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Post by ugavine on May 14, 2011 10:50:53 GMT
So people never go "back" to old (as if 18 months is 'old'!) games to play them again? Even if they really like them? You must all live in a very strange world. A world with no patience, or where the past is so dead you probably don't even remember last week. Weird. Where are youi living? YES, it is a world with little patience now. Personally I still play th 1987 Star Wars RPG. Age of a game means nothing to me if it is good. But the point is that it is a fickle and extremly competetive market. Take D&D 3/3.5. Sure some people play it, and there is still some OGL stuff released for it, but a good chunk of those players have moved on to D&D4 or Pathfinder. The groups I play with don't have the time to play even a fraction of the RPGs they own, if it wasn't for me then Doctor Who would most likely be overlooked in favour of D&D, Pathfinder, Gamma World, World of Darkness, Call of Cthulhu, Shadowrun, WFRP, Rogue Trader, Star Wars, Paranoia... The fact remains that if you want people to buy your product you need to SELL the product. C7 had people hooked, due to the delays they've got all the hard work trying to hook them a second time with a game they already own. We need the re-release quick of they can then focus on getting the sourcebooks out which is what most players want the most. Edit I jut want to add that having spoke to several gamers at my club last night C7 are seen as messing people about. 12 Months ago they were a big name with Doctor Who and announcing Lord of the Rings. Now people fed up and are not even bothering to check their release schedule any more.
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Post by Marnal on May 14, 2011 14:47:56 GMT
Woohoo!! A fellow West End Star War gamer! I GM AiTaS every Saturday [indeed, game prep is what I should be doing right now!] and GM West End D6 every Sunday! - Marnal Gate "I was told by the producer that the guiding principle was to make the scripts complex enough to keep the Kids interested and simple enough for the Adults to understand!" -Douglas Adams on writing Doctor Who For Everything about the TARDIS check out www.whoniverse.net/tardis/ For all things Gallifreyan check out www.curufea.com/rassilon/or meshyfish.com/~roo/index.html
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sirus
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 48
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Post by sirus on May 15, 2011 5:19:23 GMT
Well to me It's a matter of having the material to keep the players interested. The re-release was suppose to have information regarding the aliens from season 5 plus updates to help the game run smoother. That's what re-releases are for. As it sits now if you want aliens or NPCs from season 5 you have t either write them yourself or look them up online. It's about customer relations, which as it looks has become a very low priority to our dear C7. The only problem is I don't see anything we can do. They don't talk to us so we get mad which makes them less likely to talk to us which makes us madder. It's going in circles And the funny thing is that if they told us what the hold up was, we'd probably get off their backs about it. But apparently on the C7 boards "silence has fallen"...
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Post by Rel Fexive on May 15, 2011 10:11:37 GMT
As it sits now if you want aliens or NPCs from season 5 you have t either write them yourself or look them up online. Is that really so hard though? I mean, you can even do it without creating detailed stats at all, just by making t up as you go and being consistent.
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Post by ugavine on May 15, 2011 11:31:40 GMT
As it sits now if you want aliens or NPCs from season 5 you have t either write them yourself or look them up online. Is that really so hard though? I mean, you can even do it without creating detailed stats at all, just by making t up as you go and being consistent. Making things up is easy, I've been doing it since 1987 for many, many games. But there are fans, well... me, that want shiney new books. Doctor Who RPG was on a roll, gamers loved it and it was winning awards. No one expected it to be the next D&D but consitent releases is surely not much to ask. Fans want Doctor Who RPG to be a success. But it can't be a success if the books are not released. And the fear is they have taken too long and the interest will not be there and future releases will be cancelled
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infinitydoctor
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 116
Favourite Doctors: 2nd and 4th
Traits: Run For Your Life! Technically Adept, Forgetful, Impulsive, Phobia (Snakes)
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Post by infinitydoctor on May 15, 2011 11:37:31 GMT
Well to me It's a matter of having the material to keep the players interested. The re-release was suppose to have information regarding the aliens from season 5 plus updates to help the game run smoother. That's what re-releases are for. As it sits now if you want aliens or NPCs from season 5 you have t either write them yourself or look them up online. What about everyone who isn't playing as the current TARDIS crew and aren't really too fussed about not having the stats for the Atraxi, Saturnyne, Psychic Pollen or the invisible camel-thing from "Vincent and the Doctor"?? ;D I'm not sure that the new set is a major revision anyway - is anything actually changing in the rules? I thought this was just a re-brand for the most part? Regardless, frequent and regular releases won't stop folks moving on to another game if their campaign has run its natural course, and some games just aren't that suited to long, extended campaigns (even if the TV show they're based on is!) - but the game as a whole can remain vital and viable: as one group stops playing, someone else's group may just be starting. For me, as much as I love the game, Doctor Who campaigns have a limited shelf-life - people will no doubt disagree with me here, but if you're using the standard Time Lord/Companion TARDIS crew, your characters don't really "advance" in anything other than story terms - its not like your Jedi Padwan working towards becoming a Knight, or your Tech-Priest gathering influence and preparing for the terrible Rite Of Clear Thought to become a Magos. This type of advancement wouldn't really suit the game. Right now, we're playing with the 8th Doctor and some newly-generated Companions, and only started playing a week or so back - using the core set that was released, what, almost two years ago? I'm sure we won't be playing Doctor Who in three-four months time, but we will definitely come back to it, and will have picked up the new supplements as they arrive.
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Post by Rel Fexive on May 15, 2011 14:59:54 GMT
Sometimes it's not about advancement though - sometimes it's just about playing in a given setting, or playing a particular type of character you can't play in anything else. And besides, there's more to "advancement" than 'going up a level' - characters can change without a single number or trait changing. You don't need more rules to do that.
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Post by ugavine on May 15, 2011 16:25:54 GMT
Sometimes it's not about advancement though - sometimes it's just about playing in a given setting, or playing a particular type of character you can't play in anything else. And besides, there's more to "advancement" than 'going up a level' - characters can change without a single number or trait changing. You don't need more rules to do that. I 100% concur with this. Although DW:AiTAS does allow stat increases they are not vital for advancement. It's about the story. Characters coming and going are also part of that story. The Advancement comes from moving on from one Companion to another, or a Time Lord into a new incarnation. In my one group we play that one player controls the Time Lord and when he regenerates, which should be in our next adventure, another player takes over the Time Lord and their Companion leaves with the previous Time Lord player creating a new Companion to join the crew.
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infinitydoctor
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 116
Favourite Doctors: 2nd and 4th
Traits: Run For Your Life! Technically Adept, Forgetful, Impulsive, Phobia (Snakes)
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Post by infinitydoctor on May 15, 2011 20:42:49 GMT
Yup, and that's exactly what I said with "your characters don't really 'advance' in anything other than story terms " and (referring to conventional character progression) "This type of advancement wouldn't really suit the game." BUT, it makes for a very different gaming experience to one where there is actual progression in terms of ability and influence within the game world. "Your character has changed as a person and matured emotionally" isn't always as rewarding as "and now he can redirect blaster bolts with his lightsaber" or "and your profit factor increases as the Houses of Chorda and Winterscale begrudgingly sign the Treaty Of Lucin's Breath" Also, are players going to be as invested in their characters if the idea is that they move on and play another companion or take turns playing the Time Lord? I think Doctor Who works best as a pick-up game, or for a short run - and that's not a bad thing. Its a fun game! (Well, we're having fun anyways) but I just can't it see it having the longevity, campaign-wise, that some of our other games have had.
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Post by ugavine on May 15, 2011 21:54:11 GMT
Yup, and that's exactly what I said with "your characters don't really 'advance' in anything other than story terms Characters can advance in Doctor Who. They can increase Attributes, Skills and gain Traits. Just because they don't gain Levels doesn't mean they cannot advance. We have characters who have advanced and even take the Feel the Turn of the Universe trait. Like in most non-D20 games I've played. Call of Cthulhu especially springs to mind. That's really a personal preference and nothing to do with the game mechanics. From experience, yes, very much so. sorry, but this I have to totally disagree with. Doctor Who RPG has more than enough going for it for a long run. And you only have to look at the way some recent RPGs are going with quick and easy systems (D&D4, Gamma World, soon to be released Primeaval, Apocalypse world, Savage Worlds) to see that the Doctor Who mechanics are the way forward for role-playing for many people. The re-release of the core rules is a start, what most people are waiting for are the sourcebooks. But we know that they won't come until the Core Rules are out. So come on C7, do something. Please
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infinitydoctor
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 116
Favourite Doctors: 2nd and 4th
Traits: Run For Your Life! Technically Adept, Forgetful, Impulsive, Phobia (Snakes)
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Post by infinitydoctor on May 15, 2011 22:30:59 GMT
Blimey, my posts must be riddled with perception filters ;D I haven't said you can't advance or there aren't rules for it, I'm saying that characters DON'T change to the degree that they change in other games, and there isn't that same sense of achievement (for my players anyway) as a result - most of the group are playing ordinary folks after all! Again though, the game is fun and does what it does really well. Can't comment on D20 games as a whole, since Star Wars SAGA is the only one I've played extensively (Traveller was my first game, and I kinda did a lot of White Wolf and Cyberpunk stuff, but hey, we were all pretentious in the 80s... ) I do agree that Call of Cthulhu works the same way as Doctor Who, and when we've played it in the past, I've either run a one-shot or run one of the big campaigns to completion (Masks, Orient Express and Beyond The Mountains Of Madness were the last three) then switched to something else. I don't think we ever carried any characters over (in fact, I think most folks ended up re-rolling new ones halfway through Masks - it was a bit high on the body count if I remember rightly!) I looked at D&D 4E and while it did have some nice ideas, I wasn't that impressed - every class ability I looked at just did stuff on the combat grid for one thing! I've never been a big fan of Gamma World in any of its incarnations, and it'll be a cold day in Hades before I touch Primeval - if that's the future of rpgs, its going to be a short-lived hobby ;D (EDIT: I should probably clarify - I'm not against rules-lite systems. I REALLY like the new Dragon Age rpg for instance, its worth a look, considering some of the games you mentioned, if you haven't already done so...) That said, all this is obviously just personal opinion, everyone's players (and play tastes) are different (or else we'd all be Cybermen) - its obviously working for you though, which is cool. As a matter of interest, how long have you been running Dr Who, and how many character changes have you been through in that time? Don't your players like to hold onto and develop a single character?
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Post by ugavine on May 16, 2011 9:26:27 GMT
I've run around a dozen games. The group with the charcater change is just at their first change, but I know the group and character change has always been part of our games - I've been running Star Wars D6 for over 20 years and the players constantly rotate their characters which has led to a nicely developed personal universe. The thing is characters can and probably have/will come back. Yes the players like their characters, but they also have got so many ideas they want to run many different characters. They all love the rotation idea. It's just a matter of getting them role-playing again though, they're not a group of gamers, just friends that enjoy RPGs, and the hard part is dragging them away from DVDs and bloody XBOX. The other group is a Wargaming Club. We're having a break at the moment from RPGs only because we have lots of games we want to play including board games and things like Warhammer 40K. I've already got my 3 part Doctor Who story arc ready, plus about another three adventures on top of that. In that group a single player is the Time Lord but the players can vary depending on who turns up. You mention Dragon Age, that's a game I've been considering for a while. Maybe I'll pick up a copy at UK Games Expo in June - I believe C7 will be there too, better have some Dr Who answers Primeval, well I don't like the series, but it's supposed to have the same system as Doctor Who and I really think it has a good premise for a Role-Playing game. I've got into the rules light systems recently because we've been having a few one-off games like D&D4 and Gamma World. You say you don't like Gamma World, I'd never heard of it until recently. But I ran a single game of the new version and it was one of the most fun games the group has ever had! I was surprised myself. It's very Paranoia in the way it plays, and you need to play it for laughs. Even character creation was fun and silly.
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Post by jeffrywith1e on May 17, 2011 16:37:53 GMT
I'm sure I'll be back. My obsessions are cyclical. It's been interesting to track them for the last few years.
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infinitydoctor
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 116
Favourite Doctors: 2nd and 4th
Traits: Run For Your Life! Technically Adept, Forgetful, Impulsive, Phobia (Snakes)
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Post by infinitydoctor on May 17, 2011 20:09:49 GMT
They all love the rotation idea. It's just a matter of getting them role-playing again though, they're not a group of gamers, just friends that enjoy RPGs, and the hard part is dragging them away from DVDs and bloody XBOX. Lol, yep, we kind of fell into roleplaying games as well, we've always done other stuff (and had real social lives ;D ) but managed to get a day a week when we could get some gaming done. Its interesting to see a group who rotates characters in the way you describe though - is this play style widespread? It was one of the reasons our lot wouldn't play Ars Magica many moons ago - they didn't like the idea of having three characters! (I loved Ars Magica as well.... ) Other folks - how do you guys run your Dr Who campaigns?
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Post by Siskoid on May 18, 2011 3:37:01 GMT
For me it's limited engagements. Cast of characters meant to stick together for a season (about 8 sessions), then there's a break. We play other games, or go back to our lives, whatever. The next season may have some of the same characters or not, can jump ahead a few regenerations to another "era", etc. We come up with justifications for missing/new people etc. as required.
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Post by dragoncymru on Jun 1, 2011 15:09:46 GMT
At the risk of opening any more worm cans...
Have we heard any more news since?
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jun 1, 2011 18:11:55 GMT
Not yet but, judging by the much more chatty front of the C7 website, as soon as they know I think we'll read all about it there.
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Post by ugavine on Jun 1, 2011 20:41:12 GMT
I will be asking the question at the C7 stand at UK Games Expo the weekend
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Post by zebaroth on Jun 4, 2011 3:08:16 GMT
So people never go "back" to old (as if 18 months is 'old'!) games to play them again? Even if they really like them? You must all live in a very strange world. A world with no patience, or where the past is so dead you probably don't even remember last week. Weird. Where are youi living? YES, it is a world with little patience now. Personally I still play th 1987 Star Wars RPG. Age of a game means nothing to me if it is good. But the point is that it is a fickle and extremly competetive market. Take D&D 3/3.5. Sure some people play it, and there is still some OGL stuff released for it, but a good chunk of those players have moved on to D&D4 or Pathfinder. The groups I play with don't have the time to play even a fraction of the RPGs they own, if it wasn't for me then Doctor Who would most likely be overlooked in favour of D&D, Pathfinder, Gamma World, World of Darkness, Call of Cthulhu, Shadowrun, WFRP, Rogue Trader, Star Wars, Paranoia... The fact remains that if you want people to buy your product you need to SELL the product. C7 had people hooked, due to the delays they've got all the hard work trying to hook them a second time with a game they already own. We need the re-release quick of they can then focus on getting the sourcebooks out which is what most players want the most. Edit I jut want to add that having spoke to several gamers at my club last night C7 are seen as messing people about. 12 Months ago they were a big name with Doctor Who and announcing Lord of the Rings. Now people fed up and are not even bothering to check their release schedule any more. Yes i agree with you about old rpg i am always buying old games
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Post by ugavine on Jun 5, 2011 11:41:59 GMT
Yes i agree with you about old rpg i am always buying old games Although all my Star Wars D6 & Shadowrun (1st Ed.) were all bought NEW ;D Anyway, I asked at the C7 stand at UK Games Expo yesterday and it's NOT good news. I was told there were still layout issues and they are HOPING to get it released before the second part of the series airs - and that's SEPTEMBER!
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jun 5, 2011 13:02:42 GMT
And the months till then are commonly referred to in the northern hemisphere as 'summer', which is the current release period. So any time between now and then would be correct.
Also, between the two blocks is the perfect time for DW RPG action.
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Post by ugavine on Jun 5, 2011 14:33:00 GMT
I think you missed part of my post, they were HOPING to release it by then!
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jun 5, 2011 14:53:54 GMT
I did see that yes. Plenty of time.
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Post by dragoncymru on Jun 5, 2011 15:43:07 GMT
I think you missed part of my post, they were HOPING to release it by then! Much as I predicted back in April then... Ah, well...
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Post by kingkaddish on Jun 16, 2011 3:39:06 GMT
any news of this boxed set ever coming out yet?
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,246
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Jun 16, 2011 7:24:34 GMT
The most recent annoucncement was that everything that had been announced should be out by the end of August. No updates since then, but I assume that this will cover the 11th Doctor Edition, the new GM's screen, Defending the Earth and The Time Travellers Companion.
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Post by dragoncymru on Jun 16, 2011 21:32:31 GMT
The most recent annoucncement was that everything that had been announced should be out by the end of August. No updates since then, but I assume that this will cover the 11th Doctor Edition, the new GM's screen, Defending the Earth and The Time Travellers Companion. Judging by their hit-rate thus far, I find all that HIGHLY unlikely! 4 products in 2 months - not a chance I'm afraid.
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Post by kingkaddish on Jun 17, 2011 3:28:40 GMT
I "REALLY" hope this is the actual release date this time. I was SO disappointed after the last release date flopped.
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Post by ugavine on Jun 17, 2011 10:59:27 GMT
The most recent annoucncement was that everything that had been announced should be out by the end of August. No updates since then, but I assume that this will cover the 11th Doctor Edition, the new GM's screen, Defending the Earth and The Time Travellers Companion. To quote Captain Mainwaring from Dads Army, "I think you're entering the realms of fantasy here..." ;D
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,246
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Jun 17, 2011 14:40:52 GMT
The most recent annoucncement was that everything that had been announced should be out by the end of August. No updates since then, but I assume that this will cover the 11th Doctor Edition, the new GM's screen, Defending the Earth and The Time Travellers Companion. To quote Captain Mainwaring from Dads Army, "I think you're entering the realms of fantasy here..." ;D Depends which August you're thinking of...
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