Game Speed Conversion to KPH?

[Escher]

Does anyone use a game conversion for move units to kph please? Thanks.

[misterharry]

The stats for vehicles in Rocket Age list kph as well as Action Round Speed. The conversion seems to be that kph is 0.6 of their listed Action Round Speed. This seems to be the case for all vehicles from ground cars to rocket ships.

However, if you then apply this to character speeds, it doesn't make sense, with an average human with Coordination 3 and no bonuses moving at a snail's pace of 2kph. The human speed record by Usain Bolt is just under 45kph. Let's assume that as a supreme athlete he has a Coordination 7 but makes a Fantastic Coordination + Athletics roll to get +3 to his Speed for a total of 10. Add another +1 by assuming he's got Run for Your Life! and can use it in race conditions (or perhaps an equivalent trait available to athletes). Applying the 0.6 modifier to his effective Speed of 11 means that he's only moving at a measly 6.6kph - only just higher than a normal walking speed.

My suggestion therefore is that each point of Speed should equate to 4kph:

Speed 1 = 4kph
Speed 2 = 8kph
Speed 3 = 12kph
Speed 4 = 16kph
Speed 5 = 20kph
Speed 6 = 24kph
Speed 7 = 28kph
Speed 8 = 32kph
Speed 9 = 36kph
Speed 10 = 40kph
Speed 11 = 44kph

Jogging speed is usually between 12 and 15kph, which seems to fit with Coordination of 3 or 4 (and not attempting to sprint by making a Coordination + Athletics roll).

Bear in mind that most animals known for their speed will need high Coordination and Athletics and the Fast trait (irrelevant as to whether you use the above kph conversion or a different figure).

[Escher]

Many thanks for the input. I was was wondering what everyone else was using as a basis for benchmarking speed, especially vehicles, since there are a few abstract concepts involved.
When we take into account that 'an area' has a variable size depending on what is travelling at speed (Characters in a built-up area, characters in the open, vehicles in a built-up area, vehicles in the open, aircraft and Spacecraft) then it becomes a bit more harder to reach something solid.
Also compare with the fact that total speed in areas is vehicle speed + driver's coordination, and also that can be pushed with Coordination + Transport rolls.
What I'm getting is that a vehicle's listed speed in areas is just the 'safe' base speed.
I'm also seeing a rough correlation between a vehicle's speed and Miles per hour/10, e.g. Truck 5, Tank 3, Car 8, Sports Car 12. Maybe it's that simple?

[misterharry]

Apr 24, 2016 13:59:00 GMT Escher said:

I'm also seeing a rough correlation between a vehicle's speed and Miles per hour/10, e.g. Truck 5, Tank 3, Car 8, Sports Car 12. Maybe it's that simple?

I'm not sure it's as straightforward as that. Looking at the vehicles in Defending the Earth:

UNIT Jeep: Speed 8
Tank: Speed 4
Truck: Speed 6

These seem more or less correct. But then we get to aircraft:

Light Aircraft: Speed 12
Cargo Plane: Speed 12
Jet Fighter: Speed 24

Even allowing for a large range in cruising speeds in real life, the above all seem low to me. Using the mph/10 rule, I'd expect them to be more like (in very general terms) 15, 30 and 50+

And finally, hovercraft and helicopters:

Hovercraft: Speed 9 - a tad fast even for military hovercraft, Speed 9 is more like max speed
Small Helicopter: Speed 11 - OK for cruising speed
Military Helicopter: Speed 9 - very slow, should probably be 15 or more

So, I'm not sure whether it's actually a geometric scale rather than an arithmetic one, or is best left as an abstract scale.

There's also still the issue of the Speed of characters. Using the mph/10 rule, an average person would be able to move at 30mph without pushing themselves, and an Olympic athlete at 60mph. Character speed probably ought to be considered as being on a separate scale to vehicle speed (in the same way as spaceships are on a different scale again in The Silurian Age).

Thoughts?

[Escher]

Apr 25, 2016 8:54:51 GMT misterharry said:

Apr 24, 2016 13:59:00 GMT Escher said:

I'm also seeing a rough correlation between a vehicle's speed and Miles per hour/10, e.g. Truck 5, Tank 3, Car 8, Sports Car 12. Maybe it's that simple?

I'm not sure it's as straightforward as that. Looking at the vehicles in Defending the Earth:

UNIT Jeep: Speed 8
Tank: Speed 4
Truck: Speed 6

These seem more or less correct. But then we get to aircraft:

Light Aircraft: Speed 12
Cargo Plane: Speed 12
Jet Fighter: Speed 24


Thoughts?

I think you forgot Aircraft use the 500m x 500m chase areas as opposed to vehicles using 300m x 300m in open areas; but still, you're right, I don't think it's as simple as that.
I'm sure this is less of a mathematical formula and more of an abstract investigation. For a start, an action round is variable in time, so there's trouble right off.
However, I think I might have cracked it too. More later. All I want is a rough ballpark so I can convert real-world vehicles over to the system. It doesn't matter about actual speeds for built-up areas (30m x 30m areas), its a rough ballpark on the Top Speed or Cruising Speed I want.

As I mentioned, I think I have it...

[misterharry]

Apr 25, 2016 10:18:34 GMT Escher said:

I think you forgot Aircraft use the 500m x 500m chase areas as opposed to vehicles using 300m x 300m in open areas;

You're absolutely right, I did. I've not used aircraft in a chase situation, so completely forgot that

As I mentioned, I think I have it...

Excellent - look forward to it!

[Escher]

With this, I'm attempting to sketch out a basic ballpark. It doesn't take into account adding a driver's Coordination to the speed, which in a chase situation is abstract anyway and doesn't cover long-term travel, but adds to the number of chase areas they have per round, and simulates the reflexes of the driver in pursuit/evasion.

So, for completeness:

Area Size: On foot built-up area 3x3m; open area 30x30m
Road Vehicles: built-up area 30x30m; open area 300x300m
Aerial Chase: 500x500m
Space: 3000 x 3000km


If we bear in mind the 500m scale for Air Vehicles, looking at the top speed of a Cargo Plane from the UNIT: Defending The Earth Sourcebook, and assuming its a Lockheed Martin Hercules C-130 (the mobile UNIT Base in The Invasion) which has a maximum speed of 329 miles an hour, and a cruising speed of 292 miles an hour lets round off that cruising speed to exactly 300mph. Someone with an average Coordination of 3 flying it could reach the Maximum speed of 330mph (rounded off) by adding 10 mph per point of Coordination. Not very scientific but it works so far. In fact, it works quite well with the rest of the speeds given. For land vehicles, the scale is reduced according (from 500m to 300m).


So, the speeds listed are Cruising Speeds, rounded up.

Land Vehicle Scale 1 = 15 mph and increases by 15 mph increments.
The Air Vehicle Scale starts at 1 = 25 mph and increases at 25 mph increments.

From the basic game book and UNIT Sourcebook:

Tank: Speed 4 = 60 mph
Civilian Truck, Bus: Speed 5 = 75 mph
Military Truck, SUV: Speed 6 = 90 mph
UNIT Jeep, Motorcycle, Car: Speed 8 = 120 mph
Sports Car: Speed 12 = 180 mph
Light Aircraft, Cargo Plane: Air Speed 12 = 300mph
Jet Fighter: Air Speed 24 = 600mph
Mach 1 = Speed 30 (rounded)
Mach 2 = Speed 60, etc.

This kind of looks ok so far. Thoughts?

[misterharry]

This all sounds good to me - what would be really useful is a reference sheet that summarises it all.

[misterharry]

The more I look at this, the more I like it. As an aside, it means that in chase situations a Round lasts 45 seconds.

I've been checking some of the vehicle stats in the sourcebooks, and under the above guidelines good old Bessie has a cruising speed of 120mph - about right if her hyperdrive is engaged. And the Whomobile has a cruising speed of 150mph - though with its Major Flight trait, it can reach MACH 1 in aerial chases!

In previous sourcebooks, the Speeds listed in spaceship stats tend to be higher than those listed in The Silurian Age, which introduces the expanded spaceship design rules. Am I right in thinking that under the basic vehicle rules the size of an Area for chases in space is not specified? If so, the two systems aren't compatible and spaceship Speed under the basic rules remains abstract. Which in a way solves the issue of the inconsistency of spaceship speeds between the two sets of rules - just keep them separate.

[Escher]

Yes, absolutely. Space Speed is completely removed. Speed In Atmosphere is worth looking into though, at some point.
Worth mentioning that water vehicle speed is not covered. The Hovercraft is listed as Speed 9. This exceeds the Hovercraft world speed record! Water Vehicles may need a separate scale (unless the 9 is an error).

misterharry said:
The more I look at this, the more I like it. As an aside, it means that in chase situations a Round lasts 45 seconds.

From what I recall this tallies with what it says in the book, for vehicle-scale rounds being 'about a minute'. Can't verify this right now (not at my desk)

[misterharry]

Apr 28, 2016 15:04:46 GMT Escher said:

Worth mentioning that water vehicle speed is not covered. The Hovercraft is listed as Speed 9. This exceeds the Hovercraft world speed record! Water Vehicles may need a separate scale (unless the 9 is an error).

Under the above guidelines, a military hovercraft is more likely to have Speed 5 (75mph), though of course it varies a little. There are a few examples of water craft in the Primeval RPG, and I think these also have too high a Speed.

A simple solution would be to decrease the size of an Area for chases over water, maybe 150m x 150m? Alternatively, assume the duration of a Round is doubled for these. Either of these methods would give the following (by calculating distance per Round and extrapolating to mph), which seem far more reasonable:

Hovecraft: Speed 9, 68mph
Inflatable dinghy (e.g. Zodiac): Speed 6, 45mph
Speedboat: Speed 8, 60mph

The Speed for the latter two is from Primeval. The Primeval Evolution supplement also lists an Upholder-class Submarine with Speed 3, which would work out as 22.5mph - Wikipedia lists their speed as 23mph, practically on the nose!

[Escher]

Apr 28, 2016 16:07:24 GMT misterharry said:

Apr 28, 2016 15:04:46 GMT Escher said:

Worth mentioning that water vehicle speed is not covered. The Hovercraft is listed as Speed 9. This exceeds the Hovercraft world speed record! Water Vehicles may need a separate scale (unless the 9 is an error).

Under the above guidelines, a military hovercraft is more likely to have Speed 5 (75mph), though of course it varies a little. There are a few examples of water craft in the Primeval RPG, and I think these also have too high a Speed.

A simple solution would be to decrease the size of an Area for chases over water, maybe 150m x 150m? Alternatively, assume the duration of a Round is doubled for these. Either of these methods would give the following (by calculating distance per Round and extrapolating to mph), which seem far more reasonable:

Hovecraft: Speed 9, 68mph
Inflatable dinghy (e.g. Zodiac): Speed 6, 45mph
Speedboat: Speed 8, 60mph

The Speed for the latter two is from Primeval. The Primeval Evolution supplement also lists an Upholder-class Submarine with Speed 3, which would work out as 22.5mph - Wikipedia lists their speed as 23mph, practically on the nose!

Wonderful!

So, Water Chase Areas = 150m x 150m. Sounds water-tight.

...

So:

Area Size: On foot built-up area 3 x 3m; open area 30 x 30m
Road Vehicles: built-up area 30 x 30m; open area 300 x 300m
Water Vehicles: 150m x 150m
Aerial Chase: 500 x 500m
Space: 3000 x 3000km


Land Vehicle Scale 1 = 15 mph and increases by 15 mph increments.
Water Vehicle Scale 1 = 7.5 mph and increases by 7.5 mph increments.
The Air Vehicle Scale starts at 1 = 25 mph and increases at 25 mph increments.


I'm happy with it. I think this gives an acceptable benchmark guide to stat vehicles.

[misterharry]

Here's a quick reference table summarising Speed and the mph conversions:




I've also updated my vehicle speeds list so that it's now in line with this:

DWAITAS Vehicles Speeds

Hope it's helpful!

[Marnal]

Thanks! This is awesome!

[Marnal]

Quick clarification: When doing a chase what exactly is rolled with these rules?

2d6 + Vehicle Speed + Transport Skill + Coordination = total speed roll?

[misterharry]

Thanks!

Apr 30, 2016 17:52:17 GMT Marnal said:

Quick clarification: When doing a chase what exactly is rolled with these rules?

2d6 + Vehicle Speed + Transport Skill + Coordination = total speed roll?

These speeds use the standard chase rules.

So the base Speed of a vehicle is still its listed Speed + the driver/pilot's Coordination. To go faster, you roll 2D6 + Coordination + Transport against a Difficulty determined according to the Terrain Modifier (and anything else decided by the GM). Success gives +1 Speed, Good gives +2 and Fantastic gives +3; Failure gives the corresponding penalties.

[Marnal]

Thanks!!