Rassilon
Administrator
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Post by Rassilon on Nov 2, 2014 16:41:30 GMT
Is this a good idea?
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Post by Escher on Nov 2, 2014 16:43:32 GMT
Controversial, no doubt, but I'm open to a new direction.
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stahlman
3rd Incarnation
Doctor, stop wasting my time, will you?
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Post by stahlman on Nov 2, 2014 17:24:00 GMT
I was hoping for The Rani
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
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Post by misterharry on Nov 2, 2014 17:37:59 GMT
It wasn't something I was particularly looking for before this series. But with Michelle Gomez in the role, a definite yes from me.
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Post by Stormcrow on Nov 2, 2014 17:56:40 GMT
No. It's just another way for Moffat to inflict his fan fiction on us, a la River Song and "The Curse of Fatal Death."
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Catsmate
13th Incarnation
It's complicated....
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Post by Catsmate on Nov 2, 2014 18:02:59 GMT
I was hoping for The Rani It didn't seem her style. A dark Romana I could have gone with. Anyway, why not?
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Post by cigarman on Nov 2, 2014 18:28:43 GMT
No. It's just another way for Moffat to inflict his fan fiction on us, a la River Song and "The Curse of Fatal Death." I agree 100%! Let The Master have HIS noble death. The Mistress is BS. Should have been The Rani or Romana. I'm starting to despise Moffat.
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Post by Stormcrow on Nov 2, 2014 20:43:30 GMT
By the way, here's another instance of Moffat lying to try to surprise us. Back in August he said the Master wasn't coming back. Yawn.
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Catsmate
13th Incarnation
It's complicated....
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Post by Catsmate on Nov 2, 2014 21:38:22 GMT
Meh, Gomez wtill played the Master better than Simm.
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Post by Hedgewick on Nov 3, 2014 0:43:16 GMT
I've resigned myself to this one. Why not? He's been a cat person. He's been a snake. He was very nearly a robot. The Master will adopt any form in order to survive. So... Why not? Let's enjoy Gomez's performance.
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Post by Stormcrow on Nov 3, 2014 14:12:52 GMT
I've resigned myself to this one. Why not? He's been a cat person. He's been a snake. He was very nearly a robot. The Master will adopt any form in order to survive. So... Why not? Why? That is, why would taking a female form have anything to do with him surviving? If there's a good reason revealed next episode, fine. If not, it's just You-know-who twerking his ego.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,244
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Nov 3, 2014 14:38:32 GMT
I don't think there will be any explanation in the next episode, nor do I think it particularly needs one. We've known since The Doctor's Wife that Time Lords can switch genders. It's just the first time we, the viewers, have actually seen direct evidence. For me, it's all good.
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Post by Stormcrow on Nov 3, 2014 15:54:49 GMT
When it leads to the Master planting a huge kiss on the Doctor's cringing face? Ew.
It borders on slash fiction.
It certainly won't pass the Bechdel test now. There will always be sexual references between the Doctor and the Master now, even if they're only made satirically. Double ew.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,244
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Nov 3, 2014 16:16:21 GMT
I'm not sure how this affects the Bechdel Test either way, to be honest. It's not as if Doctor Who has ever been in much danger of actually passing it at any time in its history, at least not on anything like a regular basis.
As for your other comments, I don't share your reaction.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 16:57:13 GMT
No rules broken yet but let me remind people that anti-gay sentiments will not be tolerated. We don't want that kind of prejudice and negativity on these forums.
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Post by Stormcrow on Nov 3, 2014 18:05:02 GMT
I don't think anybody expressed any anti-gay sentiments here. My own comments are not about gender-switching itself being icky; I mean it's icky that the Doctor's arch-enemy is now kissing him and speaking of him in a sexually provocative way. You can't take two characters with the history these two have and suddenly add sexual tension and expect it not to be jarring.
Make the Master female? Fine. Make the Master hot to trot for the Doctor? Not fine. Besides having your arch-enemy in love with you being icky, it's sad that once female the Master suddenly becomes a love-bird, albeit a twisted one. Moffat couldn't come up with a strong female character who doesn't dote on a man.
If Missy had been handled more like the Rani, in motivation if not in temperament, I would be okay with it. An evil mastermind who does NOT show romantic feelings toward the Doctor, whether male or female. Not Moffat slash.
"I couldn't keep on calling myself the Master." Why not? Can't a female food server call herself a waiter? Answer: because Moffat was looking for a way to trick us. Surprise over, now we deal with the fallout.
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Post by Corone on Nov 3, 2014 18:50:51 GMT
Given we've seen so little of her so far I'm inclined to believe Missy kissing the Doctor was simply to screw with his head. I was disappointed not to see the Rani but I'm ok with the Master. One of the best things about the Rani is that she was a rare female villain who never used sexuality to defeat the Doctor, she always fought him a an intellectual, so I'm hoping Missy is just screwing with him. Although I'm finding it odd she said 'you left me to die'. When we last saw the Master he was choosing to jump into the Time War vortex thing the Time Lords opened. Hmm, maybe Missy is the Rani and she's really really screwing with the Doctor...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 18:56:49 GMT
As I said no rules were broken, so no one needs to sweat it or justify anything. It's a fact that some people are super-sensitive about certain topics and might read your opinions in a certain light or with a certain bias so I’m pre-empting this to avoid a crapstorm, like I’ve seen on other forums.
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Post by ninjaconor on Nov 3, 2014 21:10:35 GMT
Although I'm finding it odd she said 'you left me to die'. When we last saw the Master he was choosing to jump into the Time War vortex thing the Time Lords opened. I actually really liked that line BECAUSE it was such an inaccurate account of what happened. I think it shows The Master's paranoia and insanity. She despises The Doctor so much she has to somehow blame all her mistakes on him.
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jennysfan
Dominus Tempus
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Post by jennysfan on Nov 4, 2014 6:53:25 GMT
Which rings some bells in my mind. There would have been a great deal of trauma after 'the End of Time'. One of the things that bugged me about that was the retcon they pulled. The Master's madness became a Rassilon plot. Think about it. Think about how the Master would see that. After all, the White Point Star was sent as a physical link. The drumming was inside his head, some kind of psychic resonance mimicking the heart of a Time Lord. How much of the Master's actions were influenced through this link? How much of the Master's life was playing out Rassilon's war plans? How many crimes was he held accountable for when it was the Will of Rassilon? How many failures? Or was the 'failures' were 'self' sabotage, the silent protests of the Master? I did not like how they turned the Master into a puppet. Now there is a female Master, I cannot help remember Unbound. It had a femaleDoctor and explained why gender shifts were a big deal. Plus, as of Day of the Doctor, the Doctor did leave the Master on Gallifray at the end of the War. Right after he sacrificed himself for that meddlesome bleeding hearts!
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Post by Doctor X on Nov 4, 2014 10:42:01 GMT
The idea of a time lord changing genders upon regeneration has been discussed for ages, so it was always a possibility.
This WAS good at keeping me guessing. I was expecting the Rani at first, then thought that the story didn't fit her style: She's too grounded in science to delve into metaphysics enough to find a way to hijack dying souls. Then I thought that interfering with death for a personal agenda was more in line with the Black Guardian's style, and when she said "The one you left behind," Romana was my next thought.
I WAS speculating right up until she said she was the Master. The Missy/Mistress thing hadn't escaped me, but first I'd thought "Mistress Rani," and second, I figured that undoing his noble sacrifice and retconning him back to life a second time would be beneath even Moffat. He stooped low enough to get in under my radar, so I must say "Well played, sir."
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sirkalon
2nd Incarnation
Is busy with little ones
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Post by sirkalon on Nov 7, 2014 18:32:12 GMT
It was a shock, but I think it might be interesting specially if they get over the whole love lust thing, which might of been the master goofing round, though there is an old saying that love and hate are two sides of the same coin and is easy to flip from one side of the coin to the other plus regen trauma, and I thought of a way he could of escaped through one of the cracks in time and space heck if he did it when the timelords gave the doctor more regenerations it might of forced him to regenerate and since his last regen was corrupted with the life draining dealie it might explain a lot
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Catsmate
13th Incarnation
It's complicated....
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Post by Catsmate on Nov 9, 2014 14:14:59 GMT
After last night, yes it works for me. I wonder what the BBC will do for her/his inevitable return, the same actress or a new one? Or back to male.
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jennysfan
Dominus Tempus
Moved awhile ago, still a mess
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Post by jennysfan on Nov 11, 2014 10:30:20 GMT
They better. That incarnation deserves more than one story...even if it was his/her attempt to reform.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,244
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Nov 11, 2014 13:50:24 GMT
They better. That incarnation deserves more than one story...even if it was his/her attempt to reform. Yep - bring back Michelle Gomez!
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Post by Stormcrow on Nov 11, 2014 14:07:10 GMT
My wife wasn't impressed with the female Master. She rightly pointed out that she was way overplaying her madness, to the point that it was just distracting from the plot.
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Post by angelicdoctor on Nov 11, 2014 17:08:25 GMT
Why not have a female Master? The fairer sex has usually been the cause of many a downfall of many a 'good man'. Just sayin'.
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jennysfan
Dominus Tempus
Moved awhile ago, still a mess
Posts: 195
Favourite Doctors: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, War, 9, 10, 11 & 12 in no particular order
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Post by jennysfan on Nov 11, 2014 20:04:19 GMT
My wife wasn't impressed with the female Master. She rightly pointed out that she was way overplaying her madness, to the point that it was just distracting from the plot. Understandable. I thought it was a little over done too, but it can be toned down without compromising the character. Wouldn't be surprised if 'Missy' was playing it up to contrast with the big birthday surprise. But I could be reading too much into it.
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Post by zebaroth on Nov 11, 2014 22:46:34 GMT
i like the idea of a female master as peter Davidson said that's the thing about regeneration you never what you are going to get
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Post by angelicdoctor on Nov 13, 2014 2:02:03 GMT
Yup. Like a box of chocolates...
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