Spaceship Clarification

[CountClockwise]

I hate to continue to ask nothing but questions but I've been going through both the Silurian Age and the Rocket Age books and while I'm curious and interested about using the spaceship rules but there's something I can't see anywhere...what most of the numbers actually mean. I don't know if this has been answered elsewhere on the forum (in that case being directed there would be lovely) but the numbers on many of the stats for spaceships are very very vague. While I know the book says the numbers represent the cap on the skill rating you can use but just for reference what is the difference between a 5, 7, or 9 in communications? Could someone provide an explanation of the stats like they do with the ability scores please?

While I do really like the crunchy nature of the vehicle rules and I like them in principle but a table explaining what a 6 or 8 in comms means narratively wouldn't go amiss.

[Stormcrow]

The rules on spaceships aren't very clear to me. Although the section on spaceship attributes (p. 82) starts by saying "These four attributes function in the same way as any character trait, adding to the rolls made with the vehicle, taking levels of damage, and helping you to decide what a vehicle can actually do," I don't see any instance in the rules in which the attributes themselves are added to anything in a roll. The major effect they seem to have is to limit the skills you can use in the ship. This suggests that any attributes higher than the skill levels expected to be used are superfluous. For instance, in human ships, at least before humans start regularly gaining the Alien and Cyborg traits, there is little call to upgrade a ship's attributes beyond 6, the normal human maximum skill level.

But there is precious little about what the scale of these numbers means. Here's what we get:

• Communications: 0 = no communication; 1 = visual signals; 2 = at least a radio
• Handling: 0 = no control
• Sensors: 0 = no detection beyond hull; 1 = at least windows
• Structure: 0 = about to blow up, Armor doesn't protect, no movement; many ships have high Structure

One thing you can look at for guidance is the 20th century human rocket ships, which represent real things.

Name	Communications	Handling	Sensors	Structure
Human Rocket (Mid-20th Century)	2	3	2	4
Human Rocket (Late-20th Century)	4	4	6	5

What this tells me is that the Unified S-Band communication system of the Apollo spacecraft equals a Communications of 2, while the telescopes and cameras of, say, the space shuttle Endeavour equals a Sensors of 6. Real-life spaceships are very fragile, so they don't have high Structure scores.

[Marnal]

I was going to suggest making the max for most of the stats be the Tech Level the ship. Though its seems that that Late 20th Century rockets have a sensors of 6. [though Dr Who late 20th century rockets take people to Saturn and Mars so there's that].

[misterharry]

Interesting thread and not something I'd particularly considered before.

The example spaceship stats in The Silurian Age provide some guidance. However, as many of them are well above the maximum Skill rating available to a normal character, they often don't act as a limiting factor in the way described on page 82.

So instead of acting as a limit on the Skill, my own suggestion would be to use the four spaceship Attributes in place of character Attributes. So, for a Communications roll use Communications + Technology; for Handling, use Handling + Transport; and for Sensors use Sensors + Technology. Not sure what roll you'd need to use Structure for; it's more the default Attribute for hit points and applying damage.

[Stormcrow]

But then you're saying that no matter how skilled a pilot (Transport) someone is, they'll never be any better than a rank beginner. If anyone sitting in a late 21-century human light-speed ship rolls Coordination + Handling instead of Coordination + Transport, then it makes no difference at all whether you're a novice (Transport 0) or the best pilot in the academy (Transport 6 [Space Pilot]).

Maybe it would be better to say that when rolling for spaceship tasks, you use the lower of your skill and the ship's attribute. This way, you can do no better than the ship's capabilities, but the ship won't do the job for you. For instance, a beginner pilot (Transport 0) and an expert pilot (Transport 3 [Space Pilot]) each sit in a ship with Handling 4. To maneuver, the beginner rolls Coordination + Transport, while the expert rolls Coordination + Handling.

Meanwhile, the only purpose of the Structure attribute is to be there to absorb damage. You never use that attribute in a roll.

In the end, I feel that the spaceship rules are over-designed for the Doctor Who game. I wonder how extensively they were play-tested.

[Stormcrow]

Has anyone else noticed that the spaceship weapon ranges are in thousands of meters while the chase area sizes are in thousands of kilometers? It basically means there's no shooting during a chase, and that your distance during a shootout is pretty much arbitrary.

It might make more sense if area ranges were in meters instead of kilometers—of if you just dropped all pretense at "realistic" ranges and listed weapon ranges in terms of areas only.

[misterharry]

Mar 21, 2017 15:03:39 GMT Stormcrow said:

But then you're saying that no matter how skilled a pilot (Transport) someone is, they'll never be any better than a rank beginner. If anyone sitting in a late 21-century human light-speed ship rolls Coordination + Handling instead of Coordination + Transport, then it makes no difference at all whether you're a novice (Transport 0) or the best pilot in the academy (Transport 6 [Space Pilot]).

I'm not sure I follow you on this. The ship's Attribute would substitute for the character's Attribute (not Skill).

So it would be the pilot's Transport rating that would be used in a Handling + Transport roll: for a ship with a Handling of 5, the novice would have a roll of 5 + 0 + dice; whereas the best pilot would roll 5 + 8 + dice.

[misterharry]

Mar 21, 2017 15:17:14 GMT Stormcrow said:

Has anyone else noticed that the spaceship weapon ranges are in thousands of meters while the chase area sizes are in thousands of kilometers? It basically means there's no shooting during a chase, and that your distance during a shootout is pretty much arbitrary.

It might make more sense if area ranges were in meters instead of kilometers—of if you just dropped all pretense at "realistic" ranges and listed weapon ranges in terms of areas only.

Personally, I'd go with the latter and make it all abstract.

[Doctor Toc]

On the subject of the spaceship rules, am I going batty, or is there no table in the rules that defines what the Speed stat for the ships actually means? I've gone through every version of the rules I can find, and Speed only gets referred to in the corebook under Chases, and even then the list of example vehicles only consists of a motorcycle, a car and a truck. What happens when I want to have a dog-fight between an F15 and a Dalek Hoverbout?

[Stormcrow]

See page 86 of The Silurian Age. Spaceships have a Speed In Space attribute that works for space chases the same way regular Speed works for other chases. See the same page for the Recommended Area Sizes for various scales. Basically, Speed In Space is so fast that there's no point comparing it to regular vehicle speed.

[Doctor Toc]

Got it. Thanks!