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Post by ugavine on Jan 17, 2010 16:57:16 GMT
As the title says, one of my players wants to play a Werewolf, or Lupine wavelength haemovarioform, whichever way you want to call it. While initially opposed to the idea I have to admit I was quite fond of Mags in Greatest Show in the Galaxy. Thing is, I know from experience in other games, that this can be a huge bonus. So while I want to appease him I also want to have a major down side to the curse. I don't want my Doctor Who game to be a fight game, and it will become that if I give him a combat character like a Werewolf. Possible Ideas; - He cannot control the Wolf, if he transforms he will attack the nearest being, friend or foe. He will change back at GM discretion. - Not everyone he scratches becomes a Werewolf. It's 1 in 6 or GM discretion. - Transforms into wolf if extremely angered or injured, maybe a save to stop transformation (I didn't want to use the moon as a trigger). - during a Full moon, if the planet he's on even has a moon, he can control the Wolf (a minor bonus there). Please, I am open to any other ideas.  |
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Post by Null and Void on Jan 17, 2010 17:20:37 GMT
First off, there's nothing that suggests Mags was the same sort of werewolf as the one encountered by Queen Victoria. In fact, it simply seems to be a part of her species. You could easily make it so that people simply AREN'T transformed by the bite or scratch due to species differentiation.
Now, that said, its your game, so if you think allowing this would transform your game into something you don't want, then don't allow it.
I would stick with a lunar transformation cycle, because then you, as the GM, can control when it will come into play or not, and STILL make plenty of adventures where it doesn't come up at all. That way, you can sidestep the problem of it being a 'combat monster' in a game that emphasizes outthinking and outtalking enemies. Another way of doing it is to charge a hefty number of story points in order to make the transition... maybe 4 or 5 at a pop. Alternately, make it a permenant expenditure, like is done for Time Lord.
As a wolf, he should have Fear Factor and Natural Weapons. Weakness: Silver might also apply.
The uncontrolled frenzy you describe, attacking friend and foe alike could lead to some awkward situations, particularly if he's usually closest to his allies.
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cliffr
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 69
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Post by cliffr on Jan 17, 2010 20:21:05 GMT
I would go with the Hulk style personally (when he's angry or afraid). That way, you as the GM can control it. This has the handy benefit of letting you use the wolf state either to cause trouble for the players when things are going too easily, or to help them out when things are getting really dangerous (having a raging wolf man appear on the enemy's side could make even a Sontaran reconsider attacking).
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Post by ugavine on Jan 17, 2010 20:35:57 GMT
Story Points would be a good way to control it. Maybe if he transforms he makes a Difficult save to be able to control it or spend a Story Point.
That's the point. Mags was all ready to attack her friends.
Maybe his friends get to make a Presence check to convice him they are friendly.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 21:06:54 GMT
I would go with the Hulk style personally (when he's angry or afraid). That way, you as the GM can control it. Ha! Won't take a player long to get round that one. They're devious little blighters |
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Post by ugavine on Jan 17, 2010 22:49:41 GMT
I would go with the Hulk style personally (when he's angry or afraid). That way, you as the GM can control it. Ha! Won't take a player long to get round that one. They're devious little blighters Yeah, I know that. That's why I think a wound should be the answer rather than just angry. an no, just jabbing himself with a pencil won't count. |
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Post by Curufea on Jan 17, 2010 22:52:15 GMT
I would go with the Hulk style personally (when he's angry or afraid). That way, you as the GM can control it. Ha! Won't take a player long to get round that one. They're devious little blighters But that's not really a problem. The game isn't about thwarting players, the game is about everyone having fun based on what everyone does (including the GM). If players bypass my carefully laid out plot because they've been clever - I like it, especially if they've also been entertaining and have generally raised the mood of other players. I scrap the plot and adlib. Sometimes the definition of fun changes. In horror games, the fun is in being scared or horrified. In mysteries the fun is not knowing ... yet. |
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 23:06:56 GMT
Ha! Won't take a player long to get round that one. They're devious little blighters But that's not really a problem. The game isn't about thwarting players Where did I say it was? But, let's face it, when you get this: "Your character is a were-wolf, who is transformed into a rampaging force of destruction whenever there's a full moon or is injured." Player A nods thoughtfully, and begins to imagine life as a werewolf, what the emotional highs and lows must be, the dangers and rewards ... Meanwhile, there will always be somebody like Player B ... "Cool! I'm totally testing this! As soon as we get to a town I'll stab myself in the arm (somewhere relatively safe, I have high medicine so I know where ... but it still counts as an injury! I am totally bleeding here!) ... and then go on a killing frenzy!" Hopefully not in Doctor Who, admittedly. But we've all seen it ;D |
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Post by Curufea on Jan 18, 2010 4:55:11 GMT
But that's not really a problem. The game isn't about thwarting players Where did I say it was? The bit "Won't take a player long to get round that one" and the bit "They're devious little blighters" as quoted in the original post. |
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Post by Matt Johnston on Jan 18, 2010 8:34:04 GMT
We've seen more than one type of Werewolf so far. If you choose the big nasty Lupine wavelength thingy, then I can envisage lots of hijinks.
The "Full Moon" thing is an issue in space. The moon may only be full here once in a while, but what about when you're on the Moon or on or near another moon. What happens in orbit around a planet or on a planet with 16 moons?
There was a future shock where Earth deported all Werewolves...and once they left the Earth they were constantly bathed in moonlight.
Watch "Being Human" on BBC iPlayer (or torrent) to see what it's like for werewolves. It's not all fun and games. Not to make it a focus (because it's a pain when a GM focuses attention on one character - whether they like or dislike them).
• A hunter interested in catching the werewolf. He's got a lot of experience. He intends to cook and eat the werewolf. He has a moonlight gun which turns the werewolf into a rampaging monster.
• Arrival on a planet may be accompanied by six months quarantine - much like importing pets into the UK. Maybe even longer if the werewolf thing is infectious?
Frankly - I'd get rid of the "changes when angry" thing. And, frankly, why do people sit and watch while a werewolf transforms.? Why not fill the bigger with lead when he's writing around changing??? You know - one appearance of a tail and BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM.
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Post by ugavine on Jan 18, 2010 11:29:44 GMT
Another option is to just play them as a shape-changer with the special Alien Trait. Have the Stat changes only moderate, Ingenuity drops to 1, Str increases by 1 but he gains +2 damage claws as a natural weapon. The player can change forms at will.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 18, 2010 12:56:45 GMT
The bit "Won't take a player long to get round that one" and the bit "They're devious little blighters" as quoted in the original post. Observing that players are sneaky, and it generally won't take them long to get around any reasonable limitations placed on a character ('My character is vulnerable to what? Kryptonite? Did I mention my costume is triply reinforced with lead?') if they so choose is to state the obvious, and does not in any way suggest it's a GM's goal to 'thwart' the players. |
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 18, 2010 13:08:30 GMT
We've seen more than one type of Werewolf so far. If you choose the big nasty Lupine wavelength thingy, then I can envisage lots of hijinks. The "Full Moon" thing is an issue in space. The moon may only be full here once in a while, but what about when you're on the Moon or on or near another moon. What happens in orbit around a planet or on a planet with 16 moons? Also ... what happens when there is no moon? Is transformation on a biological cycle which happens - on Earth - to coincide with lunar activity? If so, the werewolf may find itself transforming anyway. And what if that cycle is disrupted by TARDIS travel? Or is it (somehow) that the light from (only) a full moon triggers the transformation? If so, is the light from other moons the same? What about travelling to a system where the sunlight has similar properties? What about a system where there are so many moons, organized in such a way, that you get a full moon every twenty minutes? Or is it psychosomatic? Does the transformation only happen because the werewolf think it should during a full moon? In which case, individual alien moons may or may bit affect the werewolf according to his/her beliefs ('that moon is too red to affect me!') It's a minefield when you start over-analyzing it |
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Post by ugavine on Jan 18, 2010 14:04:11 GMT
And that is the problem I'm having. They work as NPcs when the GM have control of where and when they are encountered, but as a PC it's tricky.
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Post by Null and Void on Jan 18, 2010 14:21:06 GMT
We've seen more than one type of Werewolf so far. If you choose the big nasty Lupine wavelength thingy, then I can envisage lots of hijinks. The "Full Moon" thing is an issue in space. The moon may only be full here once in a while, but what about when you're on the Moon or on or near another moon. What happens in orbit around a planet or on a planet with 16 moons? Also ... what happens when there is no moon? Is transformation on a biological cycle which happens - on Earth - to coincide with lunar activity? If so, the werewolf may find itself transforming anyway. And what if that cycle is disrupted by TARDIS travel? Or is it (somehow) that the light from (only) a full moon triggers the transformation? If so, is the light from other moons the same? What about travelling to a system where the sunlight has similar properties? What about a system where there are so many moons, organized in such a way, that you get a full moon every twenty minutes? Or is it psychosomatic? Does the transformation only happen because the werewolf think it should during a full moon? In which case, individual alien moons may or may bit affect the werewolf according to his/her beliefs ('that moon is too red to affect me!') It's a minefield when you start over-analyzing it Actually, there was a Big Finish Audio that dealt with this. It was called Loup-Garoux and featured the Fifth Doctor and Turlough, and a council of werewolves. The villain of the piece was a near immortal werewolf (Peter Stubbe, for those of you who know your werewolf history), and was eventually defeated by taking him into space. In the story, the werewolves were 'elementally connected' to Earth, and by severing that connection it made them vulnerable. |
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Post by JohnK on Jan 18, 2010 16:19:36 GMT
Hullo, folks, Ugavine, And that is the problem I'm having. They work as NPcs when the GM have control of where and when they are encountered, but as a PC it's tricky. I haven't chimed in or commented on the whole Werewolf debate here, because, to be honest, this is not necessarily the type of character that I would allow in my own game, although as an NPC or a creature to encounter in a scenario, it would work fine. That said, when it comes right down to it, common sense says that the statting up of the werewolf should be handled much as the Time Lord Trait is handled. That is, I would set up the Werewolf as a Trait, providing certain automatic bonuses and deficits, and then applying a cost in Story Points and Character Points. I'd start with basics. Reduce Ingenuity to 1 (they lose most of their rationality when werewolf, and are bestial) Increase Strength and Coordination by +1 each Natural Weapon: Claws do Strength + 2 Increase Speed by +1 or +2 Keen Senses - smell Fear Factor (3) - werewolves are quite terrifying by their nature Hypnosis - control and command of wolves (the nearest I can come to thinking how to handle this element of it all. Fast Healing (Special) - damage is healed at the rate of 1 point per minute, except against the Weakness (see below), which heals at double the normal rate. Depending on the origins of the werewolf, one could have Weakness (Silver weapons or whatever is preferred) Shapeshift (Major) - Restriction: Transformation only occurs during full moon, lasts until sunrise, no roll to resist. Shapeshift (Major) - Restriction: Transformation occurs when the character is angry or enraged or suffering from strong emotions. The transformation may be resisted by a roll of Resolve and Strength (or perhaps Ingenuity) versus a Difficulty of 18. Miscellaneous: Transmission of disease/condition occurs if the target is bit and fails a roll of Resolve and Strength versus a Difficulty of the damage inflicted plus 15. If the roll is failed, transformation occurs for the first time on the next full moon. That would be my initial take on this. Any thoughts on the cost in Character Points and Story Points? |
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Post by allivingstone on Jan 18, 2010 18:28:31 GMT
I'd be reluctant to allow a werewolf as a PC unless I was very, very sure that the player was of type A (as outlined by Kaemaril above). Even then, I would have real doubts. I can't help but think that a character based around the werewolf concept is likely to be game-breaking. Either everything will end up revolving around the werewolf, or the player will find their character doesn't fit with the Doctor Who genre. If they really want to play a werewolf, and that's the only character that will do, I'm sure there is at least one other RPG that caters for this (though I can't think what it's called  ). I think the OP needs to ask the player why a werewolf is what they want to play. What is it about the concept that appeals? Can this appeal be met with a character that doesn't also come with the baggage of being an Unnatural-Born Killer? |
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Post by allivingstone on Jan 18, 2010 18:41:26 GMT
My other thought on the matter is that some kind of environmental trigger is better than "Don't make me angry; you won't like me when I'm angry."
The full moon trigger, for instance, places control primarily with the GM. This limits the opportunities for the werewolf to derail the game for everyone else.
Alternatively, is there any reason why the character should know precisely what triggers it? Maybe the full moon on Earth coincidentally happens at the same time as the real trigger?
It's been mentioned already, but Being Human should be required viewing if a werewolf PC is being considered, though it's worth noting that it is most definitely a post-watershed show (just in case that's a factor for anyone reading this suggestion).
Failing that, the treatment of werewolves in Buffy touches on similar ideas in a less graphic way.
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Post by allivingstone on Jan 18, 2010 19:06:22 GMT
Just had a thought about an environmental trigger that incorporates the (erroneous) 'full moon trigger' theory alongside the ability to travel anywhere throughout time and space. What if werewolf transormation is caused by exposure to 'exotic radiation' from a pulsar-like star? The star's 'lupinic radiation' builds up in a cycle of 28 days or so, and spreads throughout the universe in evenly-spaced waves at the speed of light. The wave of lupinic radiation coincidentally reaches Earth in sync with the lunar cycle. During daylight hours, the solar radiation from the local sun(s) 'jams' the lupinic radiation. After dark, it could be another matter entirely. A character who has only transformed on Earth could be very surprised to start getting 'the twinge' at the dark of the moon on Acheron III. They may even think they are cured when the full moon of Skaro has no effect on them! Or is that just cruel? ;D |
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Post by Null and Void on Jan 18, 2010 19:20:22 GMT
Just had a thought about an environmental trigger that incorporates the (erroneous) 'full moon trigger' theory alongside the ability to travel anywhere throughout time and space. What if werewolf transormation is caused by exposure to 'exotic radiation' from a pulsar-like star? The star's 'lupinic radiation' builds up in a cycle of 28 days or so, and spreads throughout the universe in evenly-spaced waves at the speed of light. The wave of lupinic radiation coincidentally reaches Earth in sync with the lunar cycle. During daylight hours, the solar radiation from the local sun(s) 'jams' the lupinic radiation. After dark, it could be another matter entirely. A character who has only transformed on Earth could be very surprised to start getting 'the twinge' at the dark of the moon on Acheron III. They may even think they are cured when the full moon of Skaro has no effect on them! Or is that just cruel? ;D Another possibility for a 'real trigger' hidden by the light of the Full moon is gravity and tidal forces... Imagine having the person taking off in a rocket and having to deal with sustained Gs, only to have the person sitting next to you transform into a ravening wolf... Heavy Gravity planets could prove interesting as well... perhaps making them more susceptible to transformations. |
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Post by ugavine on Jan 19, 2010 0:16:18 GMT
Lots of great advice here. Thank you. I'll be generating characters tomorrow so I'll let you know what we end up with.
Well I've already turned down at least two suggestions form the player. And he's a bit miffed because the other two players instantly got what they wanted with on being the Time Lord. I'm also running the Sherlock Holmes theme I mentioned in another thread with the Time Lord starting out believing he is Sherlock Holmes. Only this player is the big Sherlock Holmes fan of the group so not getting to play Holmes is another kick in the teeth for him. So I really need to work with him for a decent character to give him something to work with, and something he is happy with. And he is a BIG fan of Werewolves, more than he is of Doctor Who.
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Post by JohnK on Jan 19, 2010 1:26:37 GMT
Hullo, folks,
My earlier post on the werewolf and the possible set-up for the Werewolf Trait has given me an idea for a scenario. Just have to decide whether it will be set in the past or in the future. Hmm...thoughts?
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Post by JohnK on Jan 19, 2010 1:32:51 GMT
Hullo, Al, I'd be reluctant to allow a werewolf as a PC unless I was very, very sure that the player was of type A (as outlined by Kaemaril above). Even then, I would have real doubts. In all honesty, I likely wouldn't permit the player to play a werewolf character in DW: AiTaS, regardless of the situation. The character type just doesn't fit the game, and the reasons you give below are good guidelines for why not as well. I can't help but think that a character based around the werewolf concept is likely to be game-breaking. Either everything will end up revolving around the werewolf, or the player will find their character doesn't fit with the Doctor Who genre. These are the two best reasons not to have a player character werewolf in the game. And even so, I think they work better as NPCs and elements of a plot or two. |
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Post by BadCatMan on Jan 19, 2010 1:46:25 GMT
In the Eberron setting for D&D, they have a race called Shifters, a people descended from true lycanthropes. They have really toned-down abilities, and just resemble really hairy and feral looking people, kind of like Wolverine without the claws and healing, who can enhance or gain some physical aspect for brief periods when required.
Something like this might work as a compromise, less of a werewolf and more of a wolf-man, not as powerful but not as savage and inconvenient.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 19, 2010 1:46:59 GMT
Hullo, folks, My earlier post on the werewolf and the possible set-up for the Werewolf Trait has given me an idea for a scenario. Just have to decide whether it will be set in the past or in the future. Hmm...thoughts? Past. 'A Connecticut Werewolf in King Arthur's Court'. Practically writes itself |
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Post by allivingstone on Jan 19, 2010 2:29:14 GMT
In the Eberron setting for D&D, they have a race called Shifters, a people descended from true lycanthropes. They have really toned-down abilities, and just resemble really hairy and feral looking people, kind of like Wolverine without the claws and healing, who can enhance or gain some physical aspect for brief periods when required. Something like this might work as a compromise, less of a werewolf and more of a wolf-man, not as powerful but not as savage and inconvenient. Nice idea. I think this might well be a reasonable solution. OTOH, is there any specific reason why the Time Lord has to be based on Holmes? I haven't read the other thread, so I don't know if this fits with the OP's intent, but I'd suggest: - Let the player who likes Holmes play a Holmes-like character.
- Have the Time Lord be the Watson figure. Or even an entirely different spin on Holmes. I suspect having two Great Detectives in the group would be less game-wrecking than a full-on werewolf.
This would give both players a character that they want to play. The focus of the characters should end up being different, simply because of where they'll need to spend their points. One is a Great Detective and the other is a Time Lord. By definition, a Time Lord is pretty special in his own right. Does he really need to be Sherlock Holmes as well? EDIT for clarification. |
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Post by JohnK on Jan 19, 2010 2:48:55 GMT
Hullo, Kaemaril, Hullo, folks, My earlier post on the werewolf and the possible set-up for the Werewolf Trait has given me an idea for a scenario. Just have to decide whether it will be set in the past or in the future. Hmm...thoughts? Past. 'A Connecticut Werewolf in King Arthur's Court'. Practically writes itself That's what I was thinking, but of course, that's the obvious way to do the scenario, right? So play the devil's advocate with me here... |
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 19, 2010 3:27:01 GMT
Hullo, Kaemaril, Past. 'A Connecticut Werewolf in King Arthur's Court'. Practically writes itself That's what I was thinking, but of course, that's the obvious way to do the scenario, right? So play the devil's advocate with me here... OK, a different Werewolf in the past ... How about a variant of Elizabeth Bathory? The TARDIS materializes in 16th century Hungary or Romania ... or somewhere suitably 'dark European' ... perhaps Transylvania? The players are mistaken for officials from the nearest city, sent to investigate the complaints of the local minor noble ... someone (or some thing his letter darkly implies) is killing peasants in his villages ... they're dragged into the night, with only their echoing screams - soon cut off - to give any clue as to their fate. Unbeknownst to the local minor noble, the cause of all his problems lurks within his own household. His wife, a noblewoman of impeccable character, is in fact ... a werewolf! Not the kind you'd expect, however. This is a werewolf with brains The local noblewoman was bitten by a dying werewolf, that crashed to Earth. She has only one overriding desire: to propagate the species. The Wolfoids do not reproduce, they create new members of the species by biting other species and making them werewolves. Their saliva contains (technobable technobabble) that overwrites parts of the host's DNA, transforming them into werewolves. The noblewoman, like Bathory, runs a gynaceum where the daughters of local minor nobility learn courtly manners, and she has used these helpless victims as her first conversions. She has built her own pack, and it is the pack that is causing the villagers to disapear. I'm thinking very Midwich cuckoos-y during the day, with the PCs stuck in a room with these little dears as they transform into flesh-rending monsters ... - Can the PCs rescue any remaining villagers from the dungeons? (aka larder) - Can the children be 'cured' of this alien retro-virus? - What of the noblewoman, who is trying to repair the crashlanded ship so she and her wolfpack can return to the home world, little realizing that the ship is in such a bad state of repairs that an attempted launch will lead to an explosion the size of Brussels? - What if the local noblewoman realizes the PCs are onto her, and accuse them of witchcraft ('The stranger had a metallic wand, which he pointed at a dungeon door ... whereupon it made curious sounds I have never before heard, and then the door opened though no mortal hand had unlocked it...') to protect herself and her wolflings? - What if the noblewoman bites one of the PCs? Is 'wolfism' curable? What happens to a Timelord struck low by such a bite? - And how will history explain the strange affair of the castle of satanic wolfcubs? How about that? |
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Post by ugavine on Jan 19, 2010 10:39:42 GMT
Forgot about them, we play Eberron too. Gives me an idea, just give the Werewolf a Barbarian Rage type ability. So he gets a combat bonus once a day for just a few combat rounds. That wouldn't be game-breaking. I love that idea. King Arthur's Court also seems like a good setting to bring in the Celestial Toymaker. Yes. It's the whole basis of the campaign I've written. I still may not go with the werewolf idea, but the Sherlock Holmes idea stays. |
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 19, 2010 12:15:22 GMT
Yes. It's the whole basis of the campaign I've written. I still may not go with the werewolf idea, but the Sherlock Holmes idea stays. Well, if you still wanted a 'Werewolf' story even if the player isn't one ... The Hound of the Baskervilles is not, contrary to the story, a mere dog slathered in phosphorous, but a wolflike creature from beyond the stars. From a dying world, the last of its kind, it was placed in a rocket and shot to Earth by its father, Jor-El ... Er, maybe not that guy Anyway, having crashed on Earth (and with the primitive drive tech the rocket could have been in flight for 5 years or 5000 years...) the baby wolfling had the misfortune to be found not by a kindly farmer called Kent, but by Jack Stapleton! Twenty years of abuse, a general lack of kindness, and virtual slavery by the evil Stapleton has left the poor Wolfling a virtually mindless beast with nothing but rage on its mind ... From there, the Baskerville plot can carry on pretty much as is ... Now the players must save the life of Sir Henry Baskerville, find out who is behind the plot, AND help the wolfling --- in this story not a mistreated animal but a sentient being who is also a victim in all this and in need of help. If you still want a werewolf PC perhaps the wolfling species did not die and the PC is also a wolfling, who recognises the 'Hound' as one of his kind, from long ago/a colony world, etc. Or perhaps the PC thought HE (or SHE) was the 'last of his kind', only to find in the pathetic broken soul of the 'Hound' a kindred spirit ... Obviously, as this is a well-known plot/story, some details will have to be changed to prevent some players from going 'We head off to Stapleton's House' the moment the word 'Baskerville' is mentioned |
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