Fighting the Time War

[8thdoctor]

Had inspiration earlier today to set up a series of mini-games based on events that happened during the Time War. Where as an out and out epic scale battle would be hard to control, I've gone with the idea of a band of elite Time Lords sent as a hit squad to carry out certain tasks (think of 4th being sent to Skaro in Genesis, or 4th and Romana being sent to retrieve the Key to Time - except in the Time War). Here's just a few notes I jotted down. Will submit write ups for the equipment and vehicles.

Basic Set Up
- The group play as a team of Time Lords sent to perform a certain task during the Time War.
- A good team has technical experts and combat experts.
- Players are entitled to their own TARDIS (regular or battle TARDIS – at least one regular TARDIS per team. At least one TARDIS will contain a Genesis Ark. If the Game Master wants to be more accurate then 6 players to each TARDIS, but I want to play with a multiple TARDIS scenario.).
- Gives plenty of scope to really play with lots of Regeneration.
- Primary antagonists will be the Daleks.
- Missions will be strategic and feature mission objectives and combat.
- Key characters available for play include the Doctor (8th incarnation), the Master (from his resurrection up to and including Jacobi incarnation - we do not know if Jacobi was the first of the ressurected Master's regenerations), Romana (2nd or 3rd incarnation), Leela or K-9 (K-9 only playable if Romana or Leela is in the party).
- If the Doctor or the Master regenerate, Game Master needs to make the characters depart the game before they get the chance to regenerate into the 10th Doctor or the John Simm Master. The Doctor is only allowed to regenerate from the 8th Doctor to the 9th Doctor.
-The Doctor and the Master should not work along side each other in any team. The Doctor was not aware that the Master fought in the Time War.
- Customised Time Lords are largely encouraged.
- Each team member will bear arms (even the Doctor).
- There will be a set of standard equipment that includes:
- Stasis Field Generator (series of 3 posts that generate an area of statis when activated)
- One Time Ring (used as an emergency recall unit - brings the wearer back to their TARDIS upon activation)
- Communicators (for all members)
- The Seal of Rassilon (for all members - used as ID to prove that they represent the Time Lord Council)
- Warpfold Manipulator (Spacetime manipulator - large machine that can cause or cure rifts and temporal anomalies)
- Biodampers (for all members - hides the wearer's true species from scans)
- A Vortex Cannon (teleports the target into the Time Vortex - objects not designed for time travel will break up in the Time Winds)
-Any other equipment that the Game Master thinks that they Council would supply them with for the mission at hand.

[8thdoctor]

A story seed would be something like a hit squad sent aboard Davros's command ship with the aim of assassinating the scientist. Only to have the ship fall under attack by the Nightmare Child, in which the players must desperately try to flee the ship.

The Master could attempt to save the Cruciform from the Dalek Emperor. We could find out exactly what it was that scared him so.

The fall of Arcadia?
A duel with the Could've Been King?
Even a fight with Rassilon maybe?

[zebaroth]

sounds cool

[Marnal]

I’d argue that “The Book of the War” from the Faction Paradox line would be a nigh-essential source book for such a campaign.

www.madnorwegian.com/fp/product.php?item=Bfp00botw

- Marnal Gate

For Everything about the TARDIS check out
www.whoniverse.net/tardis/

For all things Gallifreyan check out
meshyfish.com/~roo/index.html

[Null and Void]

Feb 17, 2010 17:17:20 GMT Marnal said:

I’d argue that “The Book of the War” from the Faction Paradox line would be a nigh-essential source book for such a campaign.

www.madnorwegian.com/fp/product.php?item=Bfp00botw

- Marnal Gate

For Everything about the TARDIS check out
www.whoniverse.net/tardis/

For all things Gallifreyan check out
meshyfish.com/~roo/index.html

I'd recommend The Book of the War for almost anything set in that time line, and beyond. The wealth of ideas and the complex nature of the conflict is examined in meticulous detail... even if the major protaganists have been renamed. The renaming is thin enough that a Doctor Who fan shouldn't have any issues with seeing through the veil.

[Craig Oxbrow]

I think it's safe to assume that the Lawrence Miles version will not match up with the Russell T. Davies one...

[Kit]

Feb 17, 2010 20:47:04 GMT Craig Oxbrow said:

I think it's safe to assume that the Lawrence Miles version will not match up with the Russell T. Davies one...

Are we likely to get a detailed Davies version of the Time War?

[Curufea]

The important difference between the Book of the War and the TV series Time War is - The Daleks.

And I'll always hold to the idea that the Daleks are just plain stupid. They aren't inventive, creative or devious enough to be The Enemy. They have their moments, but require a really good run up to an idea before they will actually have one. The Enemy is innovative, ineffable and a serious threat to the nature of reality. The Daleks have never effected the nature of reality - just what was in it (ie they have never been able to change the laws of time or physics).

The Daleks may be the destroyers of Gallifrey - I have no problem with that, in the same way that the Sontarans were destroyers of the 11 Day Empire. They are soldiers and warriors, and above all else pawns of a higher power.

[Craig Oxbrow]

Feb 17, 2010 21:01:02 GMT Kit said:

Are we likely to get a detailed Davies version of the Time War?

I don't think so. He mentions considering a novel in The Writer's Tale 2 but that doesn't seem likely. His main concerns are voiced in a Doctor Who Magazine interview about The End Of Time:

"I was careful to say that Gallifrey is on the very edge of the Time War. This is just a glimpse of a sci-fi battlefield, and it's magnificent, but the heart of it is raw and unimaginable, certainly unfilmable. It's as close as I ever want to go. The whole thing is portrayed most vividly with words, with the Doctor's speech about the Skaro Degradations, and the Couldhavebeen King with his army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres. Even an unlimited budget couldn't show something that horrific. The Time War should always be something that you can never quite look at."

The most we've gotten beforehand is his "Meet the Doctor" introduction to the first new series Annual, quoted in its entirety here.

[Marnal]

“…The Time War should always be something that you can never quite look at.”

Which is exactly what you get when you read “The Book of the War” a conflict that is so big that even trying to document the first 50 years isn’t really possible. I’d say 85% of the book is about the side effects of the Time War. And most of the remaining stuff is just descriptions of the characters and tech – not hard information about actual battles.

Add to that, the fact that “The Book of the War” is the most entertaining RPG-ish sourcebook I’ve ever read – and it’s a no brainer. Of course YMMV.

As for the issue of how clever the Daleks are…
“War of the Daleks” makes them some of the most dangerous and clever manipulating bastards we’ve ever seen in “Dr Who.” (Yes I know it’s a crappy novel, but if you take it at face value it does make the Daleks scary and smart enough to fight a Lawrence Miles style Time War).

Again, YMMV, but the Daleks in my games overtly control whole Galaxies and (more disturbingly) they control many other galaxies through clones placed in governmental offices and in the criminal underworld. Davros built them as war machines. But, above all, they crave POWER. And they’ll take the path of least resistance to get it.

- Marnal Gate

"I was told by the producer that the
guiding principle was to make the
scripts complex enough to keep the
Kids interested and simple enough for
the Adults to understand!"
-Douglas Adams on writing Doctor Who

For Everything about the TARDIS check out
www.whoniverse.net/tardis/

For all things Gallifreyan check out
meshyfish.com/~roo/index.html

[8thdoctor]

But it has always been the stupidity of the Daleks that has almost made them scary. The flawed logic that the Universe would be a better place if all other races were exterminated. I often ponder what Davros and the Daleks would have done following the events of Journey's End if the Reality Bomb had destroyed everything. Davros would just have to twiddle his thumbs until a civil war inevitably broke out amongst the daleks.

But Davros is insane and he programmed the Daleks, ingraining such flawed logic into their very being. They ARE stupid and unimaginative at times - but the scariest thing is that they BELIEVE everything Davros taught them. A dalek is so stupid that it can't listen to reason, it can't comprehend a logical argument from one of it's victims, pleading to be left alive. It WILL do as its told.

Whilst they might not be devious, its the combination of stupidity and immense power that makes them scary.

[Curufea]

Every war the Daleks are involved with - they have a couple of new gimicks to try.
How many inventions did humans make during world wars?

They are bullies in act and tactic. The best they can hope for with subtlety is to bully a human to do it for them.

I have no problem with Daleks controlling galaxies that are mainly time unaware races. I do have problems with Daleks manipulating Conceptual Space.

The Cybermen are more inventive and sneaky than the Daleks.

[Null and Void]

I think there is room for both the Daleks and The Enemy. For one thing, the war with the Enemy is as much as concept as it is physical, and could simply be yet another front that the Time Lords have to cover while dealing with the Real Space problems caused by the Daleks. In other words, from the outside, the Time War looks like its against the Daleks, because that is where the bloodiest battles are being waged... The War (In the FP sense) is much more subtle and does not necessarily even *need* combat in order to take place...

I've always considered the War (in the FP sense) to be more akin to an infection, rewriting the DNA of Time itself. The Time War on the other hand is a vast and bloody, but ultimately physical conflict. The Daleks are ultimately conquerors and destroyers... they want to take over the Time Lords place as the masters of time by wiping out the Time Lords. The Enemy however wants to replace the Time Lords by making them like itself, not by wiping them out, but by making history a part of itself... Its a more fundamental conflict.

At any rate, thats the way I'm playing it. The Daleks are the enemy, but not The Enemy. The Time Lords ARE at war with the Daleks in Realspace, but are also at war in a more conceptual space with The Enemy. It doesn't really matter if the Daleks are pawns or unwitting allies of the Enemy. Both are real threats in very different senses.

It occurs to me that even the bulk of Time Lords might not realize the full extent of the War. Most of them are probably focussed on the Daleks, with only a few capable of perceiving the other side of it.

I love it, but it makes my head ache.

[morbus]

Personnally, i go farther : the War in Heaven between the Enemy and the TL, but also the FP, the Celestis, the Remote, and other factions, was one side.

The Last Great Time War between the Daleks and the TL was TOTALLY ANOTHER war.

The Book of the War and the FP books are, however, useful even to apprehend the Last Great Time War : they show how fight a Time War. Tricks, counter-tricks and retro-counter-tricks. Conceptual weapons. Paradox virus. Sentient time machines. Booby-trapped time areas. And playing the lesser species like toys. It also shows the evolution of the TL before and during the War in Heaven.

So, we can imagine a little how the TL and Daleks would have fought. But it's not the same war, because it was stated that the two events were separate (like the two World Wars) and because it was NEVER stated that it is the SAME war. Moreover, the Daleks and the Enemy are totally different in their very nature.

But the Daleks are rather credible as enemies for the TL. They are stupid because they would never accept a TRUE peace (or coexistence) -even if they are able to make truces or even alliances, to betray them later. But they are cunning at war. See Victory of the Daleks. They totally outwitted the Doctor (barring that they didn't destroyed Earth).

I totally see them create temporal weapons. I totally see them using conceptual weapons. After all, when they took over the Satellite 5 and then the Game Station, it was ALSO conceptual weapons : they attacked the INTELLECT of the Humanity. And i totally see them manipulate the lesser species and their timelines, set time-traps.

The Daleks were far more experienced to the war than the TL, and probably better weaponed (at least for the non-temporal weapons). They don't fear the death, and are ready to sacrifiy 99 percent of the race if it means save the 1 remaining percent and win.

[Marnal]

By this logic, the TARDIS the Doctor uses in the 2005 series is not the same one he uses in the 1989 TV series. I don't think they are ever stated on screen to be the same.

;D

[dvalkyrie74]

There is also the other loop hole like the Movellan-Dalek war...who won?

My little game group a year ago ran a Time War campaign, but we played it like a Espionage adventure. Instead of playing the grand epic Time War, we played timelords who were sent on a mission to stop the creation of a Sontaran timeship. We converted the use of a Star Wars Adventure that used to be on another game company's website.

It was well-received by the players. It was also finished successfully that connected to the Sontaran episode where one Sontaran said something like it was outrageous that the might of the Sontaran Empire was left out of the greatest war of all time.

[Craig Oxbrow]

Sept 17, 2011 23:21:23 GMT dvalkyrie74 said:

There is also the other loop hole like the Movellan-Dalek war...who won?

When was the last time we had a Movellan episode?

(And I say this as someone who likes the idea behind them.)

[Kit]

Sept 17, 2011 15:20:14 GMT Marnal said:

By this logic, the TARDIS the Doctor uses in the 2005 series is not the same one he uses in the 1989 TV series. I don't think they are ever stated on screen to be the same.

;D

"THE Doctor's Wife" episode would appear to indicate that the doctor has had only the one TARDIS

[Marnal]

"THE Doctor's Wife" episode would appear to indicate that the doctor has had only the one TARDIS

So up until that episode was broadcast did morbus view them as two different TARDISes? ;D