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Post by kaemaril on Jan 3, 2010 13:15:12 GMT
I'd like to run an entire 'season' at my game club, which will consist of 12 episodes of 3 weeks each (in total, each 'ep' MUST be 9 hours) In order to do that I'm considering making the season design interactive. After the characters have been designed I'm planning on asking the players what sort of monsters they'd like to see, what times and spaces they'd like adventures to be set in, and so on ... Then I'm going to give them the episode titles I've come up with (or nicked off this forum ) and ask them to match the bad guys/time periods etc to episode titles, then ask them in which order they'd like them to go, where particular players would like subplots to go, and so on. The only proviso is that episode 1 will be set in contemporary times in order to get the player characters together. Everything after that, I'd like to see the players come up with, as an exercise in truly collaborative season/campaign design. For reference, here are the episode titles : Episode 1 : Mind the Gap! Contemporary London Subsequent episode titles are: - The Pilgrim's Road
- Shadows of Things That May Be
- Lords of Dust
- I Met A Man Who Wasn't There
- The Gates of Prophecy
- Once Upon A Time
- The Clock Struck Thirteen
- The Holy Fool
- Schrodinger's Box
- The Graveyard of Time
- Endgame.
I'm hoping they'll be evocative enough to get some ideas flowing. Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Criticisms? Possible pitfalls? Bad idea? Good idea?
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Post by The Porter on Jan 3, 2010 14:23:40 GMT
Good idea!
I like the idea of asking for player input for the season. No better way to help ensure that you are creating a game that will be fun for your players than to ask them what they think is fun!
My only possible concern might be the second half of your plan. By presenting them with pregen episode titles, you run the risk of limiting possibilities. That said, often restrictions can help fuel creativity and so it may work great.
I probably wouldn't ask them for the order of episodes, nor the details of subplots, as I would want these to arise from play.
Best of luck, and please let us know how the initial meeting with your players go, along with updates throughout the season.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 3, 2010 14:37:07 GMT
My only possible concern might be the second half of your plan. By presenting them with pregen episode titles, you run the risk of limiting possibilities. That said, often restrictions can help fuel creativity and so it may work great. I think it would make for some interesting contrasts and twists, and maybe give me some ideas to work with you'd not automatically think of before. For example, one of the episode titles I've put down is 'The Pilgrim's Road', which maybe makes you think medieval times, the Crusades, perhaps Chaucer ... but what if the players decide they want that particular episode to involve killer robots in the 51st century? What kind of pilgrim are you going to see in the 51st century? Where is the road? What is the road? Oh, I won't give (or ask) for too much detail on subplots ... again, it's to encourage some out of the box thinking, really. And also it gives me a cheap excuse to ask for some subplots and plot details, as I'm usually crap at thinking them up. Also, it can be used for the experience process. 'What's that? You want some opportunities to improve your combat skills? OK, I can do that ... do you want that to be a gradual process or do you want to be involved in a couple of colossal battles? Oh, the latter? We can do that ... we've already got some killer robots, some Daleks, some pan-dimensional shades of purple tinged with aqua ... where do you envisage fitting that in? Oh, a big battle with the Daleks? I think I can fit something in ... No, that's not me laughing evilly, I just have a slight throat infection.' It's a cheaty way for me to get the players to come up with the plots for me, basically ;D
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Post by The Porter on Jan 3, 2010 14:51:31 GMT
For example, one of the episode titles I've put down is 'The Pilgrim's Road', which maybe makes you think medieval times, the Crusades, perhaps Chaucer ... but what if the players decide they want that particular episode to involve killer robots in the 51st century? What kind of pilgrim are you going to see in the 51st century? Where is the road? What is the road? Yep, fuelling some creativity, I'm convinced. Nothing "cheaty" about it. Sounds like you are a good, responsible gamemaster who is tailoring their game to meet the player's expectations so that everyone can have fun. I wish I could join your group!
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Jan 3, 2010 17:08:29 GMT
Of course there's a danger of getting someone like me at the table who'll give you a twenty-word pitch for every title on the list within an hour of seeing it.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 3, 2010 17:37:45 GMT
Of course there's a danger of getting someone like me at the table who'll give you a twenty-word pitch for every title on the list within an hour of seeing it. That's why I'll have a cricket bat handy, just in case
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Jan 3, 2010 18:31:39 GMT
That's why I'll have a cricket bat handy, just in case It's a fair cop, guv'nor.
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Post by Curufea on Jan 3, 2010 20:40:54 GMT
Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Criticisms? Possible pitfalls? Bad idea? Good idea? Sounds like a great idea to me. It's also how campaigns (or series) are designed in Prime Time Adventures. The players and the GM get together, work out character, genre, series length - and then work out which episodes should feature which player more prominantly than the others. I recommend looking at it for any TV-based RPG
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 3, 2010 22:18:56 GMT
Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Criticisms? Possible pitfalls? Bad idea? Good idea? Sounds like a great idea to me. It's also how campaigns (or series) are designed in Prime Time Adventures. The players and the GM get together, work out character, genre, series length - and then work out which episodes should feature which player more prominantly than the others. I recommend looking at it for any TV-based RPG Thanks. I guess now I need to formulate some sort of questionnaire or brief list of questions to start the ball rolling. Well ... I suppose I could start 'What sort of baddies do you want to fight and when do you want to do it?' but really that's a bit of a blunt approach ... even for me
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Post by Curufea on Jan 3, 2010 22:54:55 GMT
I'd go with subgenres - there's a good questionaire for Hero System campaigns as well which cover things like- How important should the PCs be in the game (1= insignifcant to 5= PCs are actively responsible for all major events) How episodic versus how serial (1= each session is completely contained to 5 = every session is linked) How much comedy? etc. I used a variant of this for my TBA Fantasy Hero campaign and had players vote on what they wanted. You can find it here- www.curufea.com/hero/doku.php/tba:votingThe way the spotlighting mechanic works in Prime Time Adventures is that each player has a "3", some "2"s and the rest of "1"s for significance of their character in the series. 3 is a spotlight, usually a character origin, or major character development. 2 is main character, 1 is supporting. It affects their use of any kind of skill or task resolution for that episode/session based on their significance. This could be used to modify Story Points in DWAITAS. Characters receive more in 3, less in 2 and very few in 1. The PTA series creation sheet can be found here- www.dog-eared-designs.com/series_sheet.pdfJust had another thought - alternately the significance number could apply to how valuable a storypoint is. ie if a character is spotlighted this session, each storypoint token is worth 3. If a main then 1:2, supporting is 1:1 ratio.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 3, 2010 23:18:11 GMT
I'd go with subgenres - there's a good questionaire for Hero System campaigns as well which cover things like- How important should the PCs be in the game (1= insignifcant to 5= PCs are actively responsible for all major events) How episodic versus how serial (1= each session is completely contained to 5 = every session is linked) How much comedy? etc. I used a variant of this for my TBA Fantasy Hero campaign and had players vote on what they wanted. You can find it here- www.curufea.com/hero/doku.php/tba:votingThe way the spotlighting mechanic works in Prime Time Adventures is that each player has a "3", some "2"s and the rest of "1"s for significance of their character in the series. 3 is a spotlight, usually a character origin, or major character development. 2 is main character, 1 is supporting. It affects their use of any kind of skill or task resolution for that episode/session based on their significance. This could be used to modify Story Points in DWAITAS. Characters receive more in 3, less in 2 and very few in 1. The PTA series creation sheet can be found here- www.dog-eared-designs.com/series_sheet.pdfJust had another thought - alternately the significance number could apply to how valuable a storypoint is. ie if a character is spotlighted this session, each storypoint token is worth 3. If a main then 1:2, supporting is 1:1 ratio. Interesting reading, thanks. Though I'm not keen on that ratio idea for storypoints. It could lead to some serious problems.
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Post by Curufea on Jan 3, 2010 23:50:03 GMT
Yeah - I'm not sure it works. Story Points are already balanced against the otherwise usefulness of a character with its traits.
By which I mean - you either have set traits that can be used when applicable as often as you like, or you have storypoints that can be used for anything, but are ablative.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 6, 2010 23:55:23 GMT
OK, I've been having a bit of a think. I didn't want anything too long, so here are the questions I plan on putting to prospective players regarding their characters, hopefully to get some background/subplot ideas. I'm still thinking on how to elicit some plot/campaign ideas Character Qs: Does your character have any relatives? If yes, what are their names and relationship to you. If no, what happened? What does your character do for a living? What does your character do in his spare time/to relax? Where does your character live? Briefly describe three people that your character gets on well with/is friends with/generally have a positive outlook toward your character. What are their names? What do they look like? What do they do? What are they to you? Briefly describe three people that your character does NOT get on well with/really dislikes/generally have a negative toward your character. What are their names? What do they look like? What do they do? What are they to you? Briefly describe three people that your character has a passing acquaintance with but generally neither likes or dislikes. What are their names? What do they look like? What do they do? What are they to you? Name one or more of your character's heroes or people he/she looks up to, either living or dead. If your character could be anybody else, living or dead, who would he or she have been? If your character believed in past lives, what historical period would he or she have lived in? If your character won an all-expenses paid trip to anywhere in the world, where would he or she go? What one thing would your character change about him/herself? What one thing about your character is he or she most proud of? What one thing does your character most regret? In a phrase of five words or less, sum up your character. Thoughts? Suggestions? Criticisms?
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Post by Curufea on Jan 7, 2010 8:20:36 GMT
My thoughts are, as I've done this kind of thing before - you can judge commitment to a campaign by questionaire.
I've noticed that the players that put in the least amount of effort pre-game, are generally just the same throughout the campaign as well.
So, keep an eye on those who can't be bothered thinking about their characters, they will probably be trouble later.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 7, 2010 12:31:07 GMT
So, keep an eye on those who can't be bothered thinking about their characters, they will probably be trouble later. Ah yes. Classic 'I'm an orphan who keeps to himself' syndrome ...
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 7, 2010 18:50:47 GMT
What questions would need for a Time Lord character?
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 7, 2010 23:20:18 GMT
What questions would need for a Time Lord character? I'm using the same questionnaire, as the time lord character doesn't (at the start of the game) realize he's a time lord
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 7, 2010 23:38:19 GMT
Heh, handy But what questions could be posed to a Time Lord character who knew they were one?
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 7, 2010 23:49:10 GMT
Heh, handy But what questions could be posed to a Time Lord character who knew they were one? Hmm. Tough. Well, some of the questions for non-TLs also apply, but how about ... Where/when have you travelled? Where/when would you like to travel? Where/when is your favourite place? WHY do you travel? IF the time war is in your campaign: - what did you do during the time war? - how did you escape the time war? - what contribution to the war are you most proud of? - what didn't go so well? - how do you feel about the time lords? Why do you feel the need for human (or other) companions on your travels? How old is your character AND how old does he look? It's a start ...
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PathfinderAP
2nd Incarnation
Reason for Everything, Always a Way
Posts: 28
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Post by PathfinderAP on Jan 14, 2010 15:20:52 GMT
Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Criticisms? Possible pitfalls? Bad idea? Good idea? That could work well for the first Ep, but after that, its a bad idea, how can you spring anything on them if they already know whats coming?, its part of the tension to not know, hinting is okay but letting them know?, bad idea
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 14, 2010 16:37:13 GMT
Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Criticisms? Possible pitfalls? Bad idea? Good idea? That could work well for the first Ep, but after that, its a bad idea, how can you spring anything on them if they already know whats coming?, its part of the tension to not know, hinting is okay but letting them know?, bad idea I knew the 'basic plot' of every single New Who episode in seasons 1-4 before they aired. I'm talking broad strokes : Daleks in 1930s New York. Donna Noble gets to see what happens if she never met the Doctor. Judoon Platoon upon the Moon. Scary monsters in a decrepit house you must never take your eyes off. Robots in old France haunting a little girl with an unexpected guardian angel. Fiery aliens in ancient Pompeii. The Doctor becomes human. The Doctor meets an old foe at the end of time. The return of the Cybermen in a world with blimps. The Doctor encounters zombies in World War 2. The Doctor and Charles Dickens team up - together, they fight crime^H^H^H^H^Hghosts. That's roughly the level of plot they'll get in advance. They'll hopefully create their own 'next week on Doctor Who' so to speak - but that's pretty much it. And since this is a club game they're used to knowing a bit of plot beforehand as all the GMs have to 'pitch' their games anyway.
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Jan 14, 2010 20:23:51 GMT
I really don't look for tension in my games, I get enough of that dating...
What gets used and what doesn't is up to the GM, and what the players suggest in the open and in secret is up to them. It's entirely possible for a player who wouldn't be interested to know nothing that's coming up except the titles.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 15, 2010 1:00:24 GMT
Assuming my game goes ahead, I'm trying to figure out how to get some interaction going with the eps. I think what I'll do: Each episode title will have it's own sheet of paper, with the following columns: WHO? WHAT? WHERE? WHEN? WHY? And I'll ask each player to put a couple of words or a small sentence in each column. When that's done hopefully we'll have 3-5 ideas in each column, and we can see which combination(s) sound the most interesting. Or insane Once that's done we'll need to come up with some possible 'spots'/subplots, and finalize episode broadcast order. Still thinking about that ... Thoughts? Suggestions? Empty hollow laughter of scorn? Offers of money?
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Post by JohnK on Jan 15, 2010 15:32:50 GMT
Hullo, Allen, I really don't look for tension in my games, I get enough of that dating... What gets used and what doesn't is up to the GM, and what the players suggest in the open and in secret is up to them. It's entirely possible for a player who wouldn't be interested to know nothing that's coming up except the titles. While I agree with your sentiment here, I have to say that as a player, I would want to be surprised by the appearance of the Daleks in a scenario or some such. It's fine to make the game interactive with the players, but some of the suspense and the unknown has to be maintained somewhat, while still keeping it fun for the players.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 15, 2010 21:49:41 GMT
Hullo, Allen, I really don't look for tension in my games, I get enough of that dating... What gets used and what doesn't is up to the GM, and what the players suggest in the open and in secret is up to them. It's entirely possible for a player who wouldn't be interested to know nothing that's coming up except the titles. While I agree with your sentiment here, I have to say that as a player, I would want to be surprised by the appearance of the Daleks in a scenario or some such. It's fine to make the game interactive with the players, but some of the suspense and the unknown has to be maintained somewhat, while still keeping it fun for the players. Obviously different people have different 'spoiler levels'. I mean, if knowing who the badguy is going to be going in were a problem for everyone then episodes like Attack of the Cybermen, Resurrection of the Daleks, Dalek, Daleks in Manhattan, Evolution of the Daleks, The Sontaran Stratagem etc would have had remarkably low viewing figures Hell, with the 'coming next week' segment you usually get on New Who, practically everyone knows something of what's going to happen next week without ruining the suspense and the unknown. I don't have a huge problem with some GM going 'Hey, you guys, how about Daleks in Ancient Greece next week?' I don't see that being much of a suspense killer
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Jan 16, 2010 1:01:56 GMT
Hullo, Allen, While I agree with your sentiment here, I have to say that as a player, I would want to be surprised by the appearance of the Daleks in a scenario or some such. It's fine to make the game interactive with the players, but some of the suspense and the unknown has to be maintained somewhat, while still keeping it fun for the players. Speaking from experience, I had Player A in my Buffy game counting as Co-GM in terms of seasonal planning for the group as a whole, Players B through E contributing occasional story hooks, mostly relating to their own characters, and Player F saying "don't spoil me!" and keeping herself out of the loop deliberately, all at the same table.
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Post by Curufea on Jan 16, 2010 9:24:34 GMT
I find the teasers at the end of the new series episodes to be really annoying. I hate how much they spoil the next episode. They're worse that movie trailers.
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Post by JohnK on Jan 16, 2010 15:47:58 GMT
Hullo, Kaemaril, Hullo, Allen, While I agree with your sentiment here, I have to say that as a player, I would want to be surprised by the appearance of the Daleks in a scenario or some such. It's fine to make the game interactive with the players, but some of the suspense and the unknown has to be maintained somewhat, while still keeping it fun for the players. Obviously different people have different 'spoiler levels'. I mean, if knowing who the badguy is going to be going in were a problem for everyone then episodes like Attack of the Cybermen, Resurrection of the Daleks, Dalek, Daleks in Manhattan, Evolution of the Daleks, The Sontaran Stratagem etc would have had remarkably low viewing figures Hell, with the 'coming next week' segment you usually get on New Who, practically everyone knows something of what's going to happen next week without ruining the suspense and the unknown. I don't have a huge problem with some GM going 'Hey, you guys, how about Daleks in Ancient Greece next week?' I don't see that being much of a suspense killer I think this is a case of mileage varying and all that. While the tv series doesn't allow for this, what with the titles of episodes and stories and all and the teasers for next week and all, in the roleplaying game context, I think players want to have the surprise of what's happening in the next session and all. Just my take on things.
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Post by JohnK on Jan 16, 2010 16:00:49 GMT
Hullo, Craig, Speaking from experience, I had Player A in my Buffy game counting as Co-GM in terms of seasonal planning for the group as a whole, Players B through E contributing occasional story hooks, mostly relating to their own characters, and Player F saying "don't spoil me!" and keeping herself out of the loop deliberately, all at the same table. Yep, just comes down to individual player tastes and the like. Which is a good thing, imo.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 16, 2010 16:19:17 GMT
Hullo, Kaemaril, Obviously different people have different 'spoiler levels'. I mean, if knowing who the badguy is going to be going in were a problem for everyone then episodes like Attack of the Cybermen, Resurrection of the Daleks, Dalek, Daleks in Manhattan, Evolution of the Daleks, The Sontaran Stratagem etc would have had remarkably low viewing figures Hell, with the 'coming next week' segment you usually get on New Who, practically everyone knows something of what's going to happen next week without ruining the suspense and the unknown. I don't have a huge problem with some GM going 'Hey, you guys, how about Daleks in Ancient Greece next week?' I don't see that being much of a suspense killer I think this is a case of mileage varying and all that. While the tv series doesn't allow for this, what with the titles of episodes and stories and all and the teasers for next week and all, in the roleplaying game context, I think players want to have the surprise of what's happening in the next session and all. Just my take on things. I agree, but would add that wise man said, "The journey may lead to surprises, even when the path is known to you." Or, if he didn't, he should have. I'm paying him enough
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