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Post by ugavine on Feb 9, 2010 16:21:36 GMT
In Paul Cornells blog (I think it was his) he wrote that there can be no true canon in Doctor Who due too all the time travel. With that I kind of agree.
But how far do you go with including fiction from sources other than the TV Series? Big Finish? Current novels? Missing Adventures? Annuals? Comics?
Hmm... comics. now that is a can of worms. Forget 6 degrees of seperation, this goes on and on (let's just ignore that some are classed as 'what if' stories). The Doctor met Death's Head, therefore The Doctor exists in the Marvel Universe along with the Transformers. Which includes Spiderman, X-Men etc. X-Men met the crew of Star Trek. Spiderman has met Batman, who has met Judge Dredd. Dredd & Batman have fought The Predator who exists in the same universe as ALIENS. Batman also fought Dracula. The list goes on and on.
Personally I had enough crossovers in my old Star Wars game that I won't be using any of the above. But I just wondered if the X-Men etc. exist in your Doctor Who Universe?
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Post by JohnK on Feb 9, 2010 16:42:00 GMT
Hullo, Ugavine, In Paul Cornells blog (I think it was his) he wrote that there can be no true canon in Doctor Who due too all the time travel. With that I kind of agree. But how far do you go with including fiction from sources other than the TV Series? Big Finish? Current novels? Missing Adventures? Annuals? Comics? For my own games and writing of material and all, I consider the tv series itself to be the only true canon, with a few modifications (for example, I don't like the idea of the Doctor being half-human, and so disregard that in my campaign). When I do have access to other information, I can use it as possible inspiration for scenario ideas and other stuff. One of the things I like about AHistory is the fact that it provides short synopses of all the stuff that's out there, not just the tv episodes themselves, and so that can serve as a bit of inspiration. When I get the money, I'll also be picking up the graphic novels of the Doctor's adventures from the comics, too.
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Post by Siskoid on Feb 9, 2010 18:08:15 GMT
Me... I consider the books and audios to be canonical unless the new series has invalidated it (the 2 Human Natures for example are unlikely to both have happened). I don't consider the comics to be canon because many of them diverge wildly from canon.
But for my GAME... I consider the show to be the main canon, but the novels and audios not to be. Why? Because I'm not above hacking their plots to run the players through. It will even be fun to lend someone an audio to see how they did compared to the Doctor. In other words, canon is what both I and the players all have access to. What they don't know is game fodder.
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skagra
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 59
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Post by skagra on Feb 9, 2010 20:00:42 GMT
The Doctor met Death's Head, therefore The Doctor exists in the Marvel Universe along with the Transformers... I'd love to see Death's Head with stats! The Tenth doctor says that in the days of the Timelords you could hop from universe to universe and back in time for tea. I consider the Marvel universe (universes?) canonical in the Whoniverse, but as parallel worlds. That said, it's unlikely I'll ever be using marvel characters in any campaigns (except maybe Death's Head). Unless C7 makes another compatible game, I'm not likely to go for a cross over. Why? Because I'm not above hacking their plots to run the players through. I love the comics and audios. while I am sure to use characters and venues from these mediums, I will consider the actual events to be part of Doctor Who continuity. Hence I will want my adventures to fit within that continuity, and not to rewrite it.
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Post by Curufea on Feb 9, 2010 21:48:01 GMT
Marvel is possibly they only universe I can think of that has less continuity than Doctor Who I'd put them in an a different universe, with that universe's Doctor. BTW, Predator and Alien belong to Dark Horse, not Marvel. Sure they had crossovers - but crossovers are pretty much "Lets make a quick buck with trademarks and not worry about continuity" A crossover has even less continuity than any other kind of comic in the Marvel (or DC in the case of Batman and Superman) comic. BTW, has the Doctor appeared in a DC crossover? If not, then he's not in the same universe as Aliens and Predators. The DC universe is not the same one as the Marvel one.
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cliffr
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 69
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Post by cliffr on Feb 9, 2010 23:52:14 GMT
Marvel is possibly they only universe I can think of that has less continuity than Doctor Who I'd put them in an a different universe, with that universe's Doctor. BTW, Predator and Alien belong to Dark Horse, not Marvel. Sure they had crossovers - but crossovers are pretty much "Lets make a quick buck with trademarks and not worry about continuity" A crossover has even less continuity than any other kind of comic in the Marvel (or DC in the case of Batman and Superman) comic. BTW, has the Doctor appeared in a DC crossover? If not, then he's not in the same universe as Aliens and Predators. The DC universe is not the same one as the Marvel one. Actually regardless of whether he's appeared in DC, the Doctor can be said to exist in the Aliens/Predator universe thanks to the alien egg in "Dalek".
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Post by ugavine on Feb 10, 2010 0:15:08 GMT
I'd love to see Death's Head with stats! Already done ;D dwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=characters&action=display&thread=528I know that, I buy Dark Horse comics. I did say "let's just ignore that some are classed as 'what if' stories." Batman/Dracula for example cannot fit into the continuity of Batman (I won't say why because of spoilers). But then a lot of Batman doesn't fit into the continuity of Batman. I think you missed the point of my 6 degrees of separation. The Doctor met Deaths Head Deaths Head met the X-Men The X-Men met Spiderman Spiderman met Batman Batman met Judge Dredd Judge Dredd met The Predator The Predator met Aliens. Therefore they all exist together. Now, also take into account The Age of Steel/Rise of the Cybermen which proves that Alternative universes exist within the scope of Doctor Who. Therefore any of the above is possible because even if they are Alternative Universes, Alternative Universes exists in Doctor Who.
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Post by Curufea on Feb 10, 2010 0:30:00 GMT
Well, alternate universes existed in the old TV series of Doctor Who (and the books) as well - I'm saying they should be in different universes, not in the new TV series universe.
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skagra
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 59
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Post by skagra on Feb 10, 2010 0:52:32 GMT
I love you! I did say "let's just ignore that some are classed as 'what if' stories." I always thought the what if stories where never meant to have actually happened - as opposed to having happened in an alternative reality. I wouldn't want to count these as legitimate interactions. Now, also take into account The Age of Steel/Rise of the Cybermen which proves that Alternative universes exist within the scope of Doctor Who. Therefore any of the above is possible because even if they are Alternative Universes, Alternative Universes exists in Doctor Who. I no Marvel expert, but isn't the Marvel world base on the premise of many universes too?
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Post by Kit on Feb 10, 2010 4:41:38 GMT
I think you missed the point of my 6 degrees of separation. The Doctor met Deaths Head Deaths Head met the X-Men The X-Men met Spiderman Spiderman met Batman Batman met Judge Dredd Judge Dredd met The Predator The Predator met Aliens. Therefore they all exist together. I'm not into this sort of thing myself, but Batman fought Predators in at least one miniseries. Batman knows Superman and Superman fought Aliens in at least one miniseries.
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Post by Andrew Tatro on Feb 10, 2010 6:35:21 GMT
I think you missed the point of my 6 degrees of separation. The Doctor met Deaths Head Deaths Head met the X-Men The X-Men met Spiderman Spiderman met Batman Batman met Judge Dredd Judge Dredd met The Predator The Predator met Aliens. Therefore they all exist together. I'm not into this sort of thing myself, but Batman fought Predators in at least one miniseries. Batman knows Superman and Superman fought Aliens in at least one miniseries. If nothing else, the Aliens canonically destroyed the original incarnation of the Stormwatch superteam, and their universe is officially Earth-50 in the DC comic continuity. To take it a few more steps, the Weyland-Yutani corporation ("The Company" of Aliens fame) has appeared in Firefly, Angel, and Red Dwarf. And of course we know that the Hitchhiker's Guide cosmology fits in to Who thanks to such episodes as Destiny of the Daleks and The Christmas Invasion. A lot to take in even before considering the mishmash that it involves itself in when its connections to Red Dwarf and Star Trek mean it's hooked into the massive sprawl that is the Tommy Westphall Universe...
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Post by ugavine on Feb 10, 2010 8:33:00 GMT
As I said, personally I'm not going to count any of the above in my games unless it suits me, which is doubtfull. But I just find it amusing that Doctor Who can be connected with them all.
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Post by Siskoid on Feb 10, 2010 15:13:37 GMT
The Doctor also exists in the world of the Paranoia RPG, having appeared in Vulture Warrios of Dimension X, oh and in the World of Greyhawk as per Castle Greyhawk.
And the Simpsonsiverse, of course.
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Post by Eryx on Feb 13, 2010 19:23:55 GMT
As far as I am concerned the TV show is pure canon. I will take the novels and the audio dramas on a case by case basis.
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Post by traveller61 on Feb 13, 2010 20:10:04 GMT
The cross-over that never was! A few years ago I was at a talk by Gareth Thomas (Blake of Blake's7) and he mentioned being great friends of Tom Baker and wanting him to have a cameo appearance in B7; his suggestion was to have them just passing in a corridor with a simple "Morning Doctor" and "Morning Blake" and them going on their way. Alas the BBC at the time threw up their hands in horror and it never came to be DW
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Post by ugavine on Feb 13, 2010 23:21:52 GMT
The original ending to Blake's 7 (I'm a also a big fan of Blake's 7) was that the Daleks were going to be the ones in control of the Federation.
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Post by Kit on Feb 14, 2010 2:19:44 GMT
The original ending to Blake's 7 (I'm a also a big fan of Blake's 7) was that the Daleks were going to be the ones in control of the Federation. Interesting. Can you cite a source for this? i'd like to know more.
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Post by da professor on Feb 14, 2010 9:28:34 GMT
I'd heard the same rumour, possibly derived from the fact that the daleks and Blake's 7 were both created by Terry Nation... as was Survivors..hmm...the plague might be a dalek bioweapon if anyone wanted to do THAT crossover.
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Post by Spickey Millane on Feb 14, 2010 12:06:31 GMT
A few years ago I was at a talk by Gareth Thomas (Blake of Blake's7) and he mentioned being great friends of Tom Baker and wanting him to have a cameo appearance in B7; his suggestion was to have them just passing in a corridor with a simple "Morning Doctor" and "Morning Blake" and them going on their way. Alas the BBC at the time threw up their hands in horror and it never came to be What a wasted opportunity. I think this was mentioned in one of the Blake's 7 DVD commentaries too (as I've definitely heard it before). I recall hearing the rumour of Terry Nation wanting the Daleks to appear too (without any further ideas of how, when or where), but possibly just on here. Before seeing the rumour that that they were to be in charge of The Federation, it had me wondering if the Daleks could have been the alien invaders from the end of series two/beginning of series three. Not that the storyline wasn't perfectly fine as it stands of course, but that could have been another interesting use of Daleks (although I'd imagine they would have been used on screen far more than the mostly unseen (The Invaders like) alien threat). I'd love to see Avon ducking Dalek blasts, planting an explosive to their shell and pushing one down a corridor ;D
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Post by JohnK on Feb 14, 2010 15:42:36 GMT
Hullo, traveller61, The cross-over that never was! A few years ago I was at a talk by Gareth Thomas (Blake of Blake's7) and he mentioned being great friends of Tom Baker and wanting him to have a cameo appearance in B7; his suggestion was to have them just passing in a corridor with a simple "Morning Doctor" and "Morning Blake" and them going on their way. Alas the BBC at the time threw up their hands in horror and it never came to be Thank Goddess this never came to pass!
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Post by JohnK on Feb 14, 2010 15:57:23 GMT
Hullo, Ugavine, The original ending to Blake's 7 (I'm a also a big fan of Blake's 7) was that the Daleks were going to be the ones in control of the Federation. Got a link pointing towards this? I would love to read more about this.
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Post by ugavine on Feb 15, 2010 15:01:45 GMT
Hullo, Ugavine, The original ending to Blake's 7 (I'm a also a big fan of Blake's 7) was that the Daleks were going to be the ones in control of the Federation. Got a link pointing towards this? I would love to read more about this. I don't think there is much on the subject to be honest, just conversations Terry Nation had with people. To check I wasn't going mad I ran a quick Google search and instantly found reference to it here www.shannonsullivan.com/drwho/serials/5j.htmlAgain, just a single reference and no real detail. I don't think it was any more than a passing idea Terry Nation had for Blake's 7.
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Post by JohnK on Feb 15, 2010 15:55:03 GMT
Hullo, Ugavine, Hullo, Ugavine, Got a link pointing towards this? I would love to read more about this. I don't think there is much on the subject to be honest, just conversations Terry Nation had with people. To check I wasn't going mad I ran a quick Google search and instantly found reference to it here www.shannonsullivan.com/drwho/serials/5j.htmlAgain, just a single reference and no real detail. I don't think it was any more than a passing idea Terry Nation had for Blake's 7. Frankly, that one line isn't definitive proof of anything, although I had wondered if there might be something about this on the Blake's 7 DVDs. Which I don't have, as they've not been done up for Region 1. <annoyed look>
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rsaintjohn
2nd Incarnation
The Threefold Man
Posts: 77
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Post by rsaintjohn on Feb 15, 2010 22:49:26 GMT
Frankly, that one line isn't definitive proof of anything, although I had wondered if there might be something about this on the Blake's 7 DVDs. Which I don't have, as they've not been done up for Region 1. <annoyed look> I have them and don't recall any mention of the Daleks in extras or commentary. But, it's not the first time I've heard this rumor (or a similar one), going all the way back to the 80s. I suspect it was something either mentioned in a fanzine or a UK convention. The way I recall it was that it would turn out to be the Daleks behind the plague that was unleashed in "Killer", and that they would be revealed to be the invading alien force in the Series 2 finale, "Star One".
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Post by JohnK on Feb 16, 2010 15:47:21 GMT
Hullo, rsaintjohn, Frankly, that one line isn't definitive proof of anything, although I had wondered if there might be something about this on the Blake's 7 DVDs. Which I don't have, as they've not been done up for Region 1. <annoyed look> I have them and don't recall any mention of the Daleks in extras or commentary. But, it's not the first time I've heard this rumor (or a similar one), going all the way back to the 80s. I suspect it was something either mentioned in a fanzine or a UK convention. The way I recall it was that it would turn out to be the Daleks behind the plague that was unleashed in "Killer", and that they would be revealed to be the invading alien force in the Series 2 finale, "Star One". I figured it might be something like that. Ah well... I just wish that B7 would be released for Region 1. *deep sigh*
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Post by da professor on Feb 20, 2010 10:07:52 GMT
I just hope they don't make too much of a mess of the remake. Also that they put it on somewhere that isn't a subscription only channel.
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Post by mrfinch on Mar 24, 2010 9:47:53 GMT
Hello, I'm playing to Marvel univers RPG and I have make a "Doctor" for a party. But this was before the Dr Who RPG and the rule for action : 1 Talk, 2 doing things, 3 running, 4 Shooting. And presently I try to manage a way to make this part in the Dr who NPC for marvel ! But in the Marvel Rule Agility is the thing that chose who playing first. So I have to find a way to boost the agility of my Doctor and make him first to move all the time.
Int 8 Str 2 Agi 3 Spd 2 Dur 2
Heal 2 Energy 16 (Int)
Close combat : 2 Ranged Combat : 3 Sonic screwdriver Social Skills : 7 Knowing kind and univers Knowing History Time period
Modifier Good Luck Immortality
Equipement : Tardis : Time travelling Healing Factor instant if the doctor needing (New physical apparence by using) Mindwipping of timemaster.
Sonic Screwdriver : Open/Cell All computing access and reparing.
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Post by whichdoctor on Apr 3, 2010 4:58:47 GMT
Well, here's an example of that six-degree thing you mentioned.... The TARDIS once appeared in the hangar bay of "Red Dwarf", which links it (in theory) with that series. Scarier still, a Klingon Bird of Prey also appeared on "Red Dwarf", creating a link between Doctor Who and Star Trek. This opens up a huge wibbly-wobbly crossover mess which is known as the "Tommy Westphall Multiverse." Tommy Westphall was a character on a show called St. Elsewhere that aired back in the 1980's. Tommy was portrayed as autistic, and at the end of the series run it was revealed that the entire series had been a product of his imagination. Here's where it gets huge. St. Elsewhere had direct crossovers with no less than twelve other series. Most of these involved cameos or in-character guest shots from other shows, meaning that any series that did a crossover with St. Elsewhere was also a product of Tommy's imagination. Of course, all of these series had their share of crossovers, cameos, and in-jokes too...resulting in a kind of six-degrees-of-separation cascade effect where just about any series you could name is part of the continuity of any other series....which means all of TV Land is being generated in poor Tommy Westphall's head. And yes, Doctor Who is connected to this mess, via Red Dwarf and Star Trek. So really, the TARDIS could show up outside "Cheers" or Central Perk, or the Doctor could get some assistance from the folks at CSI: Miami, or hang out with Mork from Ork, and it would be perfectly canon, in a wibbly-wobbly kind of way. Here's the link to the list of shows in the Westphall-Verse. home.vicnet.net.au/~kwgow/crossovers.html
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Post by Rel Fexive on Apr 3, 2010 9:36:27 GMT
It's an interesting idea that I've seen mentioned elsewhere (ho ho) but it does ignore the possibility that he could have been imagining a "crossover" with existing TV he could've seen, y'know, on television, doesn't it? It's amusing but overly complicated.
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Post by imajica on Apr 7, 2010 12:44:27 GMT
Back in the mists of history, Colin Baker era I think, there was a comedy show: Chelmsford 123. I remember very little about this show apart from one scene where, in the background, the TARDIS materializes, the Doctor emerges and urinates behind a tree before returning to the TARDIS which promptly leaves.
How this adds to the continuity/crossover potential, I'm not sure. Just another cameo appearance.
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