The Extracanonical McGann (Novel era)

[Siskoid]

Annnnnnnd we're off... Will spoil the cover as soon as it's done. I'm having more difficulty than usual finding the right high-res photo-real elements to crowd around McGann given the nature of the material, but I'll get there.

[drinkplentyofmalk]

I don't believe anyone's mentioned it yet, but 'We Can't Stop What's Coming', the 8th Doctor's story in the Target Storybook (surprisingly) features Fitz and Trix.

To sum it up (and this is a very short story, so these are particularly egregious as spoilers): the TARDIS crew stumble across employees of The Company, which sending it's most disposable employees to hunt 'simulated lifeforms' under the guise of testing their new weaponry. In reality, these are their neanderthal-like ancestors from ten thousand years in the past, and killing them turns the employees into 'anomaly bombs' capable of destroying areas of time. The crew try to confront the company, but they've already been double-crossed by whoever they were selling the weapons to and destroyed. ​
I'd gladly write up the summary for anything in it, even if I'm not familiar enough with stats to do that part of it. (Honestly, there's nothing massively interesting or alien about the neanderthals or accountants, just the fact that they have grey skin. The main trouble I'm having with visualizing how to format this?
Would the entry be summarizing The Company itself, with the Accountants and Neanderthals getting small stat write-ups? A small section on 'creating' anomaly bombs and how they might be weaponized in-game? The only gadget of note is the DNA tags attached to the Neanderthals that confirm them as the accountants ancestors. While important to actually solving the puzzle, I don't know how much it'd be worth allotting space in the book to something so minor.

While a short story I still feel like this is very worth including, namely as it's the first story featuring the Novel companions in years and, I believe features them post-the final EDA, making this the most recent adventure featuring them.
...uh, of course feel free to disregard this entire post if you've all already found out about this story and written about anything from it and I've just somehow missed it. I'm new to this.

[misterharry]

I've not read this story so hadn't considered it for inclusion. From what you say, it doesn't sound as if there's enough info for a full entry on the Company or the aliens (a common problem with short stories), so I'd probably consider writing an entry on Anomaly Bombs for the Gadget section instead. Are they still living creatures requiring full stats at that point, or just Gadget stats?

[drinkplentyofmalk]

They're still living creatures, but barely able to do much but writhe in pain. They do seem to be able to talk, however.
'They were fading and flickering, in and out of existence. Like solid projections, somehow, switching on and off. His eyes opened, seeming to glow. His face was cracking, starting to split open. ''Sorry.'' He whispered.'
So, I'd say it'd be in the gadget section, but it'd almost function like a major bad trait that'd be applied to a character?

The description '-trapping whole fleets, isolating star systems. The first prototypes of weapons for wars to be fought in four dimensions.' gives a pretty clear idea of what they're for: 'locking off' an physical space across time. It's mentioned enough times that the Neanderthals were from ten thousand years ago, so I'd assume that how much time the location is locked away is the same as how far back the murderers ancestor was. Plop one of them down somewhere and that day, as well as the ten thousand years before it, is cut-off from the rest of space-time.

We don't literally see them explode, but it's implied they'll do it eventually. They're teleported away by The Company rather quickly so it's a bit ambiguous on if the Doctor could have even tried to save them. It'd take a LOT of story points, if so.

Yeah, it does suffer from short story syndrome: as in I've literally just typed out every piece of information relating to this. I can clean this up into a writeup fairly easily, but I feel like it'd work best as if it was written as The Company pitching the product to you. Which I'm not quite sure if I'm up to, creative writing wise.

QUICK EDIT: Before I forget, I actually found all of the Stories in the collection to have an element that I thought was interesting enough to warrant inclusion. I'd imagine the content for Docs 1-5 are lower priority, as their first addendum have already been released. Should I take notes and make writeups of these 'on my own time', and only post them in their respective Doctor's channels when I'm done/if I need clarification about an aspect?

[misterharry]

New contributors are always welcome! But you need to send submissions to Siskoid rather than post them here, so get in touch with him direct to let him know what you intend - you can PM him here, or his email address is at the foot of the EU Sourcebooks Index page. He'll also be able to advise on when it's best to submit anything.

Also, if you've not already done so, have a look at the Submissions Guidelines for guidance on word count and formatting. Not including game stats is fine as we can add these later, but please provide enough info on their capabilities etc in case we don't have access to the source story.

The only story we've already covered from the Target Storybook is Punting, for which we included the Midori in the Fourth Doctor Addendum.

Welcome aboard!

[Siskoid]

Took a while to craft the cover, but we're back on track.

[misterharry]

Nice one!

And to whet everyone's appetites even further, here's a list of things I've already written for this one:


BIG FINISH AUDIOS:

The Company of Friends: Benny’s Story - Countess Venhella, Location/Epsilon Minima, Gadget/Manumitters
The Company of Friends: Fitz’s Story – Gastan, Location/Entusso
The Company of Friends: Izzy’s Story – Courtmaster Cruel, Location/Aggrotron Offices
The Company of Friends: Mary’s Story – Mary Shelley, Location/Villa Diodati [Although Mary Shelley deserves a separate entry in this volume as she becomes the 8th Doctor’s companion, I’ve assumed that Byron, Percy Shelley, Dr Polidori and Claire Clairmont will all be covered in an official 13th Doctor Sourcebook somewhere down the line, in a chapter on The Haunting of Villa Diodati; or failing that we can include them in our 13th Doctor EU Sourcebook when we get there.]


EIGHTH DOCTOR ADVENTURES (NOVELS):

The Eight Doctors – Sam Jones, President Niroc, Councillor Ryoth
Vampire Science – Brigadier-General Adrienne Kramer, Joanna Harris (with a sidebar on Vampire Bloodfasting), Gadget/Vamp-Away
The Bodysnatchers – Zygons, Gadget/Daxamoil Suits
Genocide – Tractites, Location/Paratractis, Gadget/Time Trees
War of the Daleks – Dalek Variants (Spider Daleks, Striders, Marine Daleks), Sidebar/The Dalek Continuity Controversy
Alien Bodies – Homunculette & Marie (including a sidebar on The War in Heaven), Faction Paradox, The Celestis, The Shift, Krotons, Location/The Unthinkable City, Gadget/The Relic (including a sidebar on Biodata)
Kursaal – The Jax, Location/Kursaal
Option Lock – The Khameirian
Longest Day – Kusks, Location/Hirath
Legacy of the Daleks – Knight Donna, Location/Domain London
Dreamstone Moon – Location/Dreamstone Moon, Gadget/Dreamstones
Seeing I – The I, Location/Ha’olam, Gadget/Eye Implants
Placebo Effect – Location/Micawber’s World
Vanderdeken’s Children – Location/The Vanderdeken Derelict
The Scarlet Empress – Iris Wildthyme (6th incarnation), The Scarlet Empress, The Four, Location/Hyspero
The Janus Conjunction – Location/Janus Prime, Location/Menda
Beltempest – Eldred Saketh, The Hoth, Seekers, Location/The Bel System
The Face-Eater – The Face-Eater, Location/Proxima 2
The Taint – Fitz Kreiner, Azoth, The Beast
Demontage – Canvines, Location/Vega Station, Gadget/”Murdering art” by Toulour Martinique
Revolution Man – Jean-Pierre Rex, Ed Hill, Gadget/Om-Tsor
Dominion – Professor Jennifer Nagle, Location/The Dominion
Unnatural History – Professor Daniel Joyce, Griffin, Krakens, Location/Temporal Cicatrices
Autumn Mist – The Sidhe
Interference (Books One & Two) – Compassion, I.M. Foreman, The Remote, Location/Anathema, Location/Dust, Gadget/The Cold, Gadget/Bottle Universes, Gadget/Remote Receivers
The Blue Angel – Daedalus, Icarus, Location/The Enclave, Location/The Obverse
The Taking of Planet 5 – Elder Things, The Memeovore
Frontier Worlds – Raab, Location/Drebnar
Parallel 59 – Location/Skale
The Shadows of Avalon – Romana III, Cavis & Gandar, Fair Folk, Location/Avalon
The Fall of Yquatine – The Omnethoth, Location/The Minerva System
Coldheart – Spulver Worms, Location/Eskon
The Space Age – The Makers
The Banquo Legacy – Catherine & Richard Harries, Location/Banquo Manor, Gadget/Artron Inhibitor
The Ancestor Cell – Greyjan the Sane, Location/The Edifice [NB Stats for Grandfather Paradox are included in the main Faction Paradox entry under Alien Bodies, and those for Father Kreiner are in Fitz’s entry under The Taint.]
The Burning – Roger Nepath, The Burning
Casualties of War – Mary Minett, Dr Charles Banham
The Turing Test – Alan Turing, Graham Greene, Joseph Heller, Kim Philby, Colonel Herbert Elgar
Endgame – Madame Razetskia
Father Time – Miranda Dawkins, The Klade, Gadget/Sonic Suitcase
Escape Velocity – Anji Kapoor, Dave Young, Control, The Kulan
EarthWorld – Location/New Jupiter, Location/EarthWorld
Vanishing Point – Cauchemar, Location/The Creator’s World
Eater of Wasps – Time Commandos, Charles Rigby, Gadget/Bio-Psionic Mutator
The Year of Intelligent Tigers – Karl Sadeghi, Hitchemus Tigers, Location/Hitchemus
The Slow Empire – Vortex Wraiths, Location/The Shakrath Empire, Gadget/Transference Technology
Dark Progeny – WorldCorp, Location/Ceres Alpha
The City of the Dead – Jonas Rust (with a sidebar on the return of magic following the destruction of Gallifrey), Water Elementals, Gadget/Bone Charm
Grimm Reality – Abanaks, The Vuim, Location/Albert
The Adventuress of Henrietta Street – Scarlette, Juliette Vierge, Sabbath (including a sidebar on the Doctor during his amnesiac phase following the destruction of Gallifrey), The Man With the Rosette (including a sidebar on the four surviving elementals), Babewyns, Gadget/The Jonah
Mad Dogs and Englishmen – Brenda Soobie [Iris Wildthyme’s 3rd incarnation], Noël Coward, MIAOW, Location/The Dogworld
Hope – Silver, The Silverati, Location/Endpoint
Anachrophobia – Clock People, Location/Isolation Station Forty
Trading Futures – Jonah Cosgrove, Baskerville, Onihrs, Location/Earth, Eurozone Era, Gadget/Pad


PAST DOCTOR ADVENTURES (NOVELS):

Wolfsbane – Dryads
Fear Itself – Fear and Loathing, Location/Farside Station
The Infinity Doctors – An Off-Off Canon entry, including stats for the Doctor, the Magistrate, Ohm and Lord Savar


VIRGIN NEW ADVENTURES (NOVELS):

The Dying Days – Brigadier Sir Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart, Lord Edward Greyhaven, Lord Xznaal


TELOS NOVELLAS:

Rip Tide – Ruth
Fallen Gods – Alcestis, The Fallen Gods, Location/Kaménai
The Eye of the Tyger – The Tyger, Location/The Conservancy


SHORT STORIES:

Femme Fatale (in More Short Trips) – Andy Warhol
The Time Lord’s Story (in Short Trips: Repercussions) - Tianna
Organism 96 (in Tales of Terror) – Organism 96


COMPANION CHRONICLES (AUDIOS):

The Elixir of Doom – Jo Jones


BBC AUDIOBOOKS:

Bounty – Rhiptogans, Gadget/The Bug (The Doctor’s VW Beetle)
Dead Time – The Forgotten
The People’s Temple – Location/Stonehenge, 2500 BC
The Scent of Blood – James Macfarlane, Lord Elmhurst, Gadget/Bowship


DWM COMIC-STRIPS:

End Game – Izzy Sinclair
Fire and Brimstone – The Threshold
Tooth and Claw - Fey Truscott-Sade/Feyde
The Road to Hell – Katsura Sato
The Company of Thieves – Kroton the Cyberman
The Glorious Dead – The Master, Sidebar/The Glory
Ophidius – Destrii, Location/Ophidius
Children of the Revolution – Location/Kyrol, including stats for the humanised Daleks
Oblivion – Jodafra, Location/Oblivion
The Power of Thoueris! - Thoueris
The Flood – Far-Future Cybermen


RADIO TIMES COMIC-STRIPS:

Stacy Townsend & Ssard


OTHER STORIES:

Shada (webcast/audio) – Location/Shada


I'm currently working on The Book of the Still. But there are still three Big Finish audios (the Mary Shelley trilogy) and the final seventeen EDAs up for grabs, as well as numerous short stories and comic-strips. If anyone wants to pick up any of these, let me know or I'll just continue on through them.

[grinch]

Love the cover Siskoid. Especially because I imagine it must have been hard work finding suitable images for this volume.

[Siskoid]

Jun 3, 2021 21:10:25 GMT grinch said:

Love the cover Siskoid. Especially because I imagine it must have been hard work finding suitable images for this volume.

The hardest yet. I cursed a lot.

[drinkplentyofmalk]

I second the cover being great. I love that shade of grey that manages to still look dynamic, and that the only thing in the composition that isn't a companion (at least, I assume all those people are companions) is a tiny little dinosaur sticking it's head out.

The only thing I've already written for this is the Anomaly Bombs entry I was posting about here a bit ago, but I'm planning on covering what is essentially literally everything from the comics that the TARDIS wiki timeline puts at this part of the Doctor's life that misterharry hasn't already covered.

As these are just the notes I've taken from a quick read through of it all, I mind find that some of these aren't enough to write an entry about and I may combine things into entries or split them up, as the writing process dictates.
I've also mostly glossed over one-off stories on the basis that they might not have enough for me to dig into; if I do overlook something, then the truly wonderful Addendum format of these means I don't need to tear my hair out.

MISC

Doctor Grace Holloway (The Body Politic (Prisoners of Time), The Fallen) [An interesting case where neither of these two post-TV Movie appearances would be enough on their own to warrant an entry, but taking these two desperate works written at two different times by different creative teams and using those brushstrokes to create a full picture makes for some interesting material]

RADIO TIMES COMIC
Courtly Political Intrigue Era Mars
Equinoids
I really want to see if I can stretch and make an entry for the Shapeshifters who appear at the end, under the assumption that we don't know what they are, with a sidebar saying something along the lines of 'These were going to be revealed as a new strain of Zygon, but the comic was cut short before that could be incorporated. As the actual in-universe narrative never got to the twist and simply presented them as a new threat, we've opted to present them in such a way.'

DWM COMICS
The Toymaker's Mirror (Endgame)
Cirvello's Cauldron/Icarus Rising, maybe a stats for the alternate universe Daleks (The Keep/Fire and Brimstone)
Varney/Vampire Monkeys/Cucurbite (Tooth and Claw) [Cucurbites also appear in that recent Ninth Doctor DWM comic, can anyone who's read that tell me if there's any new lore/information based around them, other than 'They were active in the Dark Times, something the Doctor would later encounter in his Ninth incarnation']
The Elysian Chapter (The Final Chapter)
Donald Stark (The Fallen)
Leighton Woodrow (The Fallen, The Flood)
Gaijin (The Road to Hell)
Paradost (The Glorious Dead)
Blueberry House (The Autonomy Bug)
Susini/The Torajenn, Frida Kahlo/Diego Rivera (The Way of All Flesh)
Bish's Bar (Where Nobody Knows Your Name)
The Morgs (Doctor Who and the Nightmare Game)
Spring-Heeled Jack (The Curious Tale of Spring-Heeled Jack)
Darbodia (The Land of Happy Endings) [Including a sidebar pointing out 'this was all a dream, but if your own game isn't shy of a whimsical tone you may wish to use this as if it's not. Or you may wish to have this location's whimsical tone as the characters actually travelling to some other, dreamlike realm.']
Windigo (Bad Blood)
Hippocrates Base/Zeronites (Sins of The Fathers)

[Siskoid]

For the Body Politic, I already have an entry on the Overseers on the go.

[Siskoid]

By the way, @plentyofmalk, an easy trick for combining entries is to make them Locations, in which you can drop native characters, creatures and technology.

[Siskoid]

Another way to expand on a rather brief entry is to add an Adventure Seed at the end.

With comics, it's also often possible to just add an extra panel of art, which takes up space.

Hope these tips help.

[misterharry]

Jun 4, 2021 18:10:22 GMT drinkplentyofmalk said:

Cirvello's Cauldron/Icarus Rising, maybe a stats for the alternate universe Daleks (The Keep/Fire and Brimstone)
Varney/Vampire Monkeys/Cucurbite (Tooth and Claw) [Cucurbites also appear in that recent Ninth Doctor DWM comic, can anyone who's read that tell me if there's any new lore/information based around them, other than 'They were active in the Dark Times, something the Doctor would later encounter in his Ninth incarnation']

It would probably be best to save the Cucurbites for the 9th Doctor sourcebook, as that one will be a much shorter volume than this.

[drinkplentyofmalk]

Jun 4, 2021 18:50:41 GMT Siskoid said:

By the way, @plentyofmalk, an easy trick for combining entries is to make them Locations, in which you can drop native characters, creatures and technology.

Thanks for the advice - I've actually already written a small handful of writeups for the Sixth Doctor addendum (stuff from the two Video Games he's starred in, those Choose your own Adventure books and Short Trips, I'm proud to say that I excel at turning extremely minor things into full-fledged writeups), enough that I believe it'd be a bit inconvenient for both of us if I just sent the files and images over batch by batch. 

I hope it wouldn't be an issue if I made a small google drive folder for my writeups? Naturally, each book would be it's own sub-folder and have a small Directory word document listing what the entries are and which 'batch' each is in. I'm probably not doing a great job of articulating this: I'll get to it in a day or two and email you the link. (Of course if something else is more convenient to you/I need to make adjustments to my organisation, I'll absolutely do so.)

[Siskoid]

Yes you can do that if it works better for you. Since you're working on different volumes at once, it might even be easier to navigate than emails.

[misterharry]

Time for a progress update on this one, as I'm just putting the finishing touches on the entries for the final novel in the EDAs range. Here's what I've now completed in addition to the last list I posted above:

EIGHTH DOCTOR ADVENTURES (BBC NOVELS):

The Book of the Still – The Unnoticed, Location/Lebenswelt, Location/Antimasque, Gadget/The Book of the Still
The Crooked World – Location/The Crooked World
History 101 – Eric Blair, Sasha, The Absolute, Location/The Bombing of Guernica
Camera Obscura – Octave, Nathaniel Chiltern, The Angel-Maker, George Williamson, Gadget/Temporal Interferometry Machine
Time Zero – Trix Macmillan, Maxwell Curtis, Location/The Naryshkin Institute
The Infinity Race – The Warlocks of Demigest, Location/Demigest, Location/Selonart
The Domino Effect – Dee, Location/The Oracle Timeline
Reckless Engineering – Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Jared Malahyde, Eternines, Location/The Cleansed Earth, Gadget/The Utopian Engine
The Last Resort - Jack Kowaczski, Good Times Inc
Timeless – Chloe & Jamais, Erasmus, Kalicum
Emotional Chemistry – Colonel Grigoriy Bugayev, Aphrodite Diamante, Dusha, Razum Kinzhal, Vladimir Garudin
Sometime Never… - The Council of Eight, Zezanne, Location/The Vortex Palace, Gadget/Vortex Gun & Star-Killer
Halflife – Madame Xing, The Makers II, Location/Espero
The Tomorrow Windows – Charlton Mackerel, Martin of Frantige Two, The Vorshagg, The Micron, Location/Shardybarn, Location/Valuensis, Gadget/The Tomorrow Windows
The Sleep of Reason – The Sholem-Luz, Location/The Retreat
The Deadstone Memorial – Old Man Crawley
To the Slaughter – Aristotle Halcyon, Arnauld Klimt, Falsh Industries, Gadget/Halcytone
The Gallifrey Chronicles – Ulysses, Saldaamir & Larna; Marnal, The Vore, Rachel Rowley

@Siskoid - I'll send the above to you in a few days, once I'm happy with them.

[Cyberlord]

Jun 3, 2021 16:38:58 GMT misterharry said:

War of the Daleks – Dalek Variants (Spider Daleks, Striders, Marine Daleks), Sidebar/The Dalek Continuity Controversy

What is the "The Dalek Continuity Controversy"? I got into Doctor Who when Netflix, Hulu and Amazon Prime were the only major streaming services available and all of my extracanonical knowledge comes from reference books I owned back in the day or trivia on the Wiki, so some controversies of the past (like the UNIT dating controversy) I'm not aware of until I either look up information about a TV serial I just watched on the Wiki, a good faith Doctor Who critic on Youtube like Mr. Tardis, Josh Snares, or DAVIS mentions it, or if it's featured in the supplements this site puts out.

I tried searching it on Google and the only results I got were either the discrepancies of their origin from their self-titled debut episode (and possibly The Daleks Chronicles comic) and the one that became their definitive origin story in Genesis of the Daleks or how the people on present day earth (on the sliding timescale of when those episodes aired) keep forgetting about the various times the Daleks invaded or attacked earth (this was in the lead up to Revolution of the Daleks )

[Catsmate]

Oct 16, 2021 23:09:53 GMT Cyberlord said:

Jun 3, 2021 16:38:58 GMT misterharry said:

War of the Daleks – Dalek Variants (Spider Daleks, Striders, Marine Daleks), Sidebar/The Dalek Continuity Controversy

What is the "The Dalek Continuity Controversy"? I got into Doctor Who when Netflix, Hulu and Amazon Prime were the only major streaming services available and all of my extracanonical knowledge comes from reference books I owned back in the day or trivia on the Wiki, so some controversies of the past (like the UNIT dating controversy) I'm not aware of until I either look up information about a TV serial I just watched on the Wiki, a good faith Doctor Who critic on Youtube like Mr. Tardis, Josh Snares, or DAVIS mentions it, or if it's featured in the supplements this site puts out.

I tried searching it on Google and the only results I got were either the discrepancies of their origin from their self-titled debut episode (and possibly The Daleks Chronicles comic) and the one that became their definitive origin story in Genesis of the Daleks or how the people on present day earth (on the sliding timescale of when those episodes aired) keep forgetting about the various times the Daleks invaded or attacked earth (this was in the lead up to Revolution of the Daleks )

When John Peel wrote War of the Daleks back in '97 he attempted to reconcile all the televised Dalek stories and establish a single coherent continuity. This involved retconning the Dalek-Movellan war as being faked by the Daleks to deceive Davros, the Destruction of Skaro in Remembrance of the Daleks not actually being Skaro but a faked duplicate (rewriting Destiny) so it could be intact for the events of the telemovie.
Fans either love it or hate it. Mostly the latter. Much of the responsibility falls (as usual) to Terry Nation.

[misterharry]

Oct 16, 2021 23:09:53 GMT Cyberlord said:

Jun 3, 2021 16:38:58 GMT misterharry said:

War of the Daleks – Dalek Variants (Spider Daleks, Striders, Marine Daleks), Sidebar/The Dalek Continuity Controversy

What is the "The Dalek Continuity Controversy"? I got into Doctor Who when Netflix, Hulu and Amazon Prime were the only major streaming services available and all of my extracanonical knowledge comes from reference books I owned back in the day or trivia on the Wiki, so some controversies of the past (like the UNIT dating controversy) I'm not aware of until I either look up information about a TV serial I just watched on the Wiki, a good faith Doctor Who critic on Youtube like Mr. Tardis, Josh Snares, or DAVIS mentions it, or if it's featured in the supplements this site puts out.

I tried searching it on Google and the only results I got were either the discrepancies of their origin from their self-titled debut episode (and possibly The Daleks Chronicles comic) and the one that became their definitive origin story in Genesis of the Daleks or how the people on present day earth (on the sliding timescale of when those episodes aired) keep forgetting about the various times the Daleks invaded or attacked earth (this was in the lead up to Revolution of the Daleks )

War of the Daleks presents a ridiculous retcon of Dalek history, particularly that established from Destiny of the Daleks onwards. My take on it is that Terry Nation didn't like what happened to the Daleks in the 1980s, with them being defeated by the Movellans and then Skaro being destroyed. John Peel was a friend of Nation's (or knew him well enough to write several Dalek novels and novelisations). So he wrote War to retcon what we had been told on screen. The Movellans didn't defeat the Daleks; they were Dalek creations used to fool Davros. Skaro wasn't destroyed; it was a decoy planet dressed to look like Skaro.

Frankly, it's ludicrous and unnecessary and makes the 1980s Dalek stories pretty much redundant. But it's still part of the expanded universe continuity, so we needed to include it somehow. Without giving too much away about the sourcebook, the sidebar has been written in a (hopefully) humorous way which sides towards what the Doctor is told in War of the Daleks being a pack of lies, while leaving the door slightly open for those who prefer it to be true.

The retcon is discussed in more detail on these two reference sites:

TARDIS Data Core - War of the Daleks
The Discontinuity Guide - War of the Daleks

In both cases, scroll down towards the bottom of the page.

[Cyberlord]

Oct 16, 2021 23:29:21 GMT Catsmate said:

When John Peel wrote War of the Daleks back in '97 he attempted to reconcile all the televised Dalek stories and establish a single coherent continuity. This involved retconning the Dalek-Movellan war as being faked by the Daleks to deceive Davros, the Destruction of Skaro in Remembrance of the Daleks not actually being Skaro but a faked duplicate (rewriting Destiny) so it could be intact for the events of the telemovie.
Fans either love it or hate it. Mostly the latter. Much of the responsibility falls (as usual) to Terry Nation.

Oct 17, 2021 9:38:25 GMT misterharry said:

War of the Daleks presents a ridiculous retcon of Dalek history, particularly that established from Destiny of the Daleks onwards. My take on it is that Terry Nation didn't like what happened to the Daleks in the 1980s, with them being defeated by the Movellans and then Skaro being destroyed. John Peel was a friend of Nation's (or knew him well enough to write several Dalek novels and novelisations). So he wrote War to retcon what we had been told on screen. The Movellans didn't defeat the Daleks; they were Dalek creations used to fool Davros. Skaro wasn't destroyed; it was a decoy planet dressed to look like Skaro.

Frankly, it's ludicrous and unnecessary and makes the 1980s Dalek stories pretty much redundant. But it's still part of the expanded universe continuity, so we needed to include it somehow. Without giving too much away about the sourcebook, the sidebar has been written in a (hopefully) humorous way which sides towards what the Doctor is told in War of the Daleks being a pack of lies, while leaving the door slightly open for those who prefer it to be true.

The retcon is discussed in more detail on these two reference sites:

TARDIS Data Core - War of the Daleks
The Discontinuity Guide - War of the Daleks

In both cases, scroll down towards the bottom of the page.

Also going through both links, there is no mention of the fact that the Daleks created a biological weapon that specifically targets them and even if it was used as a trick, it still affected Davros at the end of Resurrection. If the Time Lords wanted to they could have sent another Time Lord to retrieve the canisters they left lying around their base to use against them in future.

[Catsmate]

Oct 20, 2021 5:43:07 GMT Cyberlord said:

Oct 16, 2021 23:29:21 GMT Catsmate said:

When John Peel wrote War of the Daleks back in '97 he attempted to reconcile all the televised Dalek stories and establish a single coherent continuity. This involved retconning the Dalek-Movellan war as being faked by the Daleks to deceive Davros, the Destruction of Skaro in Remembrance of the Daleks not actually being Skaro but a faked duplicate (rewriting Destiny) so it could be intact for the events of the telemovie.
Fans either love it or hate it. Mostly the latter. Much of the responsibility falls (as usual) to Terry Nation.

Oct 17, 2021 9:38:25 GMT misterharry said:

War of the Daleks presents a ridiculous retcon of Dalek history, particularly that established from Destiny of the Daleks onwards. My take on it is that Terry Nation didn't like what happened to the Daleks in the 1980s, with them being defeated by the Movellans and then Skaro being destroyed. John Peel was a friend of Nation's (or knew him well enough to write several Dalek novels and novelisations). So he wrote War to retcon what we had been told on screen. The Movellans didn't defeat the Daleks; they were Dalek creations used to fool Davros. Skaro wasn't destroyed; it was a decoy planet dressed to look like Skaro.

Frankly, it's ludicrous and unnecessary and makes the 1980s Dalek stories pretty much redundant. But it's still part of the expanded universe continuity, so we needed to include it somehow. Without giving too much away about the sourcebook, the sidebar has been written in a (hopefully) humorous way which sides towards what the Doctor is told in War of the Daleks being a pack of lies, while leaving the door slightly open for those who prefer it to be true.

The retcon is discussed in more detail on these two reference sites:

TARDIS Data Core - War of the Daleks
The Discontinuity Guide - War of the Daleks

In both cases, scroll down towards the bottom of the page.

Also going through both links, there is no mention of the fact that the Daleks created a biological weapon that specifically targets them and even if it was used as a trick, it still affected Davros at the end of Resurrection. If the Time Lords wanted to they could have sent another Time Lord to retrieve the canisters they left lying around their base to use against them in future.

IIRR that viral weapon was not addressed at all.

[misterharry]

Oct 20, 2021 5:43:07 GMT Cyberlord said:

Also going through both links, there is no mention of the fact that the Daleks created a biological weapon that specifically targets them and even if it was used as a trick, it still affected Davros at the end of Resurrection. If the Time Lords wanted to they could have sent another Time Lord to retrieve the canisters they left lying around their base to use against them in future.

As the Movellans were part of the trick, it can be assumed that the virus was too. Quite why the Daleks went ahead and created it is a mystery. And yes, the Time Lords could have retrieved it to use in the Last Great Time War. As with much of the retcon, much of it just doesn't make much sense.

It's far simpler to believe that the entire retcon was a lie told to the Doctor by the Dalek Prime in order to confuse him. To believe otherwise creates too many convoluted and unnecessary problems - both for continuity and for the Daleks themselves!

[drinkplentyofmalk]

This is an extremely minor concern in the grand scheme of things, but as this'll be the first EU Sourcebook made post-Second Edition's release, maybe it'd be worth adding some kind of small blurb about 'this sourcebook uses the first edition rules/stats of the Doctor Who RPG despite later editions being available' etc etc?
It could be challenging to find a place for it to fit and it'd mostly just be for the sake of minor clarity (admittedly I can't see too many people new to second ed finding this project and not being able to understand it's the old ed immediately) but I felt it was worth bringing up as a minor conversation piece.

[Siskoid]

There's a line about it in the introduction.

[Cyberlord]

Sorry to ask this, but is volume 1 for the 8th Doctor still coming out? I'm just wondering since there hasn't been any activity on this or the audio era thread since November and September 2021 respectively.

[misterharry]

May 2, 2022 19:45:27 GMT Cyberlord said:

Sorry to ask this, but is volume 1 for the 8th Doctor still coming out? I'm just wondering since there hasn't been any activity on this or the audio era thread since November and September 2021 respectively.

Fear ye not! The work of the EU project team is much like the paddling of a swan - there's not much going on above the waterline, but lots of activity below the surface!

The entries for Volume 1 (novels) were completed some time ago, but real life has intervened to prevent the finalisation of this one so far. But never fear, it will be released in due course and is well worth the wait - look out for Faction Paradox, Sabbath, Fitz Kreiner, Compassion and much, much more.

In the meantime, writing on Volume 2 (audios) continues apace - my estimate is that we're between a third and half the way through it. There's some great stuff in this one: Zagreus, the Eleven, Lucie Bleedin' Miller, Charley Pollard...

In summary, any rumours of the death of the EU project are greatly exaggerated.

[grinch]

Greatly looking forward to these two volumes. Sounds like they’re going to be something really special.

[Catsmate]

May 3, 2022 8:09:24 GMT misterharry said:

May 2, 2022 19:45:27 GMT Cyberlord said:

Sorry to ask this, but is volume 1 for the 8th Doctor still coming out? I'm just wondering since there hasn't been any activity on this or the audio era thread since November and September 2021 respectively.

Fear ye not! The work of the EU project team is much like the paddling of a swan - there's not much going on above the waterline, but lots of activity below the surface!

The entries for Volume 1 (novels) were completed some time ago, but real life has intervened to prevent the finalisation of this one so far. But never fear, it will be released in due course and is well worth the wait - look out for Faction Paradox, Sabbath, Fitz Kreiner, Compassion and much, much more.

In the meantime, writing on Volume 2 (audios) continues apace - my estimate is that we're between a third and half the way through it. There's some great stuff in this one: Zagreus, the Eleven, Lucie Bleedin' Miller, Charley Pollard...

In summary, any rumours of the death of the EU project are greatly exaggerated.

Excellent! Though an interesting metaphor, I was pecked by a swan today......

[drinkplentyofmalk]

As someone who's been assisting with covering a lot of the Eighth Doctor material, I can reiterate what Misterharry just said. I can also whet your appetites by confirming that on top of Misterharry's entries from every single EDA novel (SO much amazing creative stuff there!) I've helped with covering for the comics; while Misterharry has covered the big ticket entries from them (Izzy, Destrii, it's version of the Master, etc) I'm rather proud to note that my own efforts have filled in the gaps, meaning that the sourcebook will have dozens of entries covering every single story from the Eighth Doctor's DWM run!

(Well, discounting two or three one-shots that didn't have much material )