The Box You opend we came a doctor who / hellriser crossover

[zebaroth]

The doctor and his companion are at antique store
owned by a chianse man the companion buys a puzzle
box later she/he solves it and the Cenobites
Come and Pinhead Says ah doctor we meet again

Some things

how dose the doctor know the
cenobites and Pinhead

what is the box in
terms of Doctor who

what are the cenobites
in the doctor who

[misterharry]

It's been many, many years since I last watched any of the Hellraiser films, so I'm a bit rusty on the details. In the Doctor Who universe, I'd suggest that the Cenobites are one of the races from the Ancient Times - like the Carrionites and the Great Vampires - that the Time Lords tried to wipe out. But in the case of the Cenobites, they saved themselves by escaping into another dimension, the Cenobites' realm of Hell. The Lament Configuration puzzle box is the means to access that dimension from our universe, and vice versa.

I'd say that the Doctor who is most likely to have defeated the Cenobites in the past is the manipulative, scheming 7th Doctor.

[zebaroth]

i would agree with the 7th doctor being the one they meet before

[ryanblake235]

The puzzle box could in fact be an evil tardis - it contains a whole dimension effectively dies it not?

[zebaroth]

Aug 22, 2014 17:44:10 GMT ryanblake235 said:

The puzzle box could in fact be an evil tardis - it contains a whole dimension effectively dies it not?

the box was a gate way that allowed the cenobites to cross the skisime also a tardis has to be big enough to have a door but it is a good idea something to think about

[Catsmate]

Perhaps the Lament Configuration was created by Gallifreyans as a lock to the pocket universe in which they imprisoned the Cenobites (and potentially other groups). It'd be like them to have such a device, just in case.


Or perhaps it was, as stated in some of the Hellraiser media, created by Philip Lemarchand based on information and materials supplied by the inhabitants of the pocket universe. So who was the Duc de L'Isle, the supposed commissioner of the box? Doctor⁷, the Master (or other renegade, seeking to use the powers of the Cenobites), an escaped Cenobite or merely a human meddling in things he shouldn't...

• Maybe the box is just a crude human attempt to interface to a piece of Gallifreyan technology.

Who/what are the Cenobites and where did they come from.

• Perhaps they're one of the groups from the early days of this
  universe, when science/order and magic/chaos battled?
• Or humans who
  later tapped into such powers? And were overwhelmed by them.
  
• Or creatures (or their worshipers) from the previous universe, as alluded to in some of the Whoniverse/Lovecraft speculation?

Questions.

• Is the bell that toll as the puzzle is almost completed related to the Cloister Bell?
• Are the Cenobites related to Faction Paradox? 
• Are there other boxes? What are their functions? Are there other prison universes? If so, what's in them?
  

[zebaroth]

Aug 27, 2014 12:22:00 GMT Catsmate said:

Perhaps the Lament Configuration was created by Gallifreyans as a lock to the pocket universe in which they imprisoned the Cenobites (and potentially other groups). It'd be like them to have such a device, just in case.


Or perhaps it was, as stated in some of the Hellraiser media, created by Philip Lemarchand based on information and materials supplied by the inhabitants of the pocket universe. So who was the Duc de L'Isle, the supposed commissioner of the box? Doctor⁷, the Master (or other renegade, seeking to use the powers of the Cenobites), an escaped Cenobite or merely a human meddling in things he shouldn't...

• Maybe the box is just a crude human attempt to interface to a piece of Gallifreyan technology.

Who/what are the Cenobites and where did they come from.

• Perhaps they're one of the groups from the early days of this
  universe, when science/order and magic/chaos battled?
• Or humans who
  later tapped into such powers? And were overwhelmed by them.
  
• Or creatures (or their worshipers) from the previous universe, as alluded to in some of the Whoniverse/Lovecraft speculation?

Questions.

• Is the bell that toll as the puzzle is almost completed related to the Cloister Bell?
• Are the Cenobites related to Faction Paradox? 
• Are there other boxes? What are their functions? Are there other prison universes? If so, what's in them?
  

there is two continuity's in the hellriser verse in the movie version Duc de L'Isle is a dark wizard and devil worshiper who hied Philip Lemarchand to make the puzzle box so he could use it to summon daemons Philip Lemarchand did not know this when he took the job

clive barker's version Philip Lemarchand was a puzzle maker known for for his music boxes
he was also a mass murder who used the fat of his victims grase the gaers of his puzzle boxes
he checked in to a hotel and never checked out when the police came to find him
his room was covered in blood he was not there and in middle of all the blood was
a puzzle box. ( this the back story i tend think as cannon IMHO)

but having Philip Lemarchand being A time lord would be good

[Catsmate]

Aug 28, 2014 0:04:51 GMT zebaroth said:

Aug 27, 2014 12:22:00 GMT Catsmate said:

Perhaps the Lament Configuration was created by Gallifreyans as a lock to the pocket universe in which they imprisoned the Cenobites (and potentially other groups). It'd be like them to have such a device, just in case.


Or perhaps it was, as stated in some of the Hellraiser media, created by Philip Lemarchand based on information and materials supplied by the inhabitants of the pocket universe. So who was the Duc de L'Isle, the supposed commissioner of the box? Doctor⁷, the Master (or other renegade, seeking to use the powers of the Cenobites), an escaped Cenobite or merely a human meddling in things he shouldn't...

• Maybe the box is just a crude human attempt to interface to a piece of Gallifreyan technology.

Who/what are the Cenobites and where did they come from.

• Perhaps they're one of the groups from the early days of this
  universe, when science/order and magic/chaos battled?
• Or humans who
  later tapped into such powers? And were overwhelmed by them.
  
• Or creatures (or their worshipers) from the previous universe, as alluded to in some of the Whoniverse/Lovecraft speculation?

Questions.

• Is the bell that toll as the puzzle is almost completed related to the Cloister Bell?
• Are the Cenobites related to Faction Paradox? 
• Are there other boxes? What are their functions? Are there other prison universes? If so, what's in them?
  

there is two continuity's in the hellriser verse in the movie version Duc de L'Isle is a dark wizard and devil worshiper who hied Philip Lemarchand to make the puzzle box so he could use it to summon daemons Philip Lemarchand did not know this when he took the job

clive barker's version Philip Lemarchand was a puzzle maker known for for his music boxes
he was also a mass murder who used the fat of his victims grase the gaers of his puzzle boxes
he checked in to a hotel and never checked out when the police came to find him
his room was covered in blood he was not there and in middle of all the blood was
a puzzle box. ( this the back story i tend think as cannon IMHO)

Yeah, I don't know enough about the series (books/films/comics) to really go into detail, but of course multiple continuities always help confuse players who rely on such knowledge. Especially if you change a few points also.

It's not like Who authors have ever hesitated in borrowing bits of other media, from Lovecraft to Captain Scarlet.

Aug 28, 2014 0:04:51 GMT zebaroth said:

but having Philip Lemarchand being A time lord would be good

I like that! Possibly one in hiding (chameleon arch again) who's being used to circumvent the security the Time Lords imposed on the Cenoboite prison. Perhaps de L'Isle know what he is, or maybe Lemarchand is just very good, subconsciously accessing his dormant skills (in the manner of John Smith's cricket ball feat).

Or, and this is something I've played with before, a junior Time Lord caught up in events 'early' (for want of a better term) in the Time War. On Earth for some reason (field research?), perhaps part of a team lead by a more senior Time Lord, who were caught up in a Dalek attack, leaving him as sole survivor but presumed dead by Gallifrey. He's stuck on a primitive planet, with whatever skills and equipment he had on him, trying to survive and 'phone home' but wary of attracting hostile attention.
Possibly he's injured in the attack and has partial amnesia (it happened to Doctor⁸ often enough).

You could even go with the (hackneyed I'll admit) plot device of having another surviving Time Lord (or TARDIS) being held hostage by the Duc de L'Isle to force him to construct the box.

[zebaroth]

Aug 28, 2014 11:42:00 GMT Catsmate said:

Aug 28, 2014 0:04:51 GMT zebaroth said:

there is two continuity's in the hellriser verse in the movie version Duc de L'Isle is a dark wizard and devil worshiper who hied Philip Lemarchand to make the puzzle box so he could use it to summon daemons Philip Lemarchand did not know this when he took the job

clive barker's version Philip Lemarchand was a puzzle maker known for for his music boxes
he was also a mass murder who used the fat of his victims grase the gaers of his puzzle boxes
he checked in to a hotel and never checked out when the police came to find him
his room was covered in blood he was not there and in middle of all the blood was
a puzzle box. ( this the back story i tend think as cannon IMHO)

Yeah, I don't know enough about the series (books/films/comics) to really go into detail, but of course multiple continuities always help confuse players who rely on such knowledge. Especially if you change a few points also.

It's not like Who authors have ever hesitated in borrowing bits of other media, from Lovecraft to Captain Scarlet.

Aug 28, 2014 0:04:51 GMT zebaroth said:

but having Philip Lemarchand being A time lord would be good

I like that! Possibly one in hiding (chameleon arch again) who's being used to circumvent the security the Time Lords imposed on the Cenoboite prison. Perhaps de L'Isle know what he is, or maybe Lemarchand is just very good, subconsciously accessing his dormant skills (in the manner of John Smith's cricket ball feat).

Or, and this is something I've played with before, a junior Time Lord caught up in events 'early' (for want of a better term) in the Time War. On Earth for some reason (field research?), perhaps part of a team lead by a more senior Time Lord, who were caught up in a Dalek attack, leaving him as sole survivor but presumed dead by Gallifrey. He's stuck on a primitive planet, with whatever skills and equipment he had on him, trying to survive and 'phone home' but wary of attracting hostile attention.
Possibly he's injured in the attack and has partial amnesia (it happened to Doctor⁸ often enough).

You could even go with the (hackneyed I'll admit) plot device of having another surviving Time Lord (or TARDIS) being held hostage by the Duc de L'Isle to force him to construct the box.

I like the bit about a tardis being held hostage. also Duc de L'Isle could be a time lord
but he is evil. one of the things in the bloodlines i like is the elsyum configuration it was a way to destroy the cenobites that Lemarchand designed it took close to 1000 for it to be perfected.


also the ruler of the cenobites is
Leviathan


Leviathan, Lord of The Labyrinth, is the god of flesh, hunger, and desire. He is the creator of the Cenobites and all beings in his dimension serve his will absolutely, willingly or otherwise.
Powers & AbilitiesEdit

Leviathan has the power to create any cenobite in any way, shape or form he sees fit to fulfill its purpose. He is radiant with beams of black light that causes those hit by it to see and feel their sins and wrongdoings.
WeaknessesEdit

Leviathan is weakened and suffers loss of power when the Lament Configuration is unsolved while in Hell. When this happens, he reverts into his cube state.
OriginEdit

Leviathan's origin and early life is unknown, though judging by how many cenobites Hell has had over the course of many millennia, it may be safe to assume that Leviathan is possibly the fallen angel from the Bible. Leviathan himself looks like a completely solved Lament Configuration and he reshapes into a cube when his powers shut down.

the doctor would face Leviathan at the end games story line and destroy him to put end to the cenobites
once and for all it could cuase the doctor to regenerate

[zebaroth]

my last comment rises the problem of how the doctor would kill a god
esluym is to big( it is a huge space Stetion ) to take to Leviathan


an idea the doctor rigs up some huge speakers connected to an amp he uses
the sonic screw driver to generate a sound that shatters Leviathan the cenobites
die and the labyrinth to collapse from the center out and the doctor and the companions
have to make a mad dash to the tardis

[Catsmate]

Aug 28, 2014 23:22:19 GMT zebaroth said:

Aug 28, 2014 11:42:00 GMT Catsmate said:

Yeah, I don't know enough about the series (books/films/comics) to really go into detail, but of course multiple continuities always help confuse players who rely on such knowledge. Especially if you change a few points also.

It's not like Who authors have ever hesitated in borrowing bits of other media, from Lovecraft to Captain Scarlet.

I like that! Possibly one in hiding (chameleon arch again) who's being used to circumvent the security the Time Lords imposed on the Cenoboite prison. Perhaps de L'Isle know what he is, or maybe Lemarchand is just very good, subconsciously accessing his dormant skills (in the manner of John Smith's cricket ball feat).

Or, and this is something I've played with before, a junior Time Lord caught up in events 'early' (for want of a better term) in the Time War. On Earth for some reason (field research?), perhaps part of a team lead by a more senior Time Lord, who were caught up in a Dalek attack, leaving him as sole survivor but presumed dead by Gallifrey. He's stuck on a primitive planet, with whatever skills and equipment he had on him, trying to survive and 'phone home' but wary of attracting hostile attention.
Possibly he's injured in the attack and has partial amnesia (it happened to Doctor⁸ often enough).

You could even go with the (hackneyed I'll admit) plot device of having another surviving Time Lord (or TARDIS) being held hostage by the Duc de L'Isle to force him to construct the box.

I like the bit about a tardis being held hostage. also Duc de L'Isle could be a time lord
but he is evil. one of the things in the bloodlines i like is the elsyum configuration it was a way to destroy the cenobites that Lemarchand designed it took close to 1000 for it to be perfected.


also the ruler of the cenobites is
Leviathan


Leviathan, Lord of The Labyrinth, is the god of flesh, hunger, and desire. He is the creator of the Cenobites and all beings in his dimension serve his will absolutely, willingly or otherwise.
Powers & AbilitiesEdit

Leviathan has the power to create any cenobite in any way, shape or form he sees fit to fulfill its purpose. He is radiant with beams of black light that causes those hit by it to see and feel their sins and wrongdoings.
WeaknessesEdit

Leviathan is weakened and suffers loss of power when the Lament Configuration is unsolved while in Hell. When this happens, he reverts into his cube state.
OriginEdit

Leviathan's origin and early life is unknown, though judging by how many cenobites Hell has had over the course of many millennia, it may be safe to assume that Leviathan is possibly the fallen angel from the Bible. Leviathan himself looks like a completely solved Lament Configuration and he reshapes into a cube when his powers shut down.

the doctor would face Leviathan at the end games story line and destroy him to put end to the cenobites
once and for all it could cuase the doctor to regenerate

Interesting. I didn't watch many of the films (only the first two I think) and didn't know much of the backstory including that the timeline goes into the future.

Translating into Who seems possible, here's my take.
Leviathan is one of the things imprisoned by the Time Lords when the universe was young, and now controls his pocket dimension (The Labyrinth) but wants out (to rule/destroy the universe, be reveged on the Time Lords et cetera).

• Somewhat reminiscent of Omega, he has near total control of The Labyrinth but needs agents in the main universe
  

The Cenobites are Leviathan's creations, distorted residues of humans corrupted by exposure to his power. They posses various powers, levels of free will and loyalty to Leviathan, and may have their own schemes and agendas.

The Lament Configuration is a crude human interface to a Gallifreyan portal that connects to The Labyrinth (the Time Lords never throw anything away if it might be useful). Manipulating the puzzle is part of the activation sequence for whatever form the portal takes.

• Perhaps some element of the portal was hidden on Earth, enabling the creation of the Lament Configuration
  

LeMarchande and the Duc De L'Isle are minor Time Lords, students barely more than a century old, who were stranded on Earth by one of the opening skirmishes of the Time War. Their tutors and any other students were killed and their TARDIS damaged. One assumes the identity of the Duc De L'Isle, seeking a comfortable life and possibly a power base for his own plans (think of a young Master) while LeMarchande kept his head down and waited for rescue.

• Possibly he'd lost his memories, or some of them.
  

De L'Isle knew of The Labyrinth (perhaps one of the reasons for the trip to eighteenth century France was to check on the portal) and saw it as a means to power. But he lacked the skills necessary to open the portal, hence his need for LeMarchande.

• Why would LeMarchande create the Lament Configuration? Perhaps he knew De L'Isle would try to access The Labyrinth anyway and do eve more damage without it. Perhaps he planned to close the portal, hence the creation of the Elysium Configuration. Or did De L'Isle have a hold over him? TARDIS? Medical care?
  

Of course the plan goes wrong. Leviathan gains a level of influence in the universe, and garbled knowledge of the Lament Configuration passes down the ages along with the box itself. Stories of the power it can bring to whoever solves it...

• Or boxes, there could be more than one.
  

In fact the box could appear, to be used by the desperate, stupid or venial, pretty much any time in human history.

[zebaroth]

Aug 29, 2014 11:39:09 GMT Catsmate said:

Aug 28, 2014 23:22:19 GMT zebaroth said:

I like the bit about a tardis being held hostage. also Duc de L'Isle could be a time lord
but he is evil. one of the things in the bloodlines i like is the elsyum configuration it was a way to destroy the cenobites that Lemarchand designed it took close to 1000 for it to be perfected.


also the ruler of the cenobites is
Leviathan


Leviathan, Lord of The Labyrinth, is the god of flesh, hunger, and desire. He is the creator of the Cenobites and all beings in his dimension serve his will absolutely, willingly or otherwise.
Powers & AbilitiesEdit

Leviathan has the power to create any cenobite in any way, shape or form he sees fit to fulfill its purpose. He is radiant with beams of black light that causes those hit by it to see and feel their sins and wrongdoings.
WeaknessesEdit

Leviathan is weakened and suffers loss of power when the Lament Configuration is unsolved while in Hell. When this happens, he reverts into his cube state.
OriginEdit

Leviathan's origin and early life is unknown, though judging by how many cenobites Hell has had over the course of many millennia, it may be safe to assume that Leviathan is possibly the fallen angel from the Bible. Leviathan himself looks like a completely solved Lament Configuration and he reshapes into a cube when his powers shut down.

the doctor would face Leviathan at the end games story line and destroy him to put end to the cenobites
once and for all it could cuase the doctor to regenerate

Interesting. I didn't watch many of the films (only the first two I think) and didn't know much of the backstory including that the timeline goes into the future.

Translating into Who seems possible, here's my take.
Leviathan is one of the things imprisoned by the Time Lords when the universe was young, and now controls his pocket dimension (The Labyrinth) but wants out (to rule/destroy the universe, be reveged on the Time Lords et cetera).

• Somewhat reminiscent of Omega, he has near total control of The Labyrinth but needs agents in the main universe
  

The Cenobites are Leviathan's creations, distorted residues of humans corrupted by exposure to his power. They posses various powers, levels of free will and loyalty to Leviathan, and may have their own schemes and agendas.

The Lament Configuration is a crude human interface to a Gallifreyan portal that connects to The Labyrinth (the Time Lords never throw anything away if it might be useful). Manipulating the puzzle is part of the activation sequence for whatever form the portal takes.

• Perhaps some element of the portal was hidden on Earth, enabling the creation of the Lament Configuration
  

LeMarchande and the Duc De L'Isle are minor Time Lords, students barely more than a century old, who were stranded on Earth by one of the opening skirmishes of the Time War. Their tutors and any other students were killed and their TARDIS damaged. One assumes the identity of the Duc De L'Isle, seeking a comfortable life and possibly a power base for his own plans (think of a young Master) while LeMarchande kept his head down and waited for rescue.

• Possibly he'd lost his memories, or some of them.
  

De L'Isle knew of The Labyrinth (perhaps one of the reasons for the trip to eighteenth century France was to check on the portal) and saw it as a means to power. But he lacked the skills necessary to open the portal, hence his need for LeMarchande.

• Why would LeMarchande create the Lament Configuration? Perhaps he knew De L'Isle would try to access The Labyrinth anyway and do eve more damage without it. Perhaps he planned to close the portal, hence the creation of the Elysium Configuration. Or did De L'Isle have a hold over him? TARDIS? Medical care?
  

Of course the plan goes wrong. Leviathan gains a level of influence in the universe, and garbled knowledge of the Lament Configuration passes down the ages along with the box itself. Stories of the power it can bring to whoever solves it...

• Or boxes, there could be more than one.
  

In fact the box could appear, to be used by the desperate, stupid or venial, pretty much any time in human history.

I like it there is more then one others were commissioned by Angelic Leviathan's
daughter after she was summoned by Duc De L'Isle

[Catsmate]

I've posted a thread about the Comte de Saint-Germain, who was active in the second half of the eighteenth century, contemporary with LeMarchande and the Duc De L'Isle. and a person of mystery in his own right. He might fit into a Hellraiser/Who crossover set in this period.
Or much later if he is indeed immortal.

[zebaroth]

Oct 15, 2014 13:39:00 GMT Catsmate said:

I've posted a thread about the Comte de Saint-Germain, who was active in the second half of the eighteenth century, contemporary with LeMarchande and the Duc De L'Isle. and a person of mystery in his own right. He might fit into a Hellraiser/Who crossover set in this period.
Or much later if he is indeed immortal.

i will take a look at it

[Catsmate]

Was anyone else struck by the resemblance between the puzzle box and the TARDIS in it's cubic form in Flatline?

[zebaroth]

Oct 22, 2014 11:14:48 GMT Catsmate said:

Was anyone else struck by the resemblance between the puzzle box and the TARDIS in it's cubic form in Flatline?

i did noticed that it also looked like the pandoraca to

[zebaroth]

Aug 29, 2014 22:38:48 GMT zebaroth said:

Aug 29, 2014 11:39:09 GMT Catsmate said:

Interesting. I didn't watch many of the films (only the first two I think) and didn't know much of the backstory including that the timeline goes into the future.

Translating into Who seems possible, here's my take.
Leviathan is one of the things imprisoned by the Time Lords when the universe was young, and now controls his pocket dimension (The Labyrinth) but wants out (to rule/destroy the universe, be reveged on the Time Lords et cetera).

• Somewhat reminiscent of Omega, he has near total control of The Labyrinth but needs agents in the main universe
  

The Cenobites are Leviathan's creations, distorted residues of humans corrupted by exposure to his power. They posses various powers, levels of free will and loyalty to Leviathan, and may have their own schemes and agendas.

The Lament Configuration is a crude human interface to a Gallifreyan portal that connects to The Labyrinth (the Time Lords never throw anything away if it might be useful). Manipulating the puzzle is part of the activation sequence for whatever form the portal takes.

• Perhaps some element of the portal was hidden on Earth, enabling the creation of the Lament Configuration
  

LeMarchande and the Duc De L'Isle are minor Time Lords, students barely more than a century old, who were stranded on Earth by one of the opening skirmishes of the Time War. Their tutors and any other students were killed and their TARDIS damaged. One assumes the identity of the Duc De L'Isle, seeking a comfortable life and possibly a power base for his own plans (think of a young Master) while LeMarchande kept his head down and waited for rescue.

• Possibly he'd lost his memories, or some of them.
  

De L'Isle knew of The Labyrinth (perhaps one of the reasons for the trip to eighteenth century France was to check on the portal) and saw it as a means to power. But he lacked the skills necessary to open the portal, hence his need for LeMarchande.

• Why would LeMarchande create the Lament Configuration? Perhaps he knew De L'Isle would try to access The Labyrinth anyway and do eve more damage without it. Perhaps he planned to close the portal, hence the creation of the Elysium Configuration. Or did De L'Isle have a hold over him? TARDIS? Medical care?
  

Of course the plan goes wrong. Leviathan gains a level of influence in the universe, and garbled knowledge of the Lament Configuration passes down the ages along with the box itself. Stories of the power it can bring to whoever solves it...

• Or boxes, there could be more than one.
  

In fact the box could appear, to be used by the desperate, stupid or venial, pretty much any time in human history.

I like it there is more then one others were commissioned by Angelic Leviathan's
daughter after she was summoned by Duc De L'Isle

also there are other puzzles boxes besides the Lament Configuration it was the most well known one and the easiest to find

[Polar Bear]

The Cenobites are very much in the Lovecraftian "gods" mold, which fits in well with the Seventh Doctor's audio adventures.

[Catsmate]

Bump.

Paul Kane, whom I'd never heard of but is apparently big in the Hellraiser fandom, has written a Hellraiser/Sherlock Holmes crossover called Sherlock Holmes and the Servants of Hell.
I haven't read it yet (and I'm rather unimpressed by the bit I have browsed) but it might be of interest.

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