The Ancient One & Haemovores

[olegrand]

Hello everyone

I'm currently toying with a story idea involving the Haemovores and a question keeps nagging me. Is the Ancient One aka Ingiger the only member of his "species" to have this fishy, "Deep One" look or could we assume that other, very old and powerful Haemovores look like this as well ?

[Catsmate]

Certainly the cover of Gods and Monsters would suggest all the old Haemovores has that sort of look.

[olegrand]

Well I'm not sure. The Haemovores on the "Gods & Monsters" cover do display the "long-drowned, lumpy-faced zombie" look but the Ancient One does display far more "fishy" facial features - that's what I was specificaly referring to.

Old Haemovores:



Ancient One:

[da professor]

I would imagine the Gods and Monsters cover look is a stage on the way to the Ancient One look. As far as I'm aware there is no canon answer either way, so if you want to go that way, go ahead. It's what I would do.

[olegrand]

Jul 6, 2018 11:26:37 GMT da professor said:

I would imagine the Gods and Monsters cover look is a stage on the way to the Ancient One look. As far as I'm aware there is no canon answer either way, so if you want to go that way, go ahead. It's what I would do.

Mmmh I suspected that... the reason of my rather ultra-specific query is that I'm working on a story featuring the great William Blake and I'd like to make a connection between the Haemovores and his well-known "Ghost of a Flea" painting:




But since involving the Ancient One would be slightly over-complicated in terms of temporal continuity, I'd prefer to make Blake's "Flea" another Haemovore...

Sure I know that the face could also be interpreted as that of a Silurian, a Sea Devil or even a Terileptil but there are other features which, in my opinion, do plead in favor of the Haemovore connection : the claws, the tongue, the bowl of blood etc.

[misterharry]

I've always thought that the Haemovores' appearance mutates to become more and more like the Ancient One the longer they live. So the Ghost of a Flea could represent a Haemovore at an earlier stage of its life, as dreamed of by Blake - after all, who knows where Blake's dreams came from?

[olegrand]

Jul 6, 2018 20:37:08 GMT misterharry said:

So the Ghost of a Flea could represent a Haemovore at an earlier stage of its life, as dreamed of by Blake - after all, who knows where Blake's dreams came from?

Hehe, we're obviously on the same psychic wavelength, here

So far, my (very rough) plot outline would start like this:

In 1912, Blake's Ghost of a Flea is exhibited for the first time at the Tate Gallery; while visiting an Edwardian friend in 1912 (he also happens to be a psychic detective and a guest PC), the Time Lady goes to this exhibition and senses a powerful psychic echo / aura / resonance emanating from the painting, urging her and her friend to investigate the work of art by going back in time to meet William Blake in 1820 or so.

They meet Blake (portraying him will be a delightful challenge) and soon realize that he is getting his visions (well, at least this one) from some (possibly alternate) far future where the Haemovores have invaded our world and that this particular Haemovore (let's call him "Flea") is trying to open some kind of psychic / temporal portal using Blake as a conduit in order to "feast on the past" or something like this.

So, as you see: still a lot of plot holes, loose ends etc. but I think it's an interesting start (and I've been dying to do a William Blake episode for years).

[senko]

I'm 90% sure (don't have access to the book right now) that the Haemovores in curse of Fenric are mentioned to become less human and more fishy the older they are.

[olegrand]

(Continuing my ramblings about my plot-to-be)

So we'd have this old and powerful Haemovore (actually, he's the leader of a whole bunch of them) who are trying to break away from the future because THEIR present has been made more and more uncertain following the demise of Fenric, all those time storms and various continuum-tampering events which have cropped up in the last few seasons of my campaign - in a nutshell, "the future" is not only relative, it has become multiple, with a potentially infinite number of continuums trying to emerge as "the main one" - but I digress). In (another) nutshell, my Haemovores must travel en masse from their unspecified, doomed future to the time of William Blake, using him as a psychic conduit / point of entry - yes, William Blake would be a highly psychic / time sensitive individual, almost, well, "a Visionary"... and the Haemovore leader would have succeeded in "harpooning" his psyche through time (remember that the Haemovores are supposed to be highly empathetic and that Blake was plagued by all sorts of visions, dreams etc.)

So Blake created the painting as a "psychic focus" to ease the opening of the time-portal (or whatever) - but he is absolutely unaware of this purpose. As far as he is concerned, he has simply created artwork from a particularly strong visionary episode etc.

As far as the player-characters would be concerned, their goal would be to prevent the Haemovore migration to the 1820s (an event which would surely compromise history as we know it)... but without destroying the blasted painting (which would also alter history in a very grievous manner - and perhaps drive Blake over the edge of his latent insanity).

(This is where I stand now - more demented ramblings coming soon - in the meantime, don't hesitate to throw ideas, comments & questions)

[misterharry]

I wonder whether Blake's visions of angels could also be brought to play here, as entities trying to thwart the Haemovores or prevent their timeline? Not that the angels are necessarily the "good" to the Haemovores' "evil". But Blake and the London of the early 19th Century could find themselves in the middle of a War in Heaven for the future of mankind.

[imajica]

Jul 8, 2018 19:42:00 GMT misterharry said:

I wonder whether Blake's visions of angels could also be brought to play here, as entities trying to thwart the Haemovores or prevent their timeline? Not that the angels are necessarily the "good" to the Haemovores' "evil". But Blake and the London of the early 19th Century could find themselves in the middle of a War in Heaven for the future of mankind.

Well, I'd pay to see that movie.

[olegrand]

Jul 8, 2018 19:42:00 GMT misterharry said:

I wonder whether Blake's visions of angels could also be brought to play here, as entities trying to thwart the Haemovores or prevent their timeline? Not that the angels are necessarily the "good" to the Haemovores' "evil". But Blake and the London of the early 19th Century could find themselves in the middle of a War in Heaven for the future of mankind.

First of all: thanks a lot for your comments & ideas!

This certainly IS a very interesting conjecture but I see two obstacles here (that being said, nobody said obstacles could not be overcome! :

1. Most of Blake's angel-themed art was done for Milton's "Paradise Lost", a dozen years or so before he did the "visionary heads" series from which "Flea" was taken - IIRC, the "Paradise Lost" stuff were done before 1810, while Flea and the other "visionary heads" date from 1818-1820 - but if we follow the idea of Blake being some kind of psychic visionary, his angelic pictures could indeed be the reflection / artistic rendition of "something else"

2. Who or what would those angels represent/depict? I think the obvious answer (Weeping Angels) would be a bit too, well, obvious - and besides the Weepers follow a more traditional, "gothic-quaint" aesthetic, far more "common" in appearance (artistically speaking) than the otherworldly, often unique visions of Blake

And of course, there are also his famous "Red Dragon" pîctures which were done at the same period as the Milton stuff (before 1810 unless I'm mistaken). So keeping in mind this artistic timeline, I'd be tempted to use the following rationale:

William Blake has always had "visionary powers" - psychic, trans-temporal etc. But given his faith, education and individual psychology, he always "translated" his glimpses of other times and places as mystic visions, further refined and redefined through the lens of artistic inspiration. He was, if you will, unaware of the true scope of his visionary insights.

But as a very powerful visionary, he emitted some kind of "vibe" across time, space and humanity's collective mindscape - a vibe which was eventually picked up by the highly empathetic Haemovores trying to leave their doomed future. Sensing that "the stranger on the other side" (ie Blake circa 1818) could act as the necessary "conduit" or "interface" for their massive migration, they begin feeding the psychic connections with all sorts of images, affecting / influencing his "Visionary Heads" series, with the buildup of this psychic rapport / link culminating in the "Ghost of a Flea" image - not a visual metaphor but a faithful rendition of the chief Haemovore's appearance. The underlying idea here is that the "temporal transit" or whatever could begin once the creature's image is deeply anchored in Blake's mind and even more so in his reality - through the execution of the painting itself - incidentally, unless I'm mistaken, "Flea" was the only image from the "visionary heads" series to evolve into a fully-fledged, stand-alone painting...

I think I might delve a bit further into the other "Visionary Heads" to see if other interesting connections could be made...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visionary_Heads

Thanks a lot - et à bientôt !

[misterharry]

Jul 9, 2018 9:30:13 GMT olegrand said:

1. Most of Blake's angel-themed art was done for Milton's "Paradise Lost", a dozen years or so before he did the "visionary heads" series from which "Flea" was taken - IIRC, the "Paradise Lost" stuff were done before 1810, while Flea and the other "visionary heads" date from 1818-1820 - but if we follow the idea of Blake being some kind of psychic visionary, his angelic pictures could indeed be the reflection / artistic rendition of "something else"

Yeah, I was playing fast and loose with Blake's timeline, which Doctor Who often does but which may be unsatisfying for history-aware players. I'm sure there are some timey-wimey explanations which could be brought to bear, but it feels like trying to shoehorn the concept in when it doesn't quite fit.

2. Who or what would those angels represent/depict? I think the obvious answer (Weeping Angels) would be a bit too, well, obvious - and besides the Weepers follow a more traditional, "gothic-quaint" aesthetic, far more "common" in appearance (artistically speaking) than the otherworldly, often unique visions of Blake

To be honest, I wasn't thinking of the Weeping Angels and I agree that they wouldn't really match Blake's visions. I hadn't really given any thought as to exactly who the Haemovores' opponents might be. Time Lords trying to cleanse a dead-end timeline maybe? Hmmm, it's not really their style. Anyway, it's a little academic.

[olegrand]

Jul 10, 2018 20:01:41 GMT misterharry said:

To be honest, I wasn't thinking of the Weeping Angels and I agree that they wouldn't really match Blake's visions. I hadn't really given any thought as to exactly who the Haemovores' opponents might be. Time Lords trying to cleanse a dead-end timeline maybe? Hmmm, it's not really their style. Anyway, it's a little academic.

Yes - but such academic discussions are a delightful aspect of this forum (and of DW GM-ing in general)! Thanks a lot for your suggestions and input. The "dead-end timeline" concept fits perfectly with my "Haemovore transit" idea... and I've realized that Blake's previous visions of a "War in Heaven" could simply be distorted echoes of the TIME WAR itself! He could perceive massive psychic echoes of the event and then his brain would translate them in visual terms fitting with his own intellectual paradigm i.e. that of a visionary christian mystic (and a visionary artist) of the early 19th century. This also suggests that Blake's artistic vision would be his own - rather than a mere rendition of real otherworldly scenes etc.: not only does this prevent us from having to connect each one of Blake's picture to an actual DW correspondence, but it also seems much more "respectful" to the creativity of the man himself (his artistic vision was his own and was a reflect of his immense talent and creativity). In other words, someone without Blake's artistic genius who'd have received the same trans-temporal echoes would have become quite mad without creating anything artistic from these repeated experiences...

This also means that the "Ghost of a Flea" would be a somewhat unique case, an exception: a picture with a more direct, closer resemblance to its actual subject, reflecting the fact that, in this particular case, there was a far more direct, focused and deliberate psychic link at work. It all fits perfectly!

And then we should also delve into this particular "Visionary Head":



Whereas most of Blake's "visionary heads" depict historical or well-known legendary characters from various periods (with the exception, again, of "Flea"), the one above is supposed to be the mysterious "man who gave Mr Blake instructions in painting"... or, depending on interpretations, a "visionary self-portrait" of the artist himself (but it doesn't really look like him, does it?). I cannot fail to notice the fact that this mysterious human (humanoid?) seems to have an apparent brain showing on his forehead - yes, it could simply be his hair but then again it does look like a brain of some sort. This is too good not to be integrated somehow into the whole scheme... A Time Lord? A powerful psychic? A human-looking "psychic mask" for the chief Haemovore?

See you soon for some more speculations / ramblings!

[olegrand]

The story so far...

In a dead-end future, one of the many alternate timelines created by the repercussions of the Time War, the Haemovores have annihilated humanity and are now facing a historical cul-de-sac... unless they manage to transmigrate en masse, across time, to a former time period, full of humans to be devoured, dominated etc. Sure, this project could create a massive paradox but the Haemovores don't care: they are motivated by two primal urges - survival and their killing instinct. Their elder/leader, a being with a high psychic sensitivty, manages to search through time and space for a suitable "psychic anchor" that would allow them to create an entry point in the past. The creature's psychic probing soon caught up echoes emanating from one of humanity's most powerful visionaries - the artist William Blake (who is unaware of the true scope of his visionary mind). Blake had already received many echoes from the "War in Heaven" (the Time War), translating them into his work (pictures of warring angels, terrifying demons, godlike entities etc.) - so it was quite easy for the Haemovore Elder (let's call him that) to create a lasting connection with Blake's mind across the gulfs ot Time...

In order not to frighten Blake away, the Haemovore Elder used a psychic disguise, covering his true image behind the mask of a mysterious 'eidolon-like' character, transmitting mysterious insights on Blake etc. in order to strengthen the psycho-temporal portal (see below) and allow the transmigration:



But Blake's vision was so acute that he actually glimpsed echoes of the Elder's true image, which he translated as his "Flea" drawings and paintings, without realising their true meaning (ie without sensing that this fiendish, blood-drinking creature was the same being as the apparently benevolent, mentor-like Elder).

The bridge / portal / connection is now ready to operate - the only factor causing delay being the chaotic state of Blake's mind, in perpetual turmoil because of his visions.

I must now answer two crucial questions:


How exactly do the Haemovores intend to travel en masse from their doomed future to Blake's 1820 London?

Well, since Haemovores do NOT have the ability to travel through time by themselves, the process should obviously involve one of Fenric's mysterious "time storms". In my campaign, Fenric has been permanently defeated - but this should not prevent the Haemovores from harnessing the power of the time storm for their own ends, linking it with a suitable psychic anchor (Blake) - and in this cas, the "time storm" can only increase the psychic turmoil felt by Blake as the process gets nearer to its completion - a literal mindstorm!

Since the whole story plays on a psychic rather than technological McGuffin, the method used by the Elder Haemovore to "harness the storm" should probably be psychic too: most probably, the concerted psyches of all the Haemovores, under the guidance of the Elder, has allowed such a spectacular feat.

How do the Haemovores intend to remedy the aforementioned "turmoil problem" in order to stabilize the anchor / entry point and get on with their massive transmigration?


This is an interesting plot twist - and one that will create opponents / dangers for the PCs to uncover and overcome before any form of massive Haemovore transmigration could take place - hopefully, the best conclusion would be to prevent this completely - but in this case, we run the risk of having an easy victory - without much direct struggle. But if the Haemovores were somehow able to send an advance scouting party or perhaps to wake some 1820 Haemovores (ah, that's an idea, I think) and use them to "coach & coax" Blake and ensure that things go as smoothly as possible on this side of the time passage, the PCs arriving in 1820 would have already active enemies to fight and defeat - like, say, two or three 1820 Haemovores contacted by the Elder to ensure "the fate of their race" etc.

(That's where I stand now)

[misterharry]

This is developing in a very interesting way - you have the makings of a superlative adventure!

Jul 11, 2018 7:34:54 GMT olegrand said:

And then we should also delve into this particular "Visionary Head":



Whereas most of Blake's "visionary heads" depict historical or well-known legendary characters from various periods (with the exception, again, of "Flea"), the one above is supposed to be the mysterious "man who gave Mr Blake instructions in painting"... or, depending on interpretations, a "visionary self-portrait" of the artist himself (but it doesn't really look like him, does it?). I cannot fail to notice the fact that this mysterious human (humanoid?) seems to have an apparent brain showing on his forehead - yes, it could simply be his hair but then again it does look like a brain of some sort. This is too good not to be integrated somehow into the whole scheme... A Time Lord? A powerful psychic? A human-looking "psychic mask" for the chief Haemovore?

It certainly has an unusual look. Not sure whether it's hair or brain or something entirely different, but it certainly leaves the figure's identity open to speculation.

[senko]

Well there was the monster island book "eye of the giant?" where an alien drug turned a girl into an actual angel with vast power who leaves with her mutated step mother to try and cure her. That could be who Blake is dreaming of?

[imajica]

Jul 11, 2018 15:37:19 GMT misterharry said:

This is developing in a very interesting way - you have the makings of a superlative adventure!

Jul 11, 2018 7:34:54 GMT olegrand said:

And then we should also delve into this particular "Visionary Head":



Whereas most of Blake's "visionary heads" depict historical or well-known legendary characters from various periods (with the exception, again, of "Flea"), the one above is supposed to be the mysterious "man who gave Mr Blake instructions in painting"... or, depending on interpretations, a "visionary self-portrait" of the artist himself (but it doesn't really look like him, does it?). I cannot fail to notice the fact that this mysterious human (humanoid?) seems to have an apparent brain showing on his forehead - yes, it could simply be his hair but then again it does look like a brain of some sort. This is too good not to be integrated somehow into the whole scheme... A Time Lord? A powerful psychic? A human-looking "psychic mask" for the chief Haemovore?

It certainly has an unusual look. Not sure whether it's hair or brain or something entirely different, but it certainly leaves the figure's identity open to speculation.

Been watching selected episodes with the kids recently and this head reminds me a lot of the direct brain interface from Satellite 5. One click of the fingers, brain exposed...