Rassilon
Administrator
Grand Administrator
Posts: 751
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Post by Rassilon on Apr 17, 2011 15:20:10 GMT
What did you think?
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Post by Eryx on Jun 4, 2011 19:17:44 GMT
Absolutely awesome! Wasn't expecting that outcome at all.
Shame about a 2-3 month break now though.
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Post by doctorflea on Jun 4, 2011 19:22:33 GMT
Eryx - notice in your footer: "...and the RIVERS dream... and cities made of SONG". Just how long has The Grand Moff been working on this story? ;-D
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Eternally Lost Zeppo
3rd Incarnation
The Lonely God
Posts: 246
Favourite Doctors: David Tennant, Matt Smith, Peter Davidson
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Post by Eternally Lost Zeppo on Jun 4, 2011 19:44:31 GMT
Overall, I enjoyed the episode, but the revelation that River Song was Amy's daughter...really? I'm just a little bit very disappointed that the answer to such a major question ended up being something that parts of the fandom correctly guessed was the case months ago.
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Post by Eryx on Jun 4, 2011 20:56:05 GMT
Eryx - notice in your footer: "...and the RIVERS dream... and cities made of SONG". Just how long has The Grand Moff been working on this story? ;-D I hadn't noticed. Wouldn't it be wonderful if that wasn't just pure coincidence? Overall, I enjoyed the episode, but the revelation that River Song was Amy's daughter...really? I'm just a little bit very disappointed that the answer to such a major question ended up being something that parts of the fandom correctly guessed was the case months ago. I was getting excited that River might turn out to be Susan what with all what wasn't being said. I would have prefered that but I wasn't disappointed about River.
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Jun 4, 2011 20:59:10 GMT
(Minor aside... why doesn't it translate Gallifreyan? What is the Doctor speaking? Doctor Who Confidential indicated that the Gallifreyan on the cot was the Doctor's name, so unshowable, but... yeah... Hmm.)
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jun 4, 2011 20:59:41 GMT
"Can anyone find my socks? They seem to have been blown off." - me
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Post by da professor on Jun 5, 2011 7:58:56 GMT
Overall, I enjoyed the episode, but the revelation that River Song was Amy's daughter...really? I'm just a little bit very disappointed that the answer to such a major question ended up being something that parts of the fandom correctly guessed was the case months ago. Doctor Who fandom is so large that parts of fandom are going to guess everything it's possible to guess. It's luck on the part of those who got this right, just as it was luck I got part of my theory right. It's also a major surprise to anyone who hadn't heard that piece of speculation, several people who did hear it and quite possibly one or two of those who guessed at the time and are now going "How did I get that?"...like I am with that bit of my theory.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jun 5, 2011 11:32:20 GMT
(Minor aside... why doesn't it translate Gallifreyan? What is the Doctor speaking? Doctor Who Confidential indicated that the Gallifreyan on the cot was the Doctor's name, so unshowable, but... yeah... Hmm.) See, I think this is easily answered, because it just confirms an idea I'd already used (or would have if it came up) when I first played my Time Lord character. Gallifreyan (or at least written Gallifreyan) is the one thing the TARDIS translation circuit won't translate. Why? Security. It keeps any old alien from learning the inner secrets of a TARDIS just by reading manuals or texts or console controls they might find. It lets them keep their secrets. It explains why the Doctor had to translate the scribbles on the Home Box, why it took the Doctor (who can speak Old High Gallifreyan, though not many do) to translate the message in Rassilon's tomb, and probably a number of other examples I can't recall just now. What does the Doctor speak? Most of the time, apparently English. He can speak a vast number of languages (including Baby) and doesn't have to rely on TARDIS translation as much as his companions do. It's just that most of the time, whatever he speaks apparently just sounds like English to his friends. A defining characteristic of the Doctor is his fascination with Earth. It's why he talks like an Earther (when he isn't talking about technology and concepts they don't have words for), dresses like a (very eccentric) Earther, and simplifies things in terms an Earther might stand a chance of understanding. He speaks their languages (all of them, throughout history, probably) and so is always translated based on that, I spose. It's also why, on the few occasions his travelling friends have encountered physical or computer texts in the TARDIS they've been in English (or at least something translatable) - they're probably 'Dummies' guides he's had made for just such an occasion. Rule number one: the Doctor lies, and he keeps his secrets.
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Post by Escher on Jun 5, 2011 14:37:55 GMT
Friendly Sontaran Nurse = Awesome. Steampunk Lady Silurian Vigilante & Sidekick = Double Awesome. Episode = Sublime
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Jun 5, 2011 16:07:21 GMT
Fair answer.
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Post by monkeyprime on Jun 5, 2011 22:31:04 GMT
The Sontaran Nurse was brilliant, so funny when he offered to nurse Melody, Silurian crime fighter was so interesting, how much do I want a spin off story about her!
Just enjoyed the entire thing from start to finish. Liked the revelation about River, loved the arc this session has gone on!
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Post by Eryx on Jun 5, 2011 23:15:50 GMT
Silurian crime fighter was so interesting, how much do I want a spin off story about her! That would be so cool.
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Post by Escher on Jun 6, 2011 0:49:31 GMT
Silurians would be an excellent alternative for a more combat-based campaign with alien PC's. Technologically superior and with a strong warrior code. Loved the Samurai elements. A human holographic disguise would be well within their capabilities too. There is an incredible amount of potential here for the GM to build upon using this race. The fact they can have human sidekicks is even better.
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Post by imajica on Jun 6, 2011 9:09:32 GMT
I appear to be in a minority here. I didn't like it. I was, frankly, underwhelmed by the last 3 episodes as a whole. The Flesh sounded like a good idea but their execution was lacking something for me. The fact that half of that cast had been in excellent series of their own didn't help. If you're going to cross-over Life on Mars, Paradox and Dr Who there's got to be a better way of doing it.
My problems with this episode. Firstly, the Doctor calling in all these favours to pull together an elite force to take on the asteroid? Just doesn't seem like his style. Wracking my brains for past examples of this and coming up empty. I liked the characters he pulled together, though - the Silurian Holmes ("How did you find him?" "Stringy.") was superb, the Sontaran Nurse equally so. Fat blue guy, less impressive. Secondly, River being Amy & Rory's daughter. Okay, not a massive revelation, rumours abounding for months, but still. Assuming the child in the opening episodes to the series was Melody Pond, and we've no reason to assume otherwise, she's already been shown to regenerate. Now. This proto-Timelord, as suggested by her DNA, might be limited to less than the usual number of regenerations, but still. Back in Silence in the Library/Forests of the Dead, why would River just die? Or has she run out of regenerations by then? Thirdly, how many little cameos? It was almost as bad as the Pandorica episodes, pulling together all of the heroes this time. Worse than The Stolen Earth with all the companions! I'd hoped everyone had forgotten about those modified spitfires.
I guess I was expecting more. It felt very, very rushed and incomplete. Maybe there's a director's cut to be released on DVD with the missing hour. And "Let's Kill Hitler"? What? Followed by that grim shot of the sonic screwdriver clutched in a skeleton's hand and the ominous "Time has run out." (or was it "Time is running out"?). Mixed messages for the second half of the series.
Overall, the series started well, had a gem of a 4th episode, then went downhill. Have to wait and see what happens later in the year.
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Post by Eryx on Jun 6, 2011 11:06:04 GMT
I've watched this episode a half dozen times now and one thing has begun to bug slightly. I still think it's an awesome episode but... This notion that the Doctor has come to be perceived throughout time and space as a great warrior doesn't make a lot of sense. He turns up, solves the problem without violence if possible and then vanishing. Force of chaos and problemsolver, yes. Warrior who has turned all these people in the universe against him? No. Just smacks of the Alliance from last season again (though it makes sense for them... just).
This sort of thing worked fine in Stolen Earth/Journey's End, as the way Davros puts it to the Doctor makes sense. But he's not the villain of the piece and it's obvious to anyone looking into his exploits that despite the chaos he can causes, he helps. If the Doctor is guilty of anything, it's not staying around to help clear up in the aftermatch of his adventures.
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Post by Curufea on Jun 6, 2011 12:08:36 GMT
Sontaran Nurse - needed backstory Silurian warrior in Victorian London - needed backstory The blue black marketeer - fine, he'd been mentioned previously. Needed a better death (ie a full second might not have gone astray) Biggles and the space spitfires of doom - should never have made an appearance Cybermen - How? Where did they come from? They have spaceships now? imajica - apparently the process that killed River would also have killed the Doctor in Forest of the Dead episode. They've established in the new series that regeneration doesn't cover all manners of death. I also thought it was rushed and needed to be longer. One last thing - why this huge complicated plan to create River to stop the Doctor, when she helps in every episode that she appears in. If you want to kill the Doctor, you could just shoot him. Why the hell did the church soldiers wait for the lights to go out and not just shoot him? Were they all in on the eye patch lady's plan to bluff him into thinking he'd won?
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Post by ugavine on Jun 6, 2011 12:52:23 GMT
Absolutely Brilliant! Loved it Sontaran Nurse - needed backstory I thought he had? He was from the same clone batch as the Sontaran in the Tennant story, I thought it was the dishonour of that Clone unit failing. I like the mystery. Opens up a new character for future stories. I was upset he died. Characters like that make great background characters. Really? I loved that touch. It was established at the end of last series that the Cybermen have a fleet of spaceships when they turn up at the Pandorica. People misunderstand who The Doctor is. And yes, the soldiers were just part of the plan, at least that's how I saw it.
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Deadstop
2nd Incarnation
Time Lady
Posts: 17
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Post by Deadstop on Jun 6, 2011 13:51:50 GMT
The Cybermen didn't have Cybus logos either. They could be the Cybermen of OUR universe, from the classic series. Those guys had an entire space empire for awhile.
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Post by Eryx on Jun 6, 2011 14:23:30 GMT
Moffat has said that these are our universe's cybermen, not the Pete's World ones.
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Post by curtisj on Jun 6, 2011 15:07:25 GMT
The fact that half of that cast had been in excellent series of their own didn't help. If you're going to cross-over Life on Mars, Paradox and Dr Who there's got to be a better way of doing it. ...What? Are you honestly suggesting that once an actor has appeared in their own excellent show they shouldn't be allowed to act any more? It's their job. The reason they got their other roles is presumably because they're good actors, so Doctor Who would want to cast them. And if you were an actor, would you really turn down a role in Doctor Who? Back in Silence in the Library/Forests of the Dead, why would River just die? Or has she run out of regenerations by then? There is a line from Forest Of The Dead where River says "It'll blow out both your hearts, and don't think you'll regenerate!" or some such. I'd hoped everyone had forgotten about those modified spitfires. I didn't mind seeing them, but how the hell did he get them into the TARDIS? Not to mention the fact that as far as I could tell, Avery and son were left in a different universe...
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Post by CharlieBananas on Jun 7, 2011 8:59:50 GMT
I've watched this episode a half dozen times now and one thing has begun to bug slightly. I still think it's an awesome episode but... This notion that the Doctor has come to be perceived throughout time and space as a great warrior doesn't make a lot of sense. He turns up, solves the problem without violence if possible and then vanishing. Force of chaos and problemsolver, yes. Warrior who has turned all these people in the universe against him? No. Just smacks of the Alliance from last season again (though it makes sense for them... just). This sort of thing worked fine in Stolen Earth/Journey's End, as the way Davros puts it to the Doctor makes sense. But he's not the villain of the piece and it's obvious to anyone looking into his exploits that despite the chaos he can causes, he helps. If the Doctor is guilty of anything, it's not staying around to help clear up in the aftermatch of his adventures. The New Who Doctor has been through the time war, and has done some really bad shit, I have said that it feels like he is suffering from battle fatigue, with the 11th incarnation it had started to feel more like the old Dr, but it is clear he is still frightened of what he may do if he loses control "Good men don't need rules". the Doctor we see in the first of this season is 200 years older than the one at the end of the season, he has 200 years to "fall further than he has ever fallen", and last time he lost control was the time war, and he wiped out his own race, if he is to fall further than that, then who knows what he is capable of.
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Post by imajica on Jun 7, 2011 12:10:41 GMT
The fact that half of that cast had been in excellent series of their own didn't help. If you're going to cross-over Life on Mars, Paradox and Dr Who there's got to be a better way of doing it. ...What? Are you honestly suggesting that once an actor has appeared in their own excellent show they shouldn't be allowed to act any more? It's their job. The reason they got their other roles is presumably because they're good actors, so Doctor Who would want to cast them. And if you were an actor, would you really turn down a role in Doctor Who? Fair point. It shouldn't bother me as much as it did. Not sure why. Given the opportunity, no I definitely wouldn't turn down a role in Doctor Who! And I clearly need to go back to re-watch Forests of the Dead. I suspect you're right about that line.
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Post by Curufea on Jun 8, 2011 0:25:13 GMT
Fair enough on the Cybermen. I forgot about the dubious inclusion of the pirates from another dimension - they kinda established that going to other dimensions was difficult if not impossible.
I curious as to why they dressed Rory as a Roman.
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Post by da professor on Jun 8, 2011 8:04:20 GMT
I curious as to why they dressed Rory as a Roman. Possibly so that if Amy saw him at a distance, she'd know who he was, noone else would dress like that in the period she was being held in, or as a psychological tool to help Rory channel the centurion memories from his past life in an alternate timeline as an Auton duplicate of a centurion.
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Post by Kit on Jun 12, 2011 6:09:08 GMT
I loved Madame Vastra and Jenny and Commander Strax. I so want to play a Sontaran now. and to run a game featuring Vastra and Jenny.
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OberonViking
1st Incarnation
VW Bus: it actually IS bigger on the inside.
Posts: 4
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Post by OberonViking on Jun 13, 2011 4:54:33 GMT
"Let's Kill Hitler."
So he's going to go deliberately mess with timelines - though probably not actually referring to Hitler. Sounds likenit will take some extreme timey-wimey to rescue Melody.
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