Rassilon
Administrator
Grand Administrator
Posts: 751 
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Post by Rassilon on Mar 18, 2013 16:01:36 GMT
What did you think?
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Post by Eryx on May 18, 2013 18:47:02 GMT
Absolutely brilliant! Loved it!
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stahlman
3rd Incarnation
Doctor, stop wasting my time, will you?
Posts: 222
Favourite Doctors: second,third,fourth
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Post by stahlman on May 18, 2013 18:52:52 GMT
Splendid stuff. A bit of Forrest Gump style CGI wizardry ,Richard E Grant and John Hurt adding to another bravura turn from Mr Smith and a cliffhanger-ish ending..
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Post by Rel Fexive on May 18, 2013 19:07:07 GMT
That has some surprising stuff going on. Not least to say THAT bit there. Yowzers.
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Post by Escher on May 18, 2013 19:15:23 GMT
Wow.
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jay042
3rd Incarnation
Working on some art.
Posts: 264
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Post by jay042 on May 19, 2013 0:08:53 GMT
Moffat you magnificent Bastard
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Post by zebaroth on May 19, 2013 2:20:05 GMT
SPOLLERLS
dose this mean John hutze is going to be the next doctor
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Post by Kit on May 19, 2013 5:55:37 GMT
Did we see 1-10? I didnt spot 8 or 10 that I recall.
rumor is that Hurt is the 'real' 9 and thus Eccleston is 10, Tennant is 11, and Smith is 12. Weird, if true. you'd think BBC would hate that from a branding perspective.
one supposes he could be the Valeyard since he was mentioned again.
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Post by da professor on May 19, 2013 6:53:37 GMT
rumor is that Hurt is the 'real' 9 and thus Eccleston is 10, Tennant is 11, and Smith is 12. Weird, if true. you'd think BBC would hate that from a branding perspective. As the Doctor himself said, this is the one who broke the promise inherent in the name 'the Doctor'; he is still the same person, but he is not 'the Doctor'. This means 9, 10 and 11 still hold their positions in order of which Doctor they are even if John Hurt is playing an incarnation of the person who usually calls himself the Doctor from between Doctors 8 and 9. |
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Post by ninjaconor on May 19, 2013 7:12:38 GMT
I think the Time War is a bit of an obvious thing for him to have done though. I'm betting it'll be some so-far-unmentioned atrocity that he committed.
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stahlman
3rd Incarnation
Doctor, stop wasting my time, will you?
Posts: 222
Favourite Doctors: second,third,fourth
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Post by stahlman on May 19, 2013 8:41:29 GMT
The significance of him being the real 9th Doctor is that Matt would be the 12th and therefore the last regeneration whatever John Hurt's model called himself. I thought the Valeyard was somewhere between the 11th and 12th regenerations. No doubt Mr Moffatt has this all covered.
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Post by ninjaconor on May 19, 2013 9:30:35 GMT
The significance of him being the real 9th Doctor is that Matt would be the 12th and therefore the last regeneration whatever John Hurt's model called himself. I thought the Valeyard was somewhere between the 11th and 12th regenerations. No doubt Mr Moffatt has this all covered. No, Time Lords can regenerate 12 times, meaning they have 13 bodies (the one they are born into and then the further 12). Even if Matt Smith is the 12th he should still have one left (unless the time David Tennant regenerated into himself counts as one). From what I remember, The Valeyard was a being from between the Doctor's twelfth and final forms. I always assumed that to mean he was more like a Watcher than a fully fledged Doctor incarnation. |
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Post by Escher on May 19, 2013 10:25:55 GMT
If you check the 50th location pics elsewhere, the jacket Hurt is wearing is Ecclestone's jacket. He must be the 9th Doctor.
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Post by Rel Fexive on May 19, 2013 11:31:24 GMT
Technically, it would appear that he is the ninth incarnation of the Time Lord known as "The Doctor", but because the other/later incarnations believe that he betrayed that name and so the ideal, the promise, he is not "The Doctor" in name.
Which could make him the ninth incarnation (and Nine the tenth incarnation, Ten the eleventh incarnation and Eleven the twelfth incarnation) but not the ninth Doctor.
The ninth Doctor is still Eccleston, the tenth is Tennant and the eleventh Doctor is Smith, but this incarnation is not "The Doctor".
If if he's wearing Nine's jacket, it's because... Nine wore it afterwards so he wouldn't forget, like a badge of his guilt while denying the other self that really did the deed and taking it on himself instead.
Or something.
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Post by Eryx on May 19, 2013 14:28:13 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Hurt was an older version of 8 when he was involved in the Time War.
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stahlman
3rd Incarnation
Doctor, stop wasting my time, will you?
Posts: 222
Favourite Doctors: second,third,fourth
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Post by stahlman on May 19, 2013 19:47:45 GMT
This is really problematic-it is a trick that they could have used in the recent James Bond movies-the concept that 'James Bond' is simply a cover and not a true identity-so 'The Doctor' could just be a title which a worthy incarnation could adopt if all the earlier incarnations agreed.
No: don't buy it-it looks like a cop out cos Ecclestone refused to come back-although I am sure I will be proved wrong and eat my words in late November.
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Post by Kit on May 19, 2013 21:18:32 GMT
My memory of casting news is that Hurt was going to be in the 50th back when it was still hoped Eccleston would be. so, not a case of hurt replacing Eccleston, but that he was supposed to be there too. Thus, post Time War Doctors dealing with Time War Doctor.
I know everyone has been wondering about regeneration limits since the new series began, but for me its always been a non-issue. first, if the show is successful, BBC keeps it going no matter the regen limit. That said, in-universe, I haven seen it as an issue since The five Doctors. The Time Lords offered the Master new regenerations when he wasnt even in a Gallifreyan body. In the Time War, they not only resurrected the Master, but gave him a body capable of regenerating too. so, there are ways around it. and, of course, there is always, River using up all her regenrations to save the Doctor. so, not something i worry about and frankly, wonder how much screen time will be devoted to the issue.
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Post by zebaroth on May 19, 2013 21:23:54 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Hurt was an older version of 8 when he was involved in the Time War. that is what i was just thinking |
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Post by Eryx on May 19, 2013 23:23:23 GMT
I know everyone has been wondering about regeneration limits since the new series began, but for me its always been a non-issue. first, if the show is successful, BBC keeps it going no matter the regen limit. That said, in-universe, I haven seen it as an issue since The five Doctors. The Time Lords offered the Master new regenerations when he wasnt even in a Gallifreyan body. In the Time War, they not only resurrected the Master, but gave him a body capable of regenerating too. so, there are ways around it. and, of course, there is always, River using up all her regenrations to save the Doctor. so, not something i worry about and frankly, wonder how much screen time will be devoted to the issue. I think the regen issue has been postponed already simply by River using her future regenerations to save the Doctor. |
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Post by Curufea on May 20, 2013 1:35:08 GMT
so, not something i worry about and frankly, wonder how much screen time will be devoted to the issue. Me either. I tend to not worry about any continuity in science fiction - and certainly not Doctor Who which by its very nature is predisposed towards retconning. They'll devote time to regen if it's plot relevant, or character relevant at the time. - so it depends who writes the ep. |
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Post by Kit on May 20, 2013 1:48:49 GMT
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Post by Curufea on May 20, 2013 5:37:30 GMT
I like that summary
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Post by Escher on May 20, 2013 8:22:11 GMT
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Post by da professor on May 20, 2013 11:42:39 GMT
It's a much better way of saying what I tried to earlier. |
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Post by Rel Fexive on May 20, 2013 12:33:21 GMT
It's a much better way of saying what I tried to earlier. And me, too. It lays the whole concept out very clearly. |
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Post by Eryx on May 20, 2013 17:23:57 GMT
One thing I don't get after rewatching the episode... the prophecy spoke "on the fields of Trenzalore at the fall of the Eleventh, a question will be asked."
Did we see a fall of the eleventh?
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Ordovician
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 79
Favourite Doctors: 2, 3, 4, 12
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Post by Ordovician on May 20, 2013 18:02:20 GMT
Maybe the 'fall of the eleventh' was a literal one, when the TARDIS fell to the planet?
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Rassilon
Administrator
Grand Administrator
Posts: 751
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Post by Rassilon on May 20, 2013 18:09:43 GMT
Did we see a fall of the eleventh? The 11th Doctor fell to 12th place as Hurt is the forgotten 9th. |
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Post by Rel Fexive on May 20, 2013 21:34:00 GMT
That would be... interesting. It wouldn't be the first time a prophecy tuned out to be mostly rubbish that someone got wrong, after all.
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Post by Kit on May 21, 2013 1:05:02 GMT
I've seen a good argument that the prophecy is not his name and the opening of the tomb, but the end of the episode when Clara asks about Hurt.
there is also a pretty good argument that Smith is still the 11th doctor. He's just the 12th incarnation. Hurt exists between McGann and Eccleston and doesnt get to be the Doctor because of what he did. much like smith saying he couldnt be the Doctor anymore if he lobotomized the star whale
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