The Doctor's Age - a chronology

[misterharry]

I was wanting to add this to the pinned thread over in the Q&A section, but I think that's locked.

Anyway, over on the Gallifrey Base forum there been a couple of threads on the subject of the Doctor's age recently, including one trying to capture all statements about it from the series. I've taken this and created the attached chronology of the Doctor's ages from the TV episodes plus books, audios, etc. I thought others might find it interesting and it may be of use to GMs. I can't take the credit for the work behind much of this (that goes to Ginger Prince on GB) but have added a few bits and pieces.

Apart from one or two blips, it looks as if the series has been fairly consistent give or take a decade or so. The 3rd Doctor's mention of "thousands of year" of experience is one of the problems, but not an insurmountable one. The New Series references to him being 900 in Aliens of London and working up from there is the major glitch, but that's been consistent within the confines of the New Series and can be explained by the 8th Doctor's various bouts of amnesia, deliberate lies and/or a timey-wimey Time War effect.

Please let me have any feedback, including any errors or omissions you spot. Thanks!


EDIT: The latest version of this file is available to download from here - I just can't find a way to remove the attachment to this thread!

A Chronology of the Doctor's Age

Attachments:

[Eryx]

Karma awarded for that. I doubt we'll ever know the truth though.

[Marnal]

Very very nice job! Though I noticed there a few the document missed. But its got a few I missed so I have no room to complain!

Thanks for sharing!!!

[misterharry]

Thanks for the comments. If I've missed anything, I really would appreciate feedback.

Here's an updated version. I've added various bits and pieces, including at what ages the Doctor first operated the TARDIS and when he left Gallifrey. I've also added the estimated life-spans for each of the incarnations - all I can say is that the 9th and 10th Doctors got the bum deal!

This is still a work in progess, so any contributions would be gratefully received!

EDITED: I've added some new information in the attachment.

Attachments:

[da professor]

While the Doctor did say he was 900 when he first met Rose, he also implied he'd been travelling for that long. Perhaps he realised how huge a number the 900 was and decided to lie and say that was his age to minimise the shock effect of admitting that he didn't start really travelling till he was 430 and as a consequence was actually 1330 at the time. It would bypass the need for a reboot, but would require ignoring the 600 years with amnesia during his 8th incarnation. All depends on what you count as canon.

[Marnal]

For what its worth the 2nd Doctor claims to be 500 years old at the end of Season 6B when the Time Lords decided it is time for his exile to begin.

What page of "Lungbarrow" states that the Doctor was 430 when he left Gallifrey?

IIRC the Doctor and Romana take a 33 year side trip during the Key To Time Season. They are in another universe but their not alseep or anything [indeed they are having adventures the whole time]. See the novel "Heart of TARDIS."

The following pages have all my notes on the Pre Unearthly Child dating...
www.curufea.com/rassilon/4_1_Nameday.xml
www.curufea.com/rassilon/4_2_Prydon.xml
www.curufea.com/rassilon/4_3_Time.xml
www.curufea.com/rassilon/4_4_Renegade.xml

Let me know if you have any questions.

[misterharry]

Aug 22, 2011 19:11:07 GMT Marnal said:

For what its worth the 2nd Doctor claims to be 500 years old at the end of Season 6B when the Time Lords decided it is time for his exile to begin.

What page of "Lungbarrow" states that the Doctor was 430 when he left Gallifrey?

IIRC the Doctor and Romana take a 33 year side trip during the Key To Time Season. They are in another universe but their not alseep or anything [indeed they are having adventures the whole time]. See the novel "Heart of TARDIS."

The following pages have all my notes on the Pre Unearthly Child dating...
www.curufea.com/rassilon/4_1_Nameday.xml
www.curufea.com/rassilon/4_2_Prydon.xml
www.curufea.com/rassilon/4_3_Time.xml
www.curufea.com/rassilon/4_4_Renegade.xml

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks for the comments. I'd completely forgotten about the 30 years of adventures in Heart of TARDIS.

With Lungbarrow, I'm afraid I haven't pinpointed the page that's mentioned on. In as many cases as possible, I've been going back to check the source, but in this case the info comes from the I Who entry for Lungbarrow.

Can I ask in which story the Doctor states his age as 500 at the end of Season 6B?

[misterharry]

Aug 22, 2011 19:11:07 GMT Marnal said:

What page of "Lungbarrow" states that the Doctor was 430 when he left Gallifrey?

Looking through the ebook version of Lungbarrow, I've been unable to come up with any reference to the Doctor leaving Gallifrey at 430. Maybe I Who have somehow calculated it from events in the story, but without reading it from cover to cover, I'm unsure. The book is clearly set 673 years after the Doctor left his family, but in the Author's Notes, Marc Platt expressly talks about 673 Gallifreyan years so that doesn't really help - unless anyone knows how many Gallifreyan years equal one Earth year?

Without further information, I'm reverting back to using Byzantium! to estimate the Doctor's age when he left.

[Marnal]

The 500 year old reference came from a comic book with Time Lord controled scarecrows. It was published around 1970 [give a or take couple of years].

The novels state that a Gallifreyan year is exactly the same as an Earth year.

Since Susan is only 16 in "Marco Polo" I tend to assume a significant side trip in the Pre-Unearthly Child era, where the Doctor lost Susan and spent decades finding her time zone again.

I tend to assume that the Time Destructor added some years to the Hartnell Doctor. And that the 3rd Doctor took a serious side trip or two after getting his new D-mat circuit in "The Three Doctors."

As for the 9th Doctor being 900 years old my CURRENT theory is that since the Doctor died at the begining of the Time War and was resurrected in The City of the Saved [if you view "The book of the War" as being part of continuity] then maybe he's just counting from when he was resurrected with a new body.

Alternately you age much slower while inside the TARDIS. After over 1000 years the amount of time the Doctor spent in the TARDIS could add up to a significant correction factor. Maybe he's finally taking that into account?

-Marnal Gate

[misterharry]

Aug 23, 2011 18:26:10 GMT Marnal said:

The 500 year old reference came from a comic book with Time Lord controled scarecrows. It was published around 1970 [give a or take couple of years].

Ahh, that'll be The Night Walkers, the final 2nd Doctor strip in TV Comic. I've not had the opportunity to read that one, as it's never been reprinted so far as I know.

The novels state that a Gallifreyan year is exactly the same as an Earth year.

Thanks, I didn't know that.

Since Susan is only 16 in "Marco Polo" I tend to assume a significant side trip in the Pre-Unearthly Child era, where the Doctor lost Susan and spent decades finding her time zone again.

Sorry to be extremely pedantic, but I think she was only 15 (Ping-Cho says she's in her 16th year, making her 15. Susan says "So am I!"). I thought I'd mention it in case it has a knock-on effect on anything on your website.

I tend to assume that the Time Destructor added some years to the Hartnell Doctor. And that the 3rd Doctor took a serious side trip or two after getting his new D-mat circuit in "The Three Doctors."

Not so sure about the former, but I'd certainly agree with the latter assumption.

As for the 9th Doctor being 900 years old my CURRENT theory is that since the Doctor died at the begining of the Time War and was resurrected in The City of the Saved [if you view "The book of the War" as being part of continuity] then maybe he's just counting from when he was resurrected with a new body.

Aren't only humans resurrected in the City of the Saved (it's years since I read it)? Or are you going with the Doctor being half-human?

Alternately you age much slower while inside the TARDIS. After over 1000 years the amount of time the Doctor spent in the TARDIS could add up to a significant correction factor. Maybe he's finally taking that into account?

-Marnal Gate

Good thinking. Thanks for all the comments and info!

[misterharry]

I've updated the document with various additional bits and pieces of info, and extended it to cover stuff about Time Lord longevity and regenerations.

This is probably the final version I'll do unless any new info comes to light.

Attachments:

[Marnal]

Good point with the Susan thing. I was going from memory.

My Time Destructor theory is just a bit of rubbish to fix things. Feel free to disreguard it.

"The Book of the War" talks about a half human half Time Lord male who was resurrected in the City and runs around doing all sorts of Doctor-ish like saving and empowering of people stuff. So yeah, they are going with the half-human thing. [IIRC you can have less then 0.1% of human DNA and still qualify for resurrection].

Thanks for the updated document!

[misterharry]

I've now updated this document with additional info from the second half of Series 6.

Attachments:

[Marnal]

Thanks for the update!!!

[misterharry]

An updated version is now available to download:

www.gamefront.com/files/user/misterharry

There are a few additional entries, mainly from recent spin-off releases, plus one or two amendements.

[misterharry]

I've updated this to the end of Series 7A, including a bit of tidying up, a few additions from books and audios, and one or two corrections:

www.mediafire.com/?sb7orlqtbse18xb,zey77kufnb7nihc,qdnv3946y9i3tr6,4uyweejbhkjq45q,13ezi26xon8xe6h,x11r9534r498o89,a1xn3q5o18sn55o,7nn3g4veaup1t45,zh1r10s8h36q00y,2wdbioph3i753sn,v8r2frbc238lcie,vlbdy1c2m58go2y,794bmmsx0xiy1q1,7gegauigm1v17hz,aedne0se20oa4bp,watnbb2699l2fm3

[Marnal]

Thanks!!

Awesome work - as always!

[misterharry]

I've updated my chronology of the Doctor's age, downloadable from here:

www.mediafire.com/folder/2fd5hs6v5ehbhuq,q9kk203gea6i5kr,s8fxlpzyzqqzbrm,61f0s46e24d9dmf,5p2kjxwro05vren,cjrveyw98c1ghum,n4xxmhn269aq0rc,a1xn3q5o18sn55o,7nn3g4veaup1t45,z24d58a5u7ja2mk,zh1r10s8h36q00y,2wdbioph3i753sn,v8r2frbc238lcie,794bmmsx0xiy1q1,7gegauigm1v17hz,aedne0se20oa4bp,tbddt55iv11c0x8/shared

There are a few new entries from recent stories, but the main additions come from scouring the older novels and audios.

I've also made one or two further corrections and provided separate text boxes covering Susan's and Romana's ages to make these clearer.

[Marnal]

Thanks! I've spent the last few weeks prepping a massive update to my Time Lord website, and this file is a wonderful way to double check that I haven't missed anything!

[Marnal]

Question: Where does the data that the Doctor is 813 in Cold Fusion come from? I've looked and looked and can't find any reference to it.

[chickenpaddy]

Wow! Very encycopedic. It looks like you've put a lot of work into it.

There's only one thing that bugs me about it (it's a personal thing, so don't worry). I never really considered any non-televised adventures to be canon. There's always too much conflict and not a little weirdness that gets tossed in with the novels and audio books. They still make for entertaining adventures, but I have trouble squeezing it in to the TV universe's canon.

Like I said, it's a personal issue and you should be congratulated on all the painstaking research to come up with such a comprehensive list.

[Marnal]

I have the same problems when I try to consider "Torchwood" or any episode with River Song to be part of continuity.

I've found the best thing to do is just to accept that some parts of Doctor Who will be too silly for you (or me) to handle, and move on.

- Marnal

[misterharry]

Jan 2, 2013 23:03:46 GMT Marnal said:

Question: Where does the data that the Doctor is 813 in Cold Fusion come from? I've looked and looked and can't find any reference to it.

That's a very good question and I'm not sure that I've got a very good answer for you. I think that the Cold Fusion reference was on my original timeline back in mid-2011, so I'm struggling to remember. I've flicked through the novel but haven't been able to locate it. It is listed in the TARDIS Index File under the entry on "The Doctor's age", so it's possible I may have just taken it from that and not checked the source:

tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Doctor's_age

However, the TARDIS Index File's entry on Cold Fusion itself does not mention it:

tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Doctor's_age

and neither does the Discontinuity Guide:

www.whoniverse.net/discontinuity/MA29.php

I'm therefore removing this from the chronology until I'm able to re-read the book myself to check whether there is any reference to the Doctor's age.

Thanks for the heads up on this one - a corrected file is now available (under the revised title of "A Chronology of the Doctor's Age"):


A Chronology of the Doctor's Age

[misterharry]

Jan 3, 2013 3:04:37 GMT chickenpaddy said:

Wow! Very encycopedic. It looks like you've put a lot of work into it.

There's only one thing that bugs me about it (it's a personal thing, so don't worry). I never really considered any non-televised adventures to be canon. There's always too much conflict and not a little weirdness that gets tossed in with the novels and audio books. They still make for entertaining adventures, but I have trouble squeezing it in to the TV universe's canon.

Like I said, it's a personal issue and you should be congratulated on all the painstaking research to come up with such a comprehensive list.

Thanks. Yes, I fully understand the issue with non-TV spin-offs. My own personal canon is whatever story I happen to be watching, reading or listening to at the time, and I have a similar view about continuity. There's just so much in the way of Doctor Who fiction in various media these days that it's an impossible task to reconcile it all. I guess an easy explanation would involve timey-wimeyness, but I tend not to think about it too much - which kind of contradicts me putting this chronology together in the first place!

[misterharry]

An updated file is now available for download:

Mister Harry's DWAITAS Files

[misterharry]

Oct 26, 2013 15:48:52 GMT misterharry said:

An updated file is now available for download:

Mister Harry's DWAITAS Files

I've updated this to include up to The Time of the Doctor.

[Marnal]

Were there any other entries added beside the ones for "The Time of the Doctor"?

Also as a bit of an update - "Tales of Trenzalore: The Eleventh Doctor's Last Stand" reveals that the TOTAL time the Doctor spent on Trenzalore was 900 years. They stuck the relevant data right on page (http://www.eburypublishing.co.uk/editions/9781448142606)

Thanks for keeping this up-to-date. At some point (after I'm done with the update I'm currently working on) I'm going to have to sift all my notes out of the internet for your list.

[misterharry]

Jan 24, 2014 15:45:13 GMT misterharry said:

Thanks - I hadn't seen that. I'll add the info to the file and post a new one tonight.

Updated file now available:

misterharry's DWAITAS files

[Marnal]

Were there any other entries updated beside the ones for "The Time of the Doctor"?
[I'm trying to figure out if I have to go through the whole thing looking for new stuff or not] :-)

[misterharry]

Jan 25, 2014 17:48:46 GMT Marnal said:

Were there any other entries updated beside the ones for "The Time of the Doctor"?
[I'm trying to figure out if I have to go through the whole thing looking for new stuff or not] :-)

Bizarre, I could've sworn I'd replied to you yesterday! Guess I didn't press the final button to post it at the end.

I can't be 100% certain now which entries I've added since the previous version (which was after The Day of the Doctor). But the following are the most recent additions, though some of these might have made it into the previous version:

The Doctor: His Lives and Times (to confirm the age at which the Doctor left Gallifrey)
The Mega
The Assassination Games
So Vile a Sin
Spore
The Stone Rose
Nothing O'clock
The Birthday Boy
The Time of the Doctor
and now Tales of Trenzalore

I've also amended my comments on The Daleks' Master Plan, The Tomb of the Cybermen and Survival of the Fittest at some point in the last couple of months.

In the section of Time Lord longevity, I've also added entries for Trial of the Valeyard and The Time of the Doctor.