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Post by zebaroth on Sept 21, 2011 23:57:54 GMT
magic in doctor who the closest thing that thing to magic Ihave seen is the Shakespeare code with the ceronites but what about true magic the reason i ask is that have an idea for a villen that has magic like powers but he has existed since the beginning of existence any input is welcomed
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Post by Escher on Sept 22, 2011 2:17:54 GMT
Check out the Pertwee adventure The Daemons.
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Post by Kit on Sept 22, 2011 5:49:06 GMT
Check out the Pertwee adventure The Daemons. That so needs to be on DVD
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Post by cliffordjones on Sept 22, 2011 8:07:36 GMT
The expanded Whoniverse seems to have plenty of room for the magical and mystical. The Gallifreyans are portrayed as having a culture built around a mystical/magical religion in the pre-Rasillon era. There are many references to elder powers that seem to blur the boundaries between the supernatural and super-science. Off the top of my head classic Who had Fenric and nuWho had The Beast.
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Post by Escher on Sept 22, 2011 15:46:08 GMT
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Post by zebaroth on Sept 22, 2011 20:26:32 GMT
Image of the Fendahl is on of my favorite episodes
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Post by Marnal on Sept 23, 2011 4:18:13 GMT
According to the Dr Who Novels Rassilon helped bannish all magic from the Whoniverse when he took power. About the only thing that escaped was the pseudo-scientific psionic powers.
So their WAS magic BEFORE Rassion built the Eye of Harmony. And as the power of the Time Lords waned at the beginning of the Time War [and they started losing the various Gallifrey's they'd built] magic started to become viable again. By the time of the 9th Doctor it is definitely back.
Its also worth noting that Grandfather Paradox hacked Rassilon's rationalization of the Universe and put in several back door cheat codes. This allows one to peform minor miracles. These codes take the form of very specific rituals and ceremonies. However, the REASON the codes look like spell casting has nothing to do with magic. The grandfather chose codes that looked like spell casting just to make it look like magic was back and to piss the Time Lords off.
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Post by Escher on Sept 23, 2011 20:33:21 GMT
Its also worth noting that Grandfather Paradox hacked Rassilon's rationalization of the Universe and put in several back door cheat codes. This allows one to peform minor miracles. These codes take the form of very specific rituals and ceremonies. However, the REASON the codes look like spell casting has nothing to do with magic. The grandfather chose codes that looked like spell casting just to make it look like magic was back and to piss the Time Lords off. Where is this from Marnal -what source?
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Post by Marnal on Sept 23, 2011 23:17:39 GMT
That particular bit was from "The Book of the War" and the [now offline] Faction Paradox website.
Its also possible that some people / cultures have accidently stumbled on some of the Faction Paradox 'cheat codes' and could be using them without any knowledge of their origin.
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Post by zebaroth on Sept 23, 2011 23:54:38 GMT
so my idea for magic based big bad dose have some bases and he has reason to want to destroy my time lord
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Post by da professor on Sept 24, 2011 9:45:59 GMT
so my idea for magic based big bad dose have some bases and he has reason to want to destroy my time lord Also, the timelord probably won't believe it is magic because he will have been raised by a culture which denies its existence. The Doctor has on several occasions said that there's no such thing.
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Post by zebaroth on Sept 24, 2011 19:29:24 GMT
so my idea for magic based big bad dose have some bases and he has reason to want to destroy my time lord Also, the timelord probably won't believe it is magic because he will have been raised by a culture which denies its existence. The Doctor has on several occasions said that there's no such thing. the timelord may think what he wants but that just makes the game that more fun
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Post by da professor on Sept 25, 2011 7:49:55 GMT
Also, the timelord probably won't believe it is magic because he will have been raised by a culture which denies its existence. The Doctor has on several occasions said that there's no such thing. the timelord may think what he wants but that just makes the game that more fun my point exactly.
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stahlman
3rd Incarnation
Doctor, stop wasting my time, will you?
Posts: 222
Favourite Doctors: second,third,fourth
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Post by stahlman on Sept 25, 2011 16:47:23 GMT
The sisters of Karn cursed the timelords with sterility forcing Rassilon to establish the structure of genetically engineered families-the point being the 'curse'-seems like the supernatural at work although the very rational timelords may prefer to explain this with the concept of psionics. Dr Who rather loosely encompasses science fiction,science fantasy and horror -it is so well established it probably even defines its own sub genre anyway.
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Post by jeffrywith1e on Jan 28, 2013 1:45:18 GMT
bringing this thread back from the dead,
how would one do magic with the DWAITAS system? Lets say the TARDIS arrives in Greyhawk, etc?
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Post by Pertwee on Jan 28, 2013 2:15:02 GMT
bringing this thread back from the dead, how would one do magic with the DWAITAS system? Lets say the TARDIS arrives in Greyhawk, etc? Traits. First, create a 'gateway' Trait, like Alien or Psychic. Sorcerer (Minor/Major/Special Good)The character can control mystical forces to perform what is, for all intents and purposes, magic.
Effect: As a Minor Trait, the character can spend 1 Story Point to change one die on any roll to whatever side they desire to represent some minor magical incantation that aids or interferes with the action.
As a Major Trait, the sorcerer can also spend 3 Story Points to automatically succeed at any task that would normally be achievable with the use of some tool. Climbing a wall, for example.
As a Special Trait, the Sorcerer may also take Spell Traits.Then create some Spell Traits with the Prerequisite : Sorcerer (Special). Spell Traits would represent specific incantations of greater power that allow the Sorcerer to achieve things above the Major level of Sorcerer, like invisibility, flight, etc. They would rate from Minor (Water Walking) to Major (Invisibility) to Special (Vortex travel). The basic Spell Traits could be Alien Traits with Alien replaced by Spell and the prerequisite being Sorcerer (Special). That's how I'd do it, at any rate...
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Post by da professor on Jan 28, 2013 12:56:20 GMT
Veeery In-ter-est (*YOINK*)-ing
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Post by jeffrywith1e on Jan 28, 2013 18:27:11 GMT
Alien Traits. That's great and so easy! Many spell descriptions could be a 'magic' version of what pretty much any gadget can do. Story Points seem to be the natural and mechanics-ready currency for spells. Another thought- looking through DWAITAS' bestiary of sorts. The only thing close to magic would probably be the Carrionites and their Word-Based Magic. Going with word-based and the power of names, etc. I thought of adapting a version of the "Four by Five" magic system. Four by Five for FUDGEFour by Five from MicroLite20: (so the below mechanics won't match DWAITAS)
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Post by Marnal on Jan 29, 2013 0:16:48 GMT
The way I did it was to just modify the Gadget Jiggery Pokery rules.
I created a trait called Ritualist, and if you've got that trait you can use magic to do anything a gadget could do. The upside is you don't need advanced tools or parts, and the time taken is significantly reduced. The downside is that each spell is effectively has the One Shot trait.
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stahlman
3rd Incarnation
Doctor, stop wasting my time, will you?
Posts: 222
Favourite Doctors: second,third,fourth
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Post by stahlman on Jan 29, 2013 7:51:17 GMT
If we accept the non Canon concept that the Vortes was created by Rassilon and is not a naturally occuring feature of the universe then we can accept that Rassilon was also capable of defining the parameters of the vortex and all of the points in time and space that could be reached. In turn he could have excised elements that he did not approve of-non rational matters like magic and the supernatural The trouble with this is that it makes Rassilon equivalent to an omniscient god-an irony that would not have been lost on him. I would much rather have the vortex as a feature of the unadjusted cosmos that was made accessible by timelord technology but the evidence of the series and the expanded universe is against me.
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Post by imajica on Feb 14, 2013 18:25:09 GMT
Going to take a look at how the new FATE handles magic, see what can be applied here. I like the simple gateway trait that's a prerequisite for any other forms of magic. Hollow Earth Expeditions (core rules free for the remainder of Feb 14th on RPGNow, magic isn't in the core) has a very similar approach. In fact, given that it's mechanically fairly similar I suspect the Magic system could be lifted lock, stock and barrel.
I rather like the old D6 Star Wars approach - Sense/Alter/Control (or whatever the order was. One of the kids appears to have taken my book). But if you really wanted a proper magic system, just lift it from Ars Magica.
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korith
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 131
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Post by korith on Feb 15, 2013 19:17:02 GMT
I rather like the old D6 Star Wars approach - Sense/Alter/Control (or whatever the order was. One of the kids appears to have taken my book). Control/Sense/Alter Each was its own stat, and was improved separately from the others. A force-using character could additionally learn a number of force powers with their effectiveness and reliability depending on said character's Force skills. The (generally) most powerful Force Powers combined two or three of the driving skills - for example, while you could Injure/Kill with a touch using Alter, projecting Force Lightning (iirc) required a combination of Control/Alter, and there were a large number of (non-core; core just had Affect Mind) powers that used all 3. I liked that system, too, although I'm not sure if the introduction of additional stats would be all that fitting with DWAITAS - I think I'd generally have magic driven by Ingenuity and/or Resolve (depending on whether "magic" is driven by a transcendent understanding of the universe allowing one to break the rules, or an inner will that overpowers the usual rules set by the universe to impose itself on its surroundings)
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Post by imajica on Feb 21, 2013 16:05:46 GMT
korith, that was the one! I wouldn't have them as separate stats, I'd have them as skills/talents that you could raise separately with control always having to be greater than sense, sense greater than alter. When using a power that combined one or more, use the lowest rating. In-house system I tried for a while used die-sizes so you'd have d8 Control, d6 sense, d4 alter or maybe d12 Control, d6 sense and nothing in Alter.
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zarohk
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 31
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Post by zarohk on Sept 2, 2013 20:31:20 GMT
While all of you have very interesting and advanced ideas about various ways to fit "magic" into DWAITAS, I chose a simpler alternative. Essentially, since magic appears to be an advanced form of magic in DWAITAS, my group has the occasional case where magic comes into play dealt with some combination of the Science skill as a character's skill at magic. Honestly, it also came about since we didn't use the Science skill and one person had come up with an arc in a pocket universe where people could do a form of "magic", and so we regaled the Science skill to actually being magic use for characters who know that magic, while dividing up the rolls of the Science skill into Technology and Knowledge.
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Post by jeffrywith1e on Mar 9, 2014 20:32:12 GMT
Check out the Pertwee adventure The Daemons. Haven't had a chance to look yet. Did they cover anything like magic in the 3rd Doctor Sourcebook?
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Post by Polar Bear on Mar 9, 2014 21:30:05 GMT
I'm not sure how DWAiTaS rules would cover a character like ST:TNG's "Q," either, without descending into magic.
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Post by mthomason on Mar 10, 2014 0:48:59 GMT
I'm not sure how DWAiTaS rules would cover a character like ST:TNG's "Q," either, without descending into magic. I'd handle that by putting him "above the rules". He's effectively a god-like being able to manipulate reality at will, and able to counter pretty much anything the characters could throw at him. The only time you'd need to resort to rules would be if he encountered another of his kind, and then you'd probably need a whole new extension to the system to cover that level of cosmic awesomeness. The only hope you have of getting one over on him would be through use of outwitting him at the RP level, or by using story points to get favorable circumstances, IMO.
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Post by Polar Bear on Mar 10, 2014 17:17:08 GMT
Q for RP purposes: A12, C12, I12, P2, R7, S12, all skills at 6? Plus traits, the "godlike powers" you'd mentioned, plus a code of conduct?
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Post by Marnal on Mar 10, 2014 17:30:41 GMT
The stats and rules for the Celestial Toymaker (page 130 of the 1st Dr Sourcebook) give a pretty good foundation at how to handle a Q-like character.
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Post by Escher on Mar 10, 2014 19:34:40 GMT
Check out the Pertwee adventure The Daemons. Haven't had a chance to look yet. Did they cover anything like magic in the 3rd Doctor Sourcebook? Not magic, but it's not really magic in the Whoniverse is it, its Psychic Energy...
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