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Post by kabukiman on Mar 30, 2010 19:07:44 GMT
This sounds like something that should be really simple, but after three sessions we're still kind of struggling with: A character is searching a room. They may be looking for something in particular, or it may be a general scan of their surroundings. They may or may not notice various things depending on their skill. In D&D this would probably a perception + D20. In Doctor Who it's, I'm guessing, Awareness + what? + 2D6. So what should be used for the skill or second attribute? If you say it depends on the specific surroundings I'm going to scream.
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Post by da professor on Mar 30, 2010 19:26:16 GMT
If just looking it's Awareness+Ingenuity. If looking for (or at) something in particular it's Awareness+relevant skill, or Ingenuity again if no skill is relevant.
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Post by kabukiman on Mar 30, 2010 19:32:50 GMT
That makes sense, thanks. I think our problem is that we often forget that we can use a second attribute rather than a skill.
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Mar 30, 2010 22:25:36 GMT
During the playtest, there was a separate Notice skill, but it was dropped in favour of Ingenuity or the relevant skill.
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Post by da professor on Mar 31, 2010 10:45:16 GMT
That makes sense, thanks. I think our problem is that we often forget that we can use a second attribute rather than a skill. It's easy to forget. As far as I know there are no other games using an attribute+skill mechanic which use that option. I've certainly not come across it before.
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Post by JohnK on Mar 31, 2010 15:18:38 GMT
Hullo, kabukiman, This sounds like something that should be really simple, but after three sessions we're still kind of struggling with: A character is searching a room. They may be looking for something in particular, or it may be a general scan of their surroundings. They may or may not notice various things depending on their skill. In D&D this would probably a perception + D20. In Doctor Who it's, I'm guessing, Awareness + what? + 2D6. So what should be used for the skill or second attribute? If you say it depends on the specific surroundings I'm going to scream. If one is just looking around or whatever, the roll would be Awareness + Ingenuity, but it could also be given as Awareness + Awareness. Otherwise, it would be Awareness + relevant or specific Skill.
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Post by JohnK on Mar 31, 2010 15:20:10 GMT
Hullo, kabukiman, That makes sense, thanks. I think our problem is that we often forget that we can use a second attribute rather than a skill. Yes, that is something that folks have to get used to in the game. I have always found it interesting that it works this way, but as I said, one can just double the Awareness Attribute for the general "look around" roll, too.
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Post by JohnK on Mar 31, 2010 15:21:12 GMT
Hullo, Craig, During the playtest, there was a separate Notice skill, but it was dropped in favour of Ingenuity or the relevant skill. Out of curiousity, do you know why the Notice skill was dropped? Other than the simplifying of the Skill system and keeping it down to 12 skills?
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Mar 31, 2010 19:02:00 GMT
Out of curiousity, do you know why the Notice skill was dropped? Other than the simplifying of the Skill system and keeping it down to 12 skills? That was about it really, AFAIK. The other notable casualty was an Alien Cultures skill, which got folded into Knowledge.
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Post by renegadetimelord on Mar 31, 2010 19:35:32 GMT
Obviously, nothing stopping anyone from house ruling Notice and Alien Cultures back into the game. A tweak to one of the locally created characters sheets shouldn't be too difficult.
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Post by JohnK on Apr 1, 2010 14:29:54 GMT
Hullo, Craig, Out of curiousity, do you know why the Notice skill was dropped? Other than the simplifying of the Skill system and keeping it down to 12 skills? That was about it really, AFAIK. The other notable casualty was an Alien Cultures skill, which got folded into Knowledge. I could see the Alien Cultures skill coming in useful, but to be honest, it does work better under the Knowledge Skill. The thing about the Notice Skill is that I can see where it might have been better to keep it in, but that said, the Awareness Attribute with a relevant Skill works just as well for most things.
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Post by 8thdoctor on Apr 12, 2010 9:57:58 GMT
We homebrewed a rule where if you only wish to use one attribute, you can and you just add 1d6. So for searching for something its Awareness +1d6. For solving a logic puzzle, its Igenuity+1d6. And all the values to beat are halved (10 being very difficult etc)
I swear I read that somewhere though. Appears I've just made it up :S But what about the Brave feat, it says gives +2 to Resolve checks to beat fear. Resolve + what? A 'Resolve check' or 'Resolve roll', however it was worded, sounds like something solely based on one attribute?
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Post by JohnK on Apr 12, 2010 14:48:41 GMT
Hullo, 8thdoctor, We homebrewed a rule where if you only wish to use one attribute, you can and you just add 1d6. So for searching for something its Awareness +1d6. For solving a logic puzzle, its Igenuity+1d6. And all the values to beat are halved (10 being very difficult etc) Frankly, there's no need for this sort of thing. The general check would be made using Awareness and Ingenuity, or perhaps Survival (in an outdoor setting). To solve that logic puzzle would be Ingenuity and Knowledge (AoE: Logic Puzzles). I swear I read that somewhere though. Appears I've just made it up :S But what about the Brave feat, it says gives +2 to Resolve checks to beat fear. Resolve + what? A 'Resolve check' or 'Resolve roll', however it was worded, sounds like something solely based on one attribute? Nope, the section on Getting Scared in both books gives the details. The creature makes a roll of Resolve and Presence versus the character's Resolve and Ingenuity, with both rolls modified by the appropriate Traits and other considerations.
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Post by ugavine on May 26, 2010 11:03:20 GMT
For Notice/Perception checks I've been using Awareness + Survival. I take the survival skill as an all encompasing survival insticts (eg. spotting an enemy sneaking up behind you), not just knowing how to make a camp fire etc.
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Post by olegrand on May 26, 2010 17:55:17 GMT
In my ongoing campaign, I've been using the following variant rule - sorry if the style is a bit verbose ;D- this is taken from a Dwaitas house rule compilation I'm currently working on.
Perception
When checking to see whether or not a character notices or detects something with one of his five senses, the rules suggest to use Awareness plus an appropriate skill (such as Survival or Subterfuge) if the character is actively looking for something and Awareness + Ingenuity if the character is passive (Gamemaster’s Guide, p 29).
This does seem really odd, for a variety of reasons :
First, since attributes do tend to be higher than skills, this approach is very likely to give characters better chances at noticing something when they are NOT actively looking for it – which is quite illogical.
Secondly, it seems somewhat paradoxical that a character’s Ingenuity should help him noticing things when he is NOT applying his mind to the task, especially since Ingenuity has no incidence on active perception. So, basically, you do not need Ingenuity to notice things when you ARE looking for them – but you do need it when you are NOT… No matter how hard you try to rationalize this, this really makes no sense.
The matter is further complicated by the lack of a general “detection” skill – sure, there are various situations where Survival, Subterfuge or Technology can work well as detection skills but in many cases, the GM will find it difficult to associate a specific skill to the simple task of looking for something odd.
The following option can be used to solve these three problems – the “better passive than active” problem, the “Ingenuity paradox” and the lack of a general, all-purpose perception skill.
For active perception, use Awareness+Ingenuity. In situations where a specific skill (such as Survival or Subterfuge) may apply, characters may use this skill instead of their Ingenuity – but only if this gives them better chances.
For passive perception, simply use the character’s raw Awareness, without adding any skill or second attribute. Sure, this will make things quite difficult – but hey, that’s all passive perception should be all about – raw Awareness, no active application of Ingenuity or skill and far smaller chances to notice things than if you were actively trying. Note that this also makes Keen Senses an even more crucial asset in passive perception situations.
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Post by da professor on May 26, 2010 18:31:44 GMT
The way I see it, the use of Ingenuity in Passive checks is because the character was smart enough to look around even when not looking for something specific. The fact that something is less likely to be spotted if one isn't actively looking for it may be reflected by a higher difficulty for Passive checks.
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Post by olegrand on May 26, 2010 18:37:28 GMT
The way I see it, the use of Ingenuity in Passive checks is because the character was smart enough to look around even when not looking for something specific. Well, honestly, IMHO, this does feel a bit convoluted - especially since Ingenuity suddenly disappears when you are actually paying attention. I really think my variant is more intuitive and 'logical'; it also has the extra advantage of giving a general, all-purpose 'perception check', something which the rules really lack IMHO. Of course, if you have no problems with the rules as written, using different difficulty levels for active / passive checks may also do the trick.
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flynn
1st Incarnation
Posts: 3
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Post by flynn on Jun 10, 2010 13:50:52 GMT
I've been meaning to ask that exact question. I like the Awareness + Ingenuety answer. I've been using Awareness + Subterfuge mostly to see if the Pcs were spotting something underhanded going on, usually an opposed roll.
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atrius
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 14
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Post by atrius on Jun 15, 2010 10:19:23 GMT
Awareness + Ingenuity works for my group, except if they know what they are looking for, then we use Awareness + Knowledge.
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Post by Eryx on Jun 22, 2010 15:08:07 GMT
Although my friends haven't played for a while (too many other RPG games going on right now), when we come back to DWAITAS I am very tempted to add in a notice/perception skill because to me it makes more sense to have it.
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