The Return of Robin Hood

[olegrand]

I'm currently reading the recently released Return of Robin Hood novel by Paul Magrs, featuring the Fourth Doctor and companions Sarah Jane Smith and Harry Sullivan. I was attracted to this book because, basically, I love all things Robin Hood and also because (spoilers alert) the book features Carrionites, which I more or less plan to use in a medieval (pre-Shakespeare) setting in my ongoing Lady Penelope's Odyssey campaign. The action of the novel is set roughly 20 years after the Robot of Sherwood episode with the 12th Doctor - so here the (4th) Doctor meets Robin Hood and his merry men for the first time (according to his own timeline) and for the second time (as far as Robin Hood et al are concerned).

I must admit that I feel a bit uneasy about this, since, at the beginning of Robot of Sherwood, the 12th Doctor clearly insisted on the fact that Robin Hood was a myth and had no historical reality - before, of course, being proved wrong! Since I'm only halfway or so through the book, I cannot be sure that this potential continuity issue will not be handled in a clever way (i.e. by making the 4th Doctor forget all about this first encounter with Robin etc.)... but I can't help being pessimistic, since the book already has a serious time discrepancy in it. It is set in the 1190s... but Robot of Sherwood (explicitly set "20 years ago" for Robin and his companion) was also supposed to be set during this decade ("1190-ish" IIRC). And since King Richard (who only reigned for 10 years) is said to be the ruling king in BOTH stories, well, there may be a problem here - UNLESS, of course, this all prove to be some kind of fake pseudo-historical construct but I do think it quite unlikely.

Anyway, so far I'm halfway through the book and I'm a bit disappointed (appalled ?) by the perplexing anachronisms it contains:

In the sheriff of Nottingham's castle, people eat "potatoes" and use "china" as well as "tea kettles"...

This kind of thing simply puts me off - especially since any decent editor should have spotted them.

What is especially ironic here is that the Doctor does warn his companion about the danger of "causing anachronisms" while adventuring in medieval times (because Harry taught the Robin Hood TV-theme to the Merry Men) and even shows off his historical expertise by telling us that "chaise longues" were not invented before the 16th century. Why couldn't the author himself be as painstakingly historical as the Doctor?

OF COURSE I'm ready to "eat my hat" (as we say in France) if all these anachronisms actually happen to be deliberate and are explained in the end... Has anyone here read the novel and its entirety? And if so, can you confirm/infirm that these anachronisms are indeed "true" anachronisms?

[Catsmate]

I have the book, electronic format, but haven't read it yet. Perhaps I'll return it.

[Catsmate]

olegrand, you're right, the book is at best mediocre. I've finished it and it is littered with even more anachronisms that you've mentioned ('tureens', plentiful pheasants, Gisbourne heads out 'doing a bit of shooting', the travellers are invited to 'freshen up' in the outlaw camp, the sheriff's cook is unusually literate, Richard enjoys a 'stein of foamy beer and more).

While Magrs has previously written some fairly good Who books, this is definitely not one of them. The prose style is poor.
The characterisation is worse; he simply doesn't seem to 'get' D4, SJS and Harry, especially the latter. Though Harry seems to disappear off-screen for long intervals (as on TV).

Worst is the sloppy and, frankly, silly plot.
The outlaw camp is another ludicrous detail.

There's also the traditional UKlian hero-worship of Richard (though the Doctor does debunk many of the myths) and John being blamed for the taxation caused by Richard's failed military adventures and his ransom. He's also described as 'weak, silly and vain', which is factually untrue.
Finally Magrs needs to research what a sheriff was, who appointed them and what their duties were. And stop having the Doctor refer to himself as 'Doctor Who'.

[olegrand]

I've finished it too and wow, it was clearly not good.

Another anachronism: reference to "marrying an old bishop" (not possible in 12th century England... )

The plot is, well, pedestrian and uninspired. The Carrionite villain's agenda is a very simplistic variation on the Master's already a bit far-fetched Magna Carta scheme from the King's Demons and does not really match the established lore about Carrionites (why isn't this one imprisoned with the others ? we never really know, unless I've missed something).

The "temporal amnesia" of the Doctor (why he won't remember any of this in his later incarnations and even think that Robin Hood never existed at all) is indeed addressed in the end but in a clumsy manner which left me with a very flat after-taste and "all this for that" feeling.

There is, however, a single idea/image that I will probably recycle in a future scenario: a Carrionite witch eating the pages of precious medieval manuscripts to absorb the power of the written word... Incidentally, it reminded me a bit of Mr. Croup's compulsive eating of antique china in Neverwhere because this acts removes a bit of beauty from the world...

[grinch]

Sept 11, 2022 15:00:32 GMT olegrand said:

I've finished it too and wow, it was clearly not good.

Another anachronism: reference to "marrying an old bishop" (not possible in 12th century England... )

The plot is, well, pedestrian and uninspired. The Carrionite villain's agenda is a very simplistic variation on the Master's already a bit far-fetched Magna Carta scheme from the King's Demons and does not really match the established lore about Carrionites (why isn't this one imprisoned with the others ? we never really know, unless I've missed something).

The "temporal amnesia" of the Doctor (why he won't remember any of this in his later incarnations and even think that Robin Hood never existed at all) is indeed addressed in the end but in a clumsy manner which left me with a very flat after-taste and "all this for that" feeling.

There is, however, a single idea/image that I will probably recycle in a future scenario: a Carrionite witch eating the pages of precious medieval manuscripts to absorb the power of the written word... Incidentally, it reminded me a bit of Mr. Croup's compulsive eating of antique china in Neverwhere because this acts removes a bit of beauty from the world...

You could even repurpose said idea in a historical adventure with Samuel Johnson and the first English Dictionary.

Maybe the Dictionary as we know it was originally designed as a means to contain the Carrionites?

[Catsmate]

Sept 11, 2022 17:35:38 GMT grinch said:

Sept 11, 2022 15:00:32 GMT olegrand said:

I've finished it too and wow, it was clearly not good.

Another anachronism: reference to "marrying an old bishop" (not possible in 12th century England... )

The plot is, well, pedestrian and uninspired. The Carrionite villain's agenda is a very simplistic variation on the Master's already a bit far-fetched Magna Carta scheme from the King's Demons and does not really match the established lore about Carrionites (why isn't this one imprisoned with the others ? we never really know, unless I've missed something).

The "temporal amnesia" of the Doctor (why he won't remember any of this in his later incarnations and even think that Robin Hood never existed at all) is indeed addressed in the end but in a clumsy manner which left me with a very flat after-taste and "all this for that" feeling.

There is, however, a single idea/image that I will probably recycle in a future scenario: a Carrionite witch eating the pages of precious medieval manuscripts to absorb the power of the written word... Incidentally, it reminded me a bit of Mr. Croup's compulsive eating of antique china in Neverwhere because this acts removes a bit of beauty from the world...

You could even repurpose said idea in a historical adventure with Samuel Johnson and the first English Dictionary.

Maybe the Dictionary as we know it was originally designed as a means to contain the Carrionites?

That's a fascinating idea. Of course my favourite portrayal of Johnson was in Blackadder...