I loved the first 15 minutes, but it felt like the main story didn't matter much after that. I guess I wanted more from a story that had Daleks *and* Churchill in it, and perhaps something more about the tough decisions of having an ultimate weapon at a time like that.
I didn't care for Prof. "Plot Device" Bracewell at all.
In the end, what bugged me the most was simply the pacing (felt the same last week, though I love The Eleventh Hour). The climax came too soon, and then a bunch of talking. And not very consequential talking. It had this weird dynamic of having too many stories in it, but still feeling padded. Based on last week and this, I'm tmepted to blame the director.
I don't mean to be so negative, I still give it a 7 out of 10. I just felt that on the surface (Daleks, Churchill, new Daleks, spitfires in space!) it should have been a classic.
Post by CharlieBananas on Apr 18, 2010 9:37:23 GMT
I enjoyed it but felt that it needed to be a two part-er, as it was it felt stripped down and just a primer for the real Dalek episode later. It asked a question that has been bugging me since ep1 of the season, and I'm not going to talk about that, even in the spoiler section, just in case I'm right. I'm still not sure on the new Dalek design, but I did like the fact that they are bigger and more menacing, I also like the Colour coding. An enjoyable if light episode.
I gave this an "Okay," because it was... okay. It had some nice things, but sufficient disappointments to undermine them. The pacing was very strange, the timescale was bizarre (it was a mistake to be so precise about when the bombers would arrive), and Churchill's persona was rather un-Churchillian.
As I've said on another thread, I like the new Daleks, but as supplements, not replacements for the previous marque. The space battle was perfunctory, the historical detail was eccentric to say the least, and why was our attention repeatedly drawn to the Wren whose "young man" was shot down over the Channel? If this doesn't have relevance later in the series, then it was gratuitous and clumsy padding.
But, having said all that, I didn't dislike the episode either. I liked Bracewell, I liked Daleks serving tea, and some of the dialogue was pretty good. So, all in all, it was... okay.
One thing, though. When I read in the "Radio Times" that Gatiss had been inspired by "The Power of the Daleks" to make the Daleks cunning and deceitful, I wasn't expecting this meant that "Victory" would be pretty much a retread of "Power," with an element from "Doomsday" thrown in. I mean, yes, creation is synthesis, but I wish Gatiss would make more of an effort to hide his sources.
"That is the dematerialising control, and that over yonder is the horizontal hold, up there is the scanner, those are the doors, and that is a chair with a panda on it. Sheer poetry, dear boy. Now please stop bothering me."
It was an ok episode for me. The idea was sound and I liked that the daleks got a makeover, and got away (now just don't bring them back for a couple seasons). But spitfires in space? That pushed even my loss of reality button (the stupid Cyberking did the same a couple Christmas's ago).
I keep hearing grumbles that the companion saved the day again. Why is that a problem? Let's give Amy Pond some air time and see where it takes us.
"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do."
Post by Null and Void on Apr 18, 2010 14:57:04 GMT
I was entertained by it, but it wasn't a great episode. The only really glaring plot holes were how they got the Doctor involved (weak weak weak) and then at the end where they let the guy with a bomb that can destroy the world go swanning off.
I didn't mind the spitfires in space, largely because I like spitfires.
The Doctor came off well, being very Doctor-like. I liked the fact that once they pointed out to him he'd saved the world, he seemed to realize how silly he was being and lightened up a little. Amy once more comes across well, but isn't given a lot do. She seems to be, in these episodes, a force the doctor to reconnect with humanity. And she succeeds at it better than Donna, Martha, or Rose did before.
I'm not so sure about the Crayola Daleks... I didn't quite catch what the colors designated, but I'm hoping we see some of the Dark Grey/Black ones. The colorful ones will get tired quickly if we don't have duller ones to compare it to.
And, its saying something when the Daleks get the funniest line in the show:
(The doctor is beating on a Dalek with a large wrench and shouting at it) Dalek: So... you don't want tea?
Bloodline to bloodline, in constant transition. Our pattern, our flesh, and our one restoration. Conception, completion, the will of the city. Grandfather watch me, Spirits maintain me.
I gave it 7/10. I start with a 10 by default because it has WWII daleks with Union Jacks on the front, but then I deduct the following points: -1 point: Defusing a bomb with the power of "fancying someone your not supposed to" -1 point: Building space spitfires with laser guns in under ten minutes. -1 point: Doctor survives due to daleks being unable to kill him when there are half a dozen of them right in front of them. They manage one half-hearted zap which smacks a bulkhead.
So basically, I like that it was clearly a means of making the daleks a bit more old-school and less universe-destroying "our daleks go up to 11" vaudeville-villains that we've had in the last few seasons. And I like a dalek going "you do not require teaaa?" whilst Matt Smith repeatedly whacks it with the world's biggest spanner (I mean, what would you use that thing for?). But it fell down badly on some basic believability.
I'm hoping the rest of the season will be more on the level of the first two, than this.
Bearing in mind that they were told it was ten minutes till London was attacked, and that London was under attack when the Spitfires were doing their Death Star run, is it not likely that those ten minutes had already passed by at that point?
THE DOCTOR: I'll do a thing. RIVER SONG: What thing? THE DOCTOR: I don't know. It's a thing in progress. Respect the thing!
Well, it made more sense than episode 2, although episode 2 was more fun. Episode 2 suffered from complete fantasy nonsensical logic. Great to view, but turn off your brain while watching, and try not to think about it afterwards.
Episode 3 - Yet another jingoistic episode, and breaking from the Original Who policy of only showing minor historical figures. I think Agatha Christie was much better done than Winston. However I really enjoyed some of the fan service "Would you like some tea" stands out for example, but mostly as a not towards Nicholas Briggs. Danny Boy was very much "Biggles in Space" for this ep.
I don't like the "yet more pathetic Daleks" because they are once again over-used and impotent. I'm not sure about the Power Ranger upgrade - the new design is now taller than a human, comes in bright colours and looks like a modern car.
Amy yet again out-thinks the Doctor. I hope it doesn't continue much longer - I'm getting a bit tired of companions disempowering the Doctor. Sure they can save the day and win the battle - but do they always have to do it in such a way to show they are superior to the Doctor and rub his nose in it? I'm assuming it's just more of the companion proving she should be there at this stage, and they'll get around to having her be a proper companion soon (ie useful, but not at the Doctor's expense).
Top comments on the new Daleks I've seen so far- Telly-Tubby Daleks. They look like Honda has had a go at them or are they Ford Ka-leds?? iDaleks Power Rangers killer tea maids or attack of the soda stream makers
"This is my timey wimey detector. Goes ding when there's stuff."
Absolutely Brilliant. I loved it. I thought the new Daleks were great, and a nice nod the the Peter Cushing movies - that was the Doctor Who I remember from my childhood.
The 10 minutes to rig the planes was a stretch. But Spitfires in space, that was fantastic! Only Doctor Who pulls off this sort of thing. If the show were to ground itself in realism it would be as boring as all those American shows. Doctor Who gives itself enough fantasy to make it enjoyable and a little bit silly, that's why I love it. Holding off the Daleks with a Jammy dodger, c'mon, that's brilliant.
"There's no use being grown up if you can't be childish now and then."
-1 point: Defusing a bomb with the power of "fancying someone your not supposed to" -1 point: Building space spitfires with laser guns in under ten minutes. -1 point: Doctor survives due to daleks being unable to kill him when there are half a dozen of them right in front of them. They manage one half-hearted zap which smacks a bulkhead.
All valid points, but I picked this out because interestingly enough those look like classic moments in the game where players spent Story Points, at least, from my games I run.
I thought the Daleks were very reminiscent of the 60's movie Daleks and also, without any cynicism intended, the future action figure merchandise in this episode alone is considerable:
UK Flag Olive Drab Green Dalek; New coloured Daleks, Spitfire, Churchill...now a Churchill figure would be awesome.
It's become the mainstay of the series, things change. I've spoke to some people today who didn't like the new Daleks, but the Daleks have had as much change as The Doctor; they need static electricity floors to run, to run outside they need radar dishes on their back, the Emperor was introduced, Davros, renegade Daleks, turning humans into Daleks, Heavy Weapon Dalek, Daleks can hover up stairs, Daleks can fly, Daleks have shields, Cult of Skaro, Dalek Sec, Daleks made from Davros, new pure Daleks.
Spitfires in Space, brilliant. What about Clockwork Robots in renaissance France, Sailing ships in space, TARDIS landing in the land of fiction, Dalek body-slammed by Frankenteins Monster, teleporting planets, TARDIS towing the Earth... the list goes on, and it's why I love this show so much.
"There's no use being grown up if you can't be childish now and then."
I enjoyed the first half of the episode, but I thought it became something of a mess as soon as the Testimony was delivered. The rest of the episode felt like a Dalek merchandising presentation with a plot-by-numbers tacked on as an afterthought. And the bomb...
I think early preview material (e.g. on Wikipedia) talked about VotD being 65 minutes rather than a standard episode length. I'm wondering if 20 crucial minutes of narrative pacing, character development and plot exposition were cut. The things I didn't like about the episode have already been covered in this thread, so I won't go on about it. I'm just hoping that VotD is the absolute low point of this season.
Alas, I never want to see the New Paradigm Daleks again...ever. The colour-coded caste system is absolutely fine by me, but the 'obese plastic hunchback' design is simply awful. The proportions and angles are an eyesore IMO. Hopefully they'll get a serious redesign before their next appearance...back to the iconic body shape that has given children nightmares for almost half a century.
NuWho has pretty much scotched all the old 'run up the stairs to safety' jibes. Unfortunately, escaping the NPD probably only requires a normally-proportioned doorway to run through.
I'm in two minds about this one Positives - Lovely WW2 scenes, the Daleks finally win one, Daleks offerring tea! (Thats gotta be right up there with the Cyberman car wash for funny ideas) Negatives - The new spanky power ranger frill necked Daleks (I thought the old ones were very good at doing sinister, the new ones look like an advert for The Wiggles in Space). The story seemed like a 5 minute "intro to retconned Daleks" with a feeling of "now how do we fill it in" This was the story I was most looking forward to, and I guess thats why I'm feeling dissapoined about it.
Post by The Professor on Apr 21, 2010 15:39:28 GMT
GO GO DALEK RANGERS!
Humor aside, I thought this episode was entertaining enough, although there were a few sticking points that keeps this from being great.
1. The pace. I beleive someone mentioned that the way the plot flowed, it felt a little anti-climactic at the end.
2. The weeping soldier. What was up with her? There seemed to be no plot relevance to he what-so-ever. Though perhaps not yet?
3. The Power of Heart! Defusing a bomb with lovey dovey memories? OK, I can see that if they're trying to force robo-doc to assert some kind of self-control over his own functions after becoming robo-emo and not caring if he dies. Just seemed a little out-there. Actually had to ponder why that was done that way for a few.
4. The Dalek. Why, after ages of battling the Doctor, after countless defeats, why are they not now evolved to shoot him on sight? No questions asked. "I'm the Doctor *ZAP!*" I do agree that the new versions do seem to be a bit of an old school homage and I've no real problem with that as they are a classic staple. Although my friends and I immediately thought Dalek Rangers when they appeared.
iDaleks, colour coordinated for YOUR convenience*.
At least the Spitfire deathstar run was cool. All they were missing were dalek astromechs behind the cockpit. A thought which inspired a very silly five minute recasting of Star Wars using Doctor Who characters.
* Not their's since they only see things in shades of blue if what we've seen of "dalekvision" is anything to go by.