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Post by olegrand on Apr 16, 2013 14:55:05 GMT
OK, we all know that TARDISes were "grown, not made"... but IYHO how much time would it require to grow a complete, fully operational TARDIS (assuming you have all the necessary components etc.) ? I couldn't find information about this in the TTC or other official source (but I might have missed it : . Any ideas on the matter?
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
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Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
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Post by misterharry on Apr 16, 2013 15:08:06 GMT
I imagine that Marnal is the guy to give you a definitive response on this!
But in the meantime, I'll contribute that in the 8th Doctor novels, it took over a century for the Doctor's TARDIS to regrow itself from a small black cube. Then again, it wasn't in the comfort of the TARDIS nurseries on Gallifrey. Also, it was regrowing itself rather than growing from scratch. So it's probably not a representative example.
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Rassilon
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Post by Rassilon on Apr 16, 2013 16:56:23 GMT
Yes. From an official source too. No less than RTD. Deleted scene from 'Journey's End'. It takes a chunk of TARDIS and thousands of years to grow one but thanks to Doctor-Donna there's a way to accelerate the growth: "If you shatter-fry the plasmic shell and modify the dimensional stabilizer to a foldback harmonic of 36.3, you accelerate the growth power by 59".
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Post by Marnal on Apr 17, 2013 22:56:10 GMT
We have no real data for how long it takes the Black Hole Shipyards to conceive and grow a brand new TARDIS. BUT we do have lots of info on how long it takes to clone a TARDIS from a small sample of a pre-existing TARDIS. As my TARDIS Technical Index reports... "With a Dimensionally Transcendental Cradle to feed it this re-growth will only take a decade. Without it, the new TARDIS have to rely on some other source of artron energy, such as that generated by being close to a Time Lord. When limited in this way the TARDIS will take thousands of years grow up. The growth of the exo-shell will be limited to about 4 cubic inches per year. Once the capsule’s exo-shell has reached a size of about 2 cubic meters it will take about 90 years for its shell for its materialization beacon and to become active. Approximately 20 years after that point the regeneration mode will be completed and the TARDIS will allow the Time Lord entry." [and as mentioned by olegrand] "One way to accelerate this growth would be to find a source of energized morphologically unstable organic material. Depending on the power levels this could reduce the grow time to around a century. Similar results can be obtained by shatterfying the plasmic shell and modifying the dimensional stabilizers to a fold back harmonic of 36.3. This will accelerate its growth by a factor of 59. Continual exposure to Rift Energy can also help reduce the growth time to about 50 years." - Marnal Gate "I was told by the producer that the guiding principle was to make the scripts complex enough to keep the Kids interested and simple enough for the Adults to understand!" -Douglas Adams on writing Doctor Who For all things Time Lord see www.meshyfish.com/~roo/And for all things TARDIS see docs.google.com/file/d/0B6zjenFzzQn1MF9xeHNNS1M1akU/edit?pli=1
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Post by Pertwee on Apr 22, 2013 14:24:02 GMT
Let us not forget that TARDISes are only partly grown. Once the shell is complete (along with the heart, one presumes, because they need a machine that channels and thrives on 'living' Artron energy), Block Transfer computations are used to create the functional interfaces and systems.
The Doctor even believed that the TARDIS was mainly a machine at one point (recall his balking at the suggestion that it was trying to tell him something in 'Edge of Destruction'), and the only reason he knows otherwise now is that he is probably the only Time Lord to have spent almost a milennia in the same one, sharing many adventures and experiences with it. Most Time Lords 'check out' a TARDIS and then bring it back when necessary, and mothball or even scrap older models after a time, before they really have a chance to get 'old'.
I think all the advanced sentience we see in the Doctor's TARDIS is a natural function of immense growth and experience coupled with a partnership with a strong and specific Time Lord personality. It is implied in many classic series episodes that the Time Lords never realized just how 'living' these machines were until much later, possibly the Time War, because until then, they never really gave older units a a chance to mature.
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Post by chickenpaddy on Apr 22, 2013 18:07:10 GMT
I would like to point out that the deleted scene from Journey's End is completely non-canon. For good reason, too.
It kind of takes away form the concept of the TARDIS. If anybody could grow a fully functional temporal capsule from a small chunk of TARDIS... well, let's just say it'd be a weak point in the mythology.
If you want to grow a TARDIS in your campaign, as GM you have the power to make up whatever you want. Any length of time, any special conditions, and even any non-canon information you want to throw in.
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Post by garethl on Apr 22, 2013 18:37:21 GMT
Wasn't there a bit of Tardis on Captain Jack's desk in the Torchwood Hub? I vaguely remember something about him trying to grow his own Tardis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2013 21:57:22 GMT
Not everyone might be able to grow one and in game terms I'd say these are a fair limit on everyone having a go:
- Need Doctor-Donna's info
- Shatter frying & boffin stuff might need major resources/tech of a higher tech level which at Tech Level 5, would take a lot of work.
- Need Vortex Trait
- Need to know how to pilot it
and best of all
- the first non-Gallifreyan grown TARDIS might have some 'interesting' drawbacks or unforeseen requirements which could spawn a dozen adventures or more...
As a GM, I'd make the players work their backsides off for it and perhaps spread it's growth over 2-3 seasons with suitable arcs.
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Post by Marnal on Apr 24, 2013 20:23:19 GMT
The audios and novels (and even the TV series to a lesser degree) support the idea that many (‘all’ according to the audios) Time Lords have a permanently assigned TARDIS which is “theirs.” I’ve never seen anything to support the “TARDISes are checked out” theory, though it is possible for a Gallifreyan to buy one (according to the TV series) so rentals seem likely. Pertwee is right, that a Time Lord is likely to trade in or scrap their TARDIS well before it reaches the end of its useful life-span. The novels state that block-transfer mathematics are HOW a TARDIS grows. The protyon units use block-transfer mathematics to create (or “grow”) the interior and exterior shells, the Time Sceptre (including the Cloister Room), and the transducer power cells. Given that all this material is created via 'Trek replicator looking' block-transfer process (rather then cellular division like most life-forms) its not surprising that most Time Lords see their capsules as little more then very sophisticated machines. (As Petwee says) after a decade in the cradle, several pieces of exitonic circuitry are implanted into the TARDIS by Time Lords. These include the Temporal Drive, Chameleon Circuit and Gender circuits (XX circuits, if female, and XY circuits if male). I don’t believe any source has stated how long it takes to implant these interfaces, but it looks like the Time Lords would have a decade to construct them so they would likely be ready when the TARDIS was mature enough for the implantation to begin. As for the canonicity of the TARDIS Coral scene – IIRC Russell T. Davis said that he really liked that scene, and only removed it for pacing issues – not because of the implications of the continuity. Likewise Capt. Jack is seen trying to grow a TARDIS with coral in Torchwood (though this was only confirmed on the BBC website). So it seems like this idea has a lot of support from the creators of the show. As for it making it “too easy” for “anyone” to create a TARDIS - Both the War Lords (on screen) and the Nekkistani (in the audios) have produced TARDIS clones. So we know it does happen. The fact that its takes thousands of years of exposure to a Time Lord for a TARDIS cutting to grow into a fully functional TARDIS seems like quite a limitation to this process. Plus the temporal drive and other circuits will need to be constructed. To speed this process up one needs access to a source of energized morphologically unstable organic material or the energy of a temporal rift. And even after growing a TARDIS, one needs a Time Lord’s Rassilon Imprimiture (or a Symbiotic Bypass – which makes the capsule VERY difficult to navigate) to use it. - Brian “Marnal Gate” Swift "I was told by the producer that the guiding principle was to make the scripts complex enough to keep the Kids interested and simple enough for the Adults to understand!" -Douglas Adams on writing Doctor Who For all things Time Lord see www.meshyfish.com/~roo/And for all things TARDIS see docs.google.com/file/d/0B6zjenFzzQn1MF9xeHNNS1M1akU/edit?pli=1
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Post by semblance on Apr 29, 2013 9:46:04 GMT
I think that is also good, it is worth reading.
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