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Post by omega on Jun 17, 2010 12:57:18 GMT
What did you think?
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atrius
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 14
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Post by atrius on Jun 18, 2010 5:44:38 GMT
From all the spoilers I've seen so far, it looks crazy nuts and totally awesome.
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Post by Eryx on Jun 19, 2010 18:34:17 GMT
Absolutely loved it. Can't wait for the next one.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jun 19, 2010 19:26:32 GMT
That rocked. Hah hah!
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Post by CharlieBananas on Jun 19, 2010 21:49:17 GMT
Thought it was great, although I don't get how Rory could be constructed from Amy's memories when he has been wiped from them, indeed he has been wiped from existence? He never existed so he shouldn't even have been in the photo in Amy's room.
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Post by Curufea on Jun 20, 2010 0:29:02 GMT
I'm assuming that, like the copy of Mickey Smith, the Nestene Intelligence needed the original. So Either the real Rory is back - or sometime in Rory's past, prior to going into the crack, he was copied and for some reason the copy was protected from erasure.
Actually, scratch that - the Auton Rory remembered the crack and dying, so it must be post-crack, which means the crack isn't what the Doctor thinks it is (removal from time). Which is pretty much what was shown in the first episode, with the eye wardens and Prisoner Zero who all came from the crack.
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Eternally Lost Zeppo
3rd Incarnation
The Lonely God
Posts: 246
Favourite Doctors: David Tennant, Matt Smith, Peter Davidson
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Post by Eternally Lost Zeppo on Jun 20, 2010 0:38:35 GMT
I'm assuming that, like the copy of Mickey Smith, the Nestene Intelligence needed the original. So Either the real Rory is back - or sometime in Rory's past, prior to going into the crack, he was copied and for some reason the copy was protected from erasure. Actually, scratch that - the Auton Rory remembered the crack and dying, so it must be post-crack, which means the crack isn't what the Doctor thinks it is (removal from time). Which is pretty much what was shown in the first episode, with the eye wardens and Prisoner Zero who all came from the crack. I was thinking it was more of a glitch in the cosmos sort of thing. The image of Roman Rory was created out of the traces left over in Amy's memories along with the rest of the auton duplicates. Real Rory's consciousness, in the process of his erasure from history, somehow lands up inside Auton Rory's noggin. So, while the body is false, the mind inside is the genuine article. That might be a bit of a stretch though, I guess. :S
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Jun 20, 2010 1:37:24 GMT
We shall see. In the meantime, Robot Roman Rory now qualifies as a monster so our chances of getting a Rory action figure just went up.
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Post by da professor on Jun 20, 2010 8:19:53 GMT
In layman's terms "Wow!" In technical terms, also "Wow!" How the [expletive deleted] are they gonna get outta that?
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Post by imajica on Jun 20, 2010 9:07:20 GMT
It's either a work of absolute genius or utter idiocy. It's going to take next week's finale to swing it for me.
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Post by omega on Jun 20, 2010 10:17:50 GMT
It's either a work of absolute genius or utter idiocy. It's going to take next week's finale to swing it for me. I agree. But still, a weeping Rory as an Auton Roman Soldier killing Amy with his wrist blaster was something I never expected to see (can't wait for the action figure). Kudos to The Moff just for that. If I'd reported that in a Who forum as a spoiler no one would have believed me. And just whose totally evil voice was that in the TARDIS? It's spookily familiar. I've been trying to place it -is it Ian McDiarmid or Sylvester McCoy doing a thoroughly evil turn as the Big Bad of this finale? And: foreshadowing or a red herring? :
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joe2001
2nd Incarnation
"Geronimo!"
Posts: 42
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Post by joe2001 on Jun 20, 2010 16:08:42 GMT
Looks like The Moff can write a pretty good finale as well as an opening season story. But do we want next week to arrive so quickly? I mean its the final episode of this season
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atrius
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 14
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Post by atrius on Jun 20, 2010 22:47:43 GMT
A brilliant episode! I can't wait 6 more days to find out what happens... POOR TARDIS and River Song!
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Post by Curufea on Jun 20, 2010 23:04:20 GMT
Aside from the problem of Rory being created from memories Amy never had, and a photo that shouldn't have existed and the Cybermen almost killing the Doctor before he could be imprisoned (I suppose it had to be made to look like it wasn't a trap) - I liked it. I'm hoping the holes in the plot get filled next ep. I do like the foreshadowing of the date, and it being the same day the final episode is airred. That would have required a lot of organising with the BBC to make sure the scheduling never changes.
I should also add - I like the whole fairy tale quality of the season so far and even though I had seen the concept art, it was very obvious who the most feared being in the universe was. Everyone is scarred of monsters - but who are the monsters scared of?
It's foreshadowed as early as the Girl in the Fireplace.
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themyth
2nd Incarnation
"Look how white my teeth are!"
Posts: 47
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Post by themyth on Jun 20, 2010 23:43:32 GMT
What if Rory was always an Auton? He could have been placed as a sleeper agent in Amy's past. With periodic physical upgrades, the Nestene Consciousness could mimic human growth.
When Rory was shot by Restac and died, perhaps the Nestene left a vestige of itself to sense the time crack and then *ahem" "downloaded" (ala Battlestar Galactica's Skinjob Cylons) Rory into the Roman army in preparation for the Pandorica trap.
I just want to know how Van Gogh set things in motion. Perhaps Mister "Silence Will Fall" is behind his vision?
And how did all those species suddenly get time travel technology? Some of them were supposedly extinct!
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Post by Curufea on Jun 21, 2010 1:00:34 GMT
Extinct races turn up in Doctor Who far more often than any given non-Extinct race. How often have you seen Movellans, Androids, Rutans, Draconians etc?
It's a good theory that Rory was always an Auton - except for the download. Time erasure means that there was no original for data to be copied from. The workaround is - they made multiple Rory copies and backups when he was first made, and it was a copy that ceased to have ever existed.
It still doesn't explain about the death, unless you figure the Silurians told the Nestene - which is likely to be the case as they were present at the Pandorica. There would be a very small opportunity for the information about the death to be saved before it was erased from time. Being in the vortex does seem to help.
I'm more inclined to believe that Amy didn't lose her memories from the time erasure of Rory - the Doctor didn't lose his (although he may have natural defenses to stop this), but on the otherhand - the engagement ring didn't disappear from the TARDIS console. Which implies that in the TARDIS, in the Vortex - you aren't subject to changes in timelines.
My current theory is that Rory may or may not have always been an Auton (it works either way), the ring removed Amy's memories of Rory and stored them - when the Doctor landed at Stonehenge, the ring uploaded the memories to the Roman Rory, and that's when he volunteered.
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atrius
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 14
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Post by atrius on Jun 21, 2010 3:33:42 GMT
There's a few things that should have stopped existing when the time field took Rory: 1. The engagement ring 2. The photo of Rory in Roman armor and Amy 3. The wedding dress (was not shown in the episode, but i suspect it's still there too) 4. The memories of Rory Also, remember how Amy could remember the Clerics in Stone and Flesh, but no one could. Time travel changes how people see things. As to Rory being an Auton, it's possible. With the cracks in Time and Space, it is easy for the Nestene took made a duplicate of him from the photo in Amy's bedroom. Either that, or Rory was sent to 102 AD via the crack and the Nestene found him there. The Sister of the Water in Vampires in Venice did say that some cracks let to other worlds. Which also explains how the alliance was organised (as stated in the episode too). I'm interested to see how (and when) the Doctor gets out of the Pandorica. "A love that endures for a thousand years" - A ha! The new Rory and Amy's love? LOL I can't bare the wait!
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grey
1st Incarnation
Posts: 4
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Post by grey on Jun 21, 2010 6:13:55 GMT
....just a thought on the Rory "built" from Amy's memories - she DID remember him (eventually), just before he shot her!) so I'm not so sure that he was completely erased from her memory (time traveller and all) - so it may be all part of a paradox (Amy remembers Rory when she meets AutonRory, so the memory is there for the Nestene (or whoever!) to access for the false Roman setting, but only because they create the duplicate.......time paradoxes make my head hurt)......and we still don't know what 'Silence will fall' refers to (or who says it)
Looking forward to next week! (Also, among the monsters were Weevils! Not sure Doctor has yet been seen with these....yet there at the Pandorica? Spoiler or just fun link to Torchwood)
Cheers D.
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atrius
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 14
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Post by atrius on Jun 21, 2010 9:10:34 GMT
The voice that says "Silence will fall" sounds a lot like Davros... A LOT!
The clip shows New Daleks, Judoon, Cybermen, Silurians, Roboforms and something I don't recognise.
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Post by imajica on Jun 21, 2010 11:03:46 GMT
Wasn't the Hoix amongst the monsters there? The one from that disastrous Peter Kay episode?
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Post by Eryx on Jun 21, 2010 12:49:16 GMT
Rethinking the events of the episode it seems odd that these factions would together (especially Daleks who want to eradicate anything not Dalek) to create this prison for the Doctor. Especially as 109 AD was well before he encountered them, only the Daleks have time travel capability and so on. Also, what were the Judoon doing there? They aren't a villain or hate the Doctor?
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Post by da professor on Jun 21, 2010 18:13:00 GMT
Also, what were the Judoon doing there? They aren't a villain or hate the Doctor? The Judoon enforce the law. Destroying the universe is, one assumes, against the law.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jun 21, 2010 18:38:49 GMT
I imagine the Daleks got them all together from their various time periods (since the threat of the cracks is omnitemporal) what with them being the only ones with (known) time travel ability. And why 109AD? Because of Amy and her books.
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Post by omega on Jun 21, 2010 21:49:24 GMT
It's been mentioned elsewhere that Leadworth was entirely a fiction.
A Duck pond with no ducks anyone?
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Post by Curufea on Jun 22, 2010 5:48:49 GMT
The Silurians and the Sycorax were also present.
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Post by Curufea on Jun 22, 2010 5:50:03 GMT
A Duck pond with no ducks anyone? Only because they hung a lampshade on it (is that the correct term?) Duck ponds without ducks are fairly common.
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themyth
2nd Incarnation
"Look how white my teeth are!"
Posts: 47
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Post by themyth on Jun 22, 2010 18:47:15 GMT
A Duck pond with no ducks anyone? Only because they hung a lampshade on it (is that the correct term?) Duck ponds without ducks are fairly common. But what about the Doctor having that spasm RIGHT THERE? Smelled of foreshadowing of some sort to me, especially since he mentioned the duck pond with no ducks in a later episode.
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Post by ugavine on Jun 23, 2010 9:16:52 GMT
This was a really great episode. I loved it and cannot wait to see the finale!
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Post by Eryx on Jun 23, 2010 16:09:47 GMT
Also, what were the Judoon doing there? They aren't a villain or hate the Doctor? The Judoon enforce the law. Destroying the universe is, one assumes, against the law. I conceed the point.
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Eternally Lost Zeppo
3rd Incarnation
The Lonely God
Posts: 246
Favourite Doctors: David Tennant, Matt Smith, Peter Davidson
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Post by Eternally Lost Zeppo on Jun 23, 2010 16:40:39 GMT
A better question - asked by a friend of mine, with much more colourful language and imagery than I'll use - is why the Alliance imprisoned him in a box, rather than simply killing him?
I'm not one to nitpick such things, personally, but I figured I'd put it out there anyway.
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