I met him years ago they still had 'guidelines' that they expected writers to stick to. Even the Doctor Who TV Movie, which never even made it to full-blown series (as was the original intent) had a 'Bible' entitled "The Chronicles Of Doctor Who". Knowing how Producers like to keep control, I would LOVE to read the BBC Wales one LoL! I'll bet there are some fascinating tidbits in there that never reached the screen. |
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Post by Eryx on Dec 20, 2009 22:35:07 GMT
Absolutely, the Great Fire of London is one great example. The Great Fire of London was started as a result of a Terileptil weapon overloading in London in 1666, the resulting explosion destroyed the building located in Pudding Lane in The Visitation - and yet the 4th Doctor had also earlier implied involvement in this event in the Pyramids of Mars. To be fair to the Doctor, I get the impression that he isn't above making himself out to seem better and more impressive to his companions. Mentioning points in history as though they were his involvement when he had yet to do so. Or maybe as a Time Lord he was aware that in some way, shape or form, he would be involved? |
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Post by drew on Dec 20, 2009 22:43:02 GMT
[To be fair to the Doctor, I get the impression that he isn't above making himself out to seem better and more impressive to his companions. Mentioning points in history as though they were his involvement when he had yet to do so. Or maybe as a Time Lord he was aware that in some way, shape or form, he would be involved? That would depend entirely on which Doctor you are referring to! Would the 3rd or the 6th Doctor do that, almost definitely. Would the 4th or 5th, I'm pretty sure no. The 4th Doctor was quite humble, and the 5th terribly insecure. |
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Post by Curufea on Dec 20, 2009 23:52:30 GMT
I dunno - the 4th didn't suffer fools gladly when under stress. But otherwise was humble.
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Post by allivingstone on Dec 21, 2009 2:10:09 GMT
The Great Fire of London was started as a result of a Terileptil weapon overloading in London in 1666, the resulting explosion destroyed the building located in Pudding Lane in The Visitation - and yet the 4th Doctor had also earlier implied involvement in this event in the Pyramids of Mars. BUT according to the New Series, Time is in Flux - In The Unquiet Dead, the Doctor tells Rose that time is in flux, and history can change instantly - so technically both events caused by the 4th and 5th Doctors are not exclusive. Though the later event would cancel out the earlier, leaving the Doctor once more part of his own created Paradox. Another way to look at it is this: The first three Doctors met the 5th in The Five Doctors (which comes after The Visitation in the 5th Doctor's timeline), and they entered telepathic communion IIRC. This means that the 4th could potentially remember something of events at Pudding Lane in his 5th incarnation, despite not having personally experienced them. Timey-wimey, I know. Take the telepathic link idea and consider the events of Time Crash. The Doctor has potentially known some/much/all of what his 10th incarnation knows ever since his 5th incarnation! Consider what that would mean for everything that happens after Time Crash (from the perspective of the 5th). For instance, Time Crash establishes that the 5th knows the Master to still be alive and without a 'rubbish beard'. Is it just me, or is this line of reasoning actually scary? The Doctor, trapped by his own foreknowledge, is doomed to follow the railroad tracks of destiny until.... What I like about this idea is that it means everything we think we know about The Doctor is thrown open to question and reinterpretation. Continually. |
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Post by Curufea on Dec 21, 2009 2:27:51 GMT
Is it just me, or is this line of reasoning actually scary? The Doctor, trapped by his own foreknowledge, is doomed to follow the railroad tracks of destiny until.... This is the basic idea behind the Dune sequel "Dune Messiah" - where Paul develops his prescience ability to such an extent, that it doesn't matter whether he is blind or not. There's a good short story on this subject too - in my favourite anthology of all time - "The Story of Your Life and Others" - in which the only way for human linguists to understand an alien language is to realise that the writing is 4th dimensional - and with that understanding they obtain the ability to realise that linear time is just a matter of perception. However - to be able to learn that, they must also be the kind of person that would never create a paradox or change their decisions based on foreknowledge. |
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Post by allenshock on Dec 21, 2009 2:40:31 GMT
On the subject of Time Lord survivors...to quote a character from Jason Vey's excellent Unisystem Doctor Who sourcebook, "every war has it's refugees". It's unlikely, actually, that all the Time Lords died. But, given the score that a lot of races might want to settle with Time Lords, and the loss of their technological support base, I'm betting such survivors as there are used their Chameleon Arches and went into hiding. Now there might not be many - a few hundred at most- and some of them might be deserters or the like, but at least in my game they do exist...its just that most of them are in hiding and plan to stay that way.
Allen
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Post by drew on Dec 21, 2009 10:06:32 GMT
On the subject of Time Lord survivors...to quote a character from Jason Vey's excellent Unisystem Doctor Who sourcebook, "every war has it's refugees". It's unlikely, actually, that all the Time Lords died. But, given the score that a lot of races might want to settle with Time Lords, and the loss of their technological support base, I'm betting such survivors as there are used their Chameleon Arches and went into hiding. Now there might not be many - a few hundred at most- and some of them might be deserters or the like, but at least in my game they do exist...its just that most of them are in hiding and plan to stay that way. Allen A brilliant idea, that way you can have a distinct 'origin' for any Time Lord characters. |
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redwulf25ci
2nd Incarnation
The Oncoming Chaos
Posts: 23
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Post by redwulf25ci on Dec 24, 2009 6:05:13 GMT
On the subject of Time Lord survivors...to quote a character from Jason Vey's excellent Unisystem Doctor Who sourcebook, "every war has it's refugees". It's unlikely, actually, that all the Time Lords died. But, given the score that a lot of races might want to settle with Time Lords, and the loss of their technological support base, I'm betting such survivors as there are used their Chameleon Arches and went into hiding. Now there might not be many - a few hundred at most- and some of them might be deserters or the like, but at least in my game they do exist...its just that most of them are in hiding and plan to stay that way. Allen And lets not forget the Time Lord prison ship that held a Dalek Armada in the Void. It seems that some survivors could have fled there. Or worse, a prison ship of Time Lord criminals (if you want the ship to be a source of PC Time Lords as well as villains perhaps some were wrongly convicted). |
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Post by Rel Fexive on Dec 24, 2009 9:54:39 GMT
(if you want the ship to be a source of PC Time Lords as well as villains perhaps some were wrongly convicted). Although, considering the stuffiness of the Time Lords, the PCs could be rightly convicted of doing good, saving lives and defeating evil - you know, interfering. |
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Post by drew on Dec 26, 2009 1:37:44 GMT
(if you want the ship to be a source of PC Time Lords as well as villains perhaps some were wrongly convicted). Although, considering the stuffiness of the Time Lords, the PCs could be rightly convicted of doing good, saving lives and defeating evil - you know, interfering. Considering how the Time Lords are being portrayed in the modern "Whoniverse" I think you're right! |
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Post by da professor on Feb 21, 2010 12:41:48 GMT
It's more or less what Troughton's Doctor was convicted of at the end of the War Games.
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But hopefully it's new to some of the others here... 
