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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Aug 27, 2011 19:55:48 GMT
Y'know... I expected a bit more Hitler.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Aug 27, 2011 19:59:13 GMT
Instead we got about ten times more of everything else imaginable. Fair trade  |
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sutekh
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 64
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Post by sutekh on Aug 28, 2011 3:04:25 GMT
It was enjoyable. Although with all of the timey-wimey stuff in the episode, it occurs to me that the perfect plot for the 50th anniversary would be to let the Doctor and River have a child - who turns out to be the mother or father of Susan. The series could come full circle at that point - especially if the eleventh Doctor drops the infant Susan back with the first Doctor. The eleventh Doctor would have advance knowledge that Susan would help to launch him on his adventures in the first place. Or maybe I'm just insane  . (Interesting...the limits on the number of regenerations came up again. Do we get the feeling that Moffat is thinking about this topic?) |
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Post by cliffordjones on Aug 28, 2011 4:41:40 GMT
I thought that it was amazing. A perfect episode. Definitely worth waiting for.
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Post by zebaroth on Aug 28, 2011 4:48:48 GMT
me and my dad were thinking that river song's regenerations went to the doctor giving him him a new cycle of lives
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Post by cliffordjones on Aug 28, 2011 4:52:13 GMT
... I mean Hitler, Rory punching Hitler, Rory putting Hitler in a cupboard, a robot spaceship with a miniaturized crew, Amelia Pond, regenerating Mel, eeevil River, hologram guilt, "look for clues...", the Tardis teaches River how to pilot her, oh so that's why she couldn't regenerate, fishfingers and custard, all the other brilliant stuff...
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stahlman
3rd Incarnation
Doctor, stop wasting my time, will you?
Posts: 222
Favourite Doctors: second,third,fourth
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Post by stahlman on Aug 28, 2011 6:01:46 GMT
All smoke and mirrors-yearning for a storyline with a saner pace.
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Post by cliffordjones on Aug 28, 2011 7:15:35 GMT
Ah yes the old grumpy-old-man-things-ain't-what-they-used-to-be angle. Bring back Tom Baker eh? Those were the days! It's all style-over-substance now. YAAAAWWWN.. oh, excuse me, I was nearly bored to death by the predictability  From The Door In Time blog: Trans-time police a cross between Strontium Dog and The Numbskulls. The Numbskulls reference alone has to make this one of the greatest Who episodes ever.  ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by cliffordjones on Aug 28, 2011 7:31:06 GMT
Also handgun switched for banana... cue hilarity |
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Post by da professor on Aug 28, 2011 7:33:04 GMT
Let's see... Melody starts with 12, used 2 herself and a third to bring the Doctor back, leaving 9. Add those 9 to the 2 the Doctor has left of his own gives another 11 Doctors... if he can survive another date with Melody at a certain lake in 2011.
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Post by Kit on Aug 28, 2011 8:01:52 GMT
Also handgun switched for banana... cue hilarity It worked on Jack Harkness too |
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Post by Kit on Aug 28, 2011 8:04:45 GMT
Oh my. Almost nothing went as I expected it to. Lots of my theories about things were blown away this episode.
i want a sonic cane prop. I'm not sure about the new green jacket. I havent a clue why he was in the tux.
But the TARDIS voice interface was awesome.
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Post by cliffordjones on Aug 28, 2011 8:23:43 GMT
Also "I'm trapped inside a giant robot version of my wife... really have to try not to see this as a metaphor..." or something like that. Ha Ha! Awesome  |
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Post by Kit on Aug 28, 2011 9:02:48 GMT
Its definitely an episode I need to watch again. Soon.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Aug 28, 2011 12:06:31 GMT
And again and again and again.... just to make sure nothing was missed.
Anyway, here's thought I had just earlier. Mels/River tries to kill the Doctor before his apparent time (at the amusingly named Lake Silencio!) - she tries to kill (what she has been told is) a really bad person before his time - much like the classic time travel trope of killing Hitler before he does anything bad, in fact....
Oh, and why randomly turn up in 1938 Berlin where Hitler is, apparently just to satisfy the episode title? Because Mels/River, Child Of The TARDIS, kinda said that was where she wanted to go....
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Post by cliffordjones on Aug 28, 2011 13:34:34 GMT
Oh yes and The Doctor promising to marry Mel if she doesn't die. I'm not sure if there was a single line of dialogue in the whole episode that actually only had one layer of meaning. So I'm thinking The Doctor went off somewhere during his 31 minutes. Presumably he went off dancing since he was wearing his tux. A wedding maybe? I have yet to stop grinning ;D I'm actually on some kind of Who-high ;D |
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stahlman
3rd Incarnation
Doctor, stop wasting my time, will you?
Posts: 222
Favourite Doctors: second,third,fourth
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Post by stahlman on Aug 28, 2011 16:54:39 GMT
Y'see in the good old days Billy Hartnell told youngsters off for using words like 'Fab (when he remembered his lines') ,Daleks didn't look like hunchbacks and there was definitely no snogging.
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Post by imajica on Aug 28, 2011 18:38:46 GMT
First pass through, I didn't like this episode. In fact by the end of it I was sick of the whole River Song story arc. Can we just finish it this series and move on? Having to explain who/how/why/when/etc. to the kids was getting tiresome.
Second pass through (at a much quieter time and with more wine on board), it manages to achieve a hell of a lot in 45 minutes. No line was a throwaway, no moment didn't have meaning or importance. It was a far deeper episode than seemed at first glance.
One question... Did Melody/River use 2 or 3 regenerations becoming River? It seems more than plausible, given the timey-wimey-interconnectedness-of-all-things nature of the River Song arc that the woman who kidnapped Amy to engineer Melody into the Anti-Doctor could well be Melody herself, in another regeneration. After all, we don't know who she became after her regeneration in New York. Or is that covered somewhere that I missed?
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Post by Rel Fexive on Aug 28, 2011 19:20:55 GMT
After New York I think she became Mels, and then maybe got or stayed young to infiltrate Amy's life. I think she specifically counts out the number of times, and you've seen it more recently than me - can't you tell us? |
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Post by da professor on Aug 29, 2011 8:44:44 GMT
As she was beginning to regenerate, she said something about last time being in New York, which is where she was in the one we saw at the end of Day Of the Moon. As far as we know, that was regeneration 1, so the one from Mels to River looks like no.2
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Post by CharlieBananas on Aug 30, 2011 8:55:15 GMT
Great episode, but I'm a little bugged by the fact that the little girl who regenerates in 1969, is Mels in the 1990's and ages as a normal human. At some point she has to be lifted out of time and dropped back to the 1990's, can't wait to see how it plays out from here.
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Post by imajica on Aug 30, 2011 12:07:00 GMT
Great episode, but I'm a little bugged by the fact that the little girl who regenerates in 1969, is Mels in the 1990's and ages as a normal human. At some point she has to be lifted out of time and dropped back to the 1990's, can't wait to see how it plays out from here. Exactly. I still reckon there's a regeneration unaccounted for - or there's one yet to come that no-one counted on. After the disappointment of the mid-season cliffhanger (which still seems massively out of character for The Doctor), my faith in Mr Moffat is returning. |
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Post by Rel Fexive on Aug 30, 2011 18:58:31 GMT
Great episode, but I'm a little bugged by the fact that the little girl who regenerates in 1969, is Mels in the 1990's and ages as a normal human. At some point she has to be lifted out of time and dropped back to the 1990's, can't wait to see how it plays out from here. Not necessarily. If Melody/River could consider slipping her age backwards as she grew older just to freak people out, then Melody/Mels - after regenerating from Melody/Girl in 1969 - could've lived for 20+ years and then 'youthed' herself back to being a kid again in the 1990s to join up with her parents-to-be. It would have to be that way, as it would be much easier to find them as an adult and then revert to youth than to try doing it as a kid stuck at about age ten for twenty years. |
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Post by da professor on Aug 31, 2011 10:10:51 GMT
Great episode, but I'm a little bugged by the fact that the little girl who regenerates in 1969, is Mels in the 1990's and ages as a normal human. At some point she has to be lifted out of time and dropped back to the 1990's, can't wait to see how it plays out from here. Not necessarily. If Melody/River could consider slipping her age backwards as she grew older just to freak people out, then Melody/Mels - after regenerating from Melody/Girl in 1969 - could've lived for 20+ years and then 'youthed' herself back to being a kid again in the 1990s to join up with her parents-to-be. It would have to be that way, as it would be much easier to find them as an adult and then revert to youth than to try doing it as a kid stuck at about age ten for twenty years. ...and before youthening herself, Melody/Mels could have pretended to be her own mum to enroll her youthened self at the village school. |
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Post by cliffordjones on Sept 2, 2011 19:07:38 GMT
Just finished my second viewing and, yes, definitely awesome. I actually shouted out 'hooray!' at one point.
Some thoughts: some people have been saying that the title was misleading and there wasn't a lot of Hitler. Personally I'm quite glad that there wasn't as I think the whole Nazi thing is maybe a little heavy duty for Who to tackle head on (obliquely via fascist pepperpots is obviously fine). Also, the fact that the episode went off at a tangent was, for me, a big part of what made it enjoyable. I'm sure that somewhere else on these boards someone was talking about episode titles and about how they can contain spoilers. The Dalek Invasion of Earth, for example, isn't exactly dripping with ambiguity. So, yeah, I'm quite happy to have been blindsided, it added to the fun.
Did I mention that this episode was awesome!
Rory: miniaturization ray.
Amy: how would you know that?
Rory: well, there was a ray and we were miniaturized...
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Post by imajica on Sept 2, 2011 19:54:17 GMT
Rory: miniaturization ray. Amy: how would you know that? Rory: well, there was a ray and we were miniaturized... Yep, the dialogue was definitely on form. |
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Sept 3, 2011 2:27:08 GMT
Hey, I started this thread!
Bloody Rassilon, going back in time and naming things after himself... "Oh yes, this is... the thread of Rassilon! Started by Rassilon, definitely!"
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Post by Kit on Sept 20, 2011 20:49:11 GMT
I've been thinking.
The justice people say River killed the Doctor. and they want to punish her for that.
but...
their stated remit was punishing people who escaped punishment AND River is sentenced to the StormCage for killing someone.
so-justice guys being overzealous or an indication that River is punished in the StormCage for killing someone else?
And anyone else wonder why River doesnt seem to remember the events at Lake Silencio?
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Post by Rel Fexive on Sept 20, 2011 21:41:39 GMT
Two clear assumptions here.
1) That River actually did kill the Doctor. All we know is that their records say she did, which is not the same thing.
2) That Melody was in the spacesuit at lake.
Plenty of wiggle-room.
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Post by Curufea on Sept 21, 2011 1:04:52 GMT
And anyone else wonder why River doesnt seem to remember the events at Lake Silencio? This is the main reason I think she wasn't in the spacesuit. However River's memories may be retconned based on the fact that there are multiple writers and while they've been good - they haven't been 100% perfect in writing a character travelling backwards in time. So it could be writer error. |
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