Do Robots automatically get Environmental trait?

[misterharry]

From a common sense point of view, not needing to breathe would seem to be a default ability for robots. But there's no mention in the write-up of the Robot trait in either edition of the GM's Guide, at least not that I can see.

However, none of the robots stats published by Cubicle 7 so far have the Environmental trait - basically limited to Clockwork Droids and Roboforms in the original edition. Aliens & Creatures also includes Cassandra's spider-bots, but these don't even have the Robot trait!

What do people think? Should a Robot need to buy Environmental if they don't need to breathe?

[garethl]

I think I'd follow common sense and not require robots to breathe even if they don't have the Environmental trait.

Is there an example of the Environmental trait being used to allow an alien to survive without air?

[misterharry]

Dec 19, 2012 12:19:28 GMT garethl said:

I think I'd follow common sense and not require robots to breathe even if they don't have the Environmental trait.

Makes sense to me.

Is there an example of the Environmental trait being used to allow an alien to survive without air?

I don't think there is - other than aliens who have the Major version and can survive in any environment.

Incidentally, I've also noticed that the Cybermen don't have Environmental. But the Daleks - who are also Cyborgs - do. Seems inconsistent.

Autons, who are neither Robots nor Cyborgs, don't have Environmental either, but I've never thought that they needed to breathe. I'm probably being too pedantic...

[Escher]

Strictly speaking, Environmental (Minor Good) is not about breathing but being able to survive in one type of nasty environment. While I think it's perfectly valid for a creature to have Environmental (Minor) Underwater, it's a moot point if the 'character' is a plastic dummy, that by definition, doesn't require oxygen.

For some beings, the total vacuum and absolute zero temperature of space would require Environmental. I'd say Cybermen would be deep-frozen, plastic autons would do the same and possibly crack.
Also, intense heat would certainly melt both.

[misterharry]

Dec 19, 2012 14:04:08 GMT Escher said:

Strictly speaking, Environmental (Minor Good) is not about breathing but being able to survive in one type of nasty environment. While I think it's perfectly valid for a creature to have Environmental (Minor) Underwater, it's a moot point if the 'character' is a plastic dummy, that by definition, doesn't require oxygen.

For some beings, the total vacuum and absolute zero temperature of space would require Environmental. I'd say Cybermen would be deep-frozen, plastic autons would do the same and possibly crack.
Also, intense heat would certainly melt both.

Not sure I agree about Cybermen - or the classic series versions at least. They were able to survive in vacuum in The Moonbase and The Wheel in Space at least.

Generally I count not requiring to breathe as being a Minor version of the Environmental trait, as it means being able to survive in toxic atmospheres. Survival in vacuum is a Major trait for me, as it's more than a lack of a breathable atmosphere.

[Escher]

Dec 19, 2012 21:07:54 GMT misterharry said:

Not sure I agree about Cybermen - or the classic series versions at least. They were able to survive in vacuum in The Moonbase and The Wheel in Space at least.

Ack! You're completely right! I forgot about this. What an embarassing gaffe...

[knasser]

Dec 19, 2012 13:43:31 GMT misterharry said:

Incidentally, I've also noticed that the Cybermen don't have Environmental. But the Daleks - who are also Cyborgs - do. Seems inconsistent.

Traditionally, cybermen have had a breathing vent in their chests and whilst we have seen instances of cybermen moving through near vaccuum (e.g. on the surface of the Moon), nothing indicated to me that this had to be a default capability (i.e. they couldn't have oxygen packs fitted or similar). Indeed, it was their breathing vent that allowed gold to be introduced to their system with such a fatal effect.

You might be tempted to argue that Cybermen should have the Environmental (Minor, Cold) trait which would be supportable to an extent, but remember that they were incapacitated when frozen. If you are in suspended animation (as even humans have been in Who cannon elsewhere), then I don't think that this counts an immunity - you're frozen and can do nothing! I would probably give them a certain degree of cold immunity however.

Daleks on the other hand, in my own write-ups (links in my signature), I have given them Environment (Major), because they are sealed war machines, imo. They were even originally designed to resist radiation so being sealed is pretty much a given. We have seen Daleks emerge from underwater, operate in Space... I can't imagine many environmental factors (heat, poison gas, whatever) bother a Dalek much.

[Marnal]

Except in "Planet of the Daleks" where having their casing partially immersed in sub-zero liquid IMMEDIATELY puts them to sleep.

[chickenpaddy]

I would say robots definitely DO NOT start with the environmental trait. Remember that the Robot trait refered to in the book is a general term. All robots are different. Some may require air to help vent exhaust, or to cool their mainframes.

You can definitely encourage getting Environment (vacuum) for your robot characters, but it would not be automatic.

Also, let's not forget that Cybermen are cyborgs, not robots. Similar, yes, but not quite the same.

Hope that helps.

Happy Gaming!

[misterharry]

Interesting. We don't seem to have a consensus on this.

I agree though about the difference between Robots and Cyborgs. My mention of Cybermen was really a separate issue, more to do with consistency between the stats for Cybermen and Daleks (who have both been shown as being able to survive in space - though I admit the Cybermen have only been shown to be able to do this in the classic series).

[chickenpaddy]

Doctor Who canon as a whole is, to put it one way, consistently inconsistent. Not that I mind, it's part of the show's charm.

Anyway, I would say that, even though robots don't usually need to breath, some of their auxiliary functions might still need some sort of air to work. This might not be a big deal for NPC robots, as their stats can be hand-waved by the GM for Rule of Fun. However, for player character robots, you could either encourage them to pick up the Environment (Vacuum) trait to be truly space-worthy, or rule it to have them spend one or two story points to stay functional in an airless void.

Those are just my thoughts on it. As GM you can rule it however you wish. If it seems to be more sensible for you to have all robots have Environment automatically, great! More power to you. It just depends on how laid back your group is. I have some serious rules lawyers in my group that when given an inch take lightyears.

[knasser]

Dec 21, 2012 16:25:31 GMT Marnal said:

Except in "Planet of the Daleks" where having their casing partially immersed in sub-zero liquid IMMEDIATELY puts them to sleep.

Oh, you're good.

I guess I was sub-consciously limiting myself to Time War daleks and on. Hard to picture one of them getting sleepy due to a bit of frost.

Dec 21, 2012 21:49:47 GMT chickenpaddy said:

I would say robots definitely DO NOT start with the environmental trait. Remember that the Robot trait refered to in the book is a general term. All robots are different. Some may require air to help vent exhaust, or to cool their mainframes.

That about sums it up for me. I can easily see all of the following:

• Robot shorting out due to total immersion.
  
• Robot overheating because it's in space and it can't disperse heat (this is a serious problem that has to be dealt with in real life)
  
• Robot lenses becoming caked in soot in a burning house filled with smoke (how often do you see a robot design that can blink or cry?)
  

Give a robot the Environment (Minor) or (Major) trait as appropriate, but I wouldn't do so every time. I would allow a robot character to spend Story Points in a way that a human character might not, though. "I'm shutting down my power generator. That way I wont short out due to the water, but I'll only be able to stay functional for four minutes".