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Post by allenshock on Feb 5, 2010 18:16:46 GMT
The guy just doesn't "get it", by his own admission. And he doesn't like the idea of regenerating. The problem is, the other two players in that campaign are women and I'm just not into sex-changing Time Lords...so I am thinking of taking the Time Lord character back to being an NPC (which he was originally) and having the guy build a Companion.
Allen
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Post by allenshock on Feb 5, 2010 19:08:12 GMT
The guy just doesn't "get it", by his own admission. And he doesn't like the idea of regenerating. The problem is, the other two players in that campaign are women and I'm just not into sex-changing Time Lords...so I am thinking of taking the Time Lord character back to being an NPC (which he was originally) and having the guy build a Companion. Allen I talked to him and he was fine with it. So, the Handyman returneth Allen
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Jason_WPGL
2nd Incarnation
Lord of CthuWho
Live Full, Die Empty
Posts: 152
Favourite Doctors: 2, 4, 6, 8, War, 11, 12
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Post by Jason_WPGL on Feb 5, 2010 22:11:51 GMT
Sometimes you got to do what you got to do.
That stinks though that he didn't "get it". As to the women players why not let them play the male Time Lord? Just because your a woman that doesn't mean you have to play a woman, the same with men. Sometimes you have some of the funniest things happen when you play as a member of the opposite sex.
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Post by allenshock on Feb 6, 2010 5:33:02 GMT
Sometimes you got to do what you got to do. That stinks though that he didn't "get it". As to the women players why not let them play the male Time Lord? Just because your a woman that doesn't mean you have to play a woman, the same with men. Sometimes you have some of the funniest things happen when you play as a member of the opposite sex. Primarily because they both told me they don't want to Allen
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Post by JohnK on Feb 6, 2010 15:14:29 GMT
Hullo, Allen, The guy just doesn't "get it", by his own admission. And he doesn't like the idea of regenerating. The problem is, the other two players in that campaign are women and I'm just not into sex-changing Time Lords...so I am thinking of taking the Time Lord character back to being an NPC (which he was originally) and having the guy build a Companion. I really feel for you, mate, since back in the days when I was running the FASA rpg, I had a player who was exactly like that. He was a fan of the show, mind you, but he just didn't "get" the whole idea of playing the Time Lord. I did exactly what you're being forced to do here, and ended up having the Time Lord as an NPC. Made things interesting for sure. That said, my Sunday gaming group has a similar situation. There are two players in that group, and the female player has stated that she doesn't want to play the Time Lord, she wants to play the various companions that come and go in the series (and it allows more flexibility of character types and historical periods). The male player isn't necessarily excited about playing the Time Lord, so I may end up going this route with that gaming group as well. We'll just have to wait and see. They've also got a third, NPC companion with them at the moment as well, whom they met for the first time when they encountered the Time Lord. So I sympathise with you mate. Do what you gotta do.
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Post by ugavine on Feb 6, 2010 20:44:49 GMT
It can be tough when a player can't get into their character. Happens to me all the time and I've been role-playing for 20 years. Occasionally it's the setting I don't get. One time I had a great character in a Babylon 5 game. The character was okay, but I don't watch (or even like) Babylon 5, so I just didn't get the setting. The important thing is that you went about things the right way by discussing it with the player. All too often I've seen (usually too late) Player & GM not discussing things leading to animosity. I've been the culprit of this my self in the past as Player and GM. So it's always my no.1 rule now with any campaign direction and character choice, talk to the players.
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Post by JohnK on Feb 7, 2010 15:26:14 GMT
Hullo, Ugavine, It can be tough when a player can't get into their character. Happens to me all the time and I've been role-playing for 20 years. Occasionally it's the setting I don't get. One time I had a great character in a Babylon 5 game. The character was okay, but I don't watch (or even like) Babylon 5, so I just didn't get the setting. As a huge fan of Babylon 5, I have to ask 2 questions: First off, if you weren't a fan of the series why did you play in it? And second, what didn't you get about the setting? For the record, I actually think that with some tinkering, DW: AiTaS would be a marvellous system to run a game based on Babylon 5.
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Post by Curufea on Feb 7, 2010 19:45:02 GMT
Space combat is part of the B5 storytelling. You'd have to build rules for it.
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Post by ugavine on Feb 7, 2010 21:42:22 GMT
As a huge fan of Babylon 5, I have to ask 2 questions: First off, if you weren't a fan of the series why did you play in it? And second, what didn't you get about the setting? For the record, I actually think that with some tinkering, DW: AiTaS would be a marvellous system to run a game based on Babylon 5. Rule of our group, we take it in turns as GM, the GM plays what game HE wants to play. As I said, I'm not a fan of Babylon 5. I found it too political. I guess I found it too hard sci-fi with not enough humour. I'm more into Space Opera like Star Wars & Buck Rogers and Brittish sci-fi like Doctor Who, Blakes 7 and Red Dwarf. What didn't I get? Well, what I supposed to be doing. I think the GM presumed we all knew Babylon 5, the politics and the races. We didn't. If I tell you that the three PCs were called Bisto, Oxo and B'vril, I think you'll understand how serious we were taking it. ;D That said, I did like my character, Oxo Wooxrind. He was an Austrailian starfighter pilot, but was too scared to fly so would get drunk before every mission. Best moment, piloting a transport of some kind, was when I left the controls to go get more beer. Another PC saw me leave the controls and ran to take control. He couldn't pilot so tried to turn the auto-pilot on. I ran in to stop him messing and we started brawling. See, he hadn't realised I had turned on the auto-pilot, so what he was actually doing was turning it off. It was hilairious as we brawled turning the auto-pilot off-on-off-on-off-on... ;D
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Post by Rel Fexive on Feb 7, 2010 21:47:43 GMT
The guy just doesn't "get it", by his own admission. And he doesn't like the idea of regenerating. The problem is, the other two players in that campaign are women and I'm just not into sex-changing Time Lords...so I am thinking of taking the Time Lord character back to being an NPC (which he was originally) and having the guy build a Companion. Allen Just to ask, as I don't think anyone has... in what way did he not "get it" exactly? I'm interested because I might be playing one soon myself - and others are or might be - and it would be good to hear what problems other people have so as to avoid them, if you see what I mean.
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Post by The Porter on Feb 7, 2010 23:16:08 GMT
As a huge fan of Babylon 5, I have to ask 2 questions: Who are you? What do you want?
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Post by Curufea on Feb 8, 2010 1:17:13 GMT
Why are you here? What are you looking for?
or
Whom do you serve? Who do you trust?
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Post by JohnK on Feb 8, 2010 3:17:59 GMT
Hullo, Curufea, Space combat is part of the B5 storytelling. You'd have to build rules for it. Yes, space combat is important in B5, but to be honest, in a roleplaying game of the same basic universe and concepts, showing the various space battles is really only going to be relevant if the characters are out there in ships or whatever. But yes, the starship combat stuff would be necessary. Before I'd even want to get to that, I'd rather see first some rules for spaceships and the like for the DW: AiTaS system. After all, we would have to design Babylon 5 itself, too.
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Post by JohnK on Feb 8, 2010 3:24:39 GMT
Hullo, Ugavine, As a huge fan of Babylon 5, I have to ask 2 questions: First off, if you weren't a fan of the series why did you play in it? And second, what didn't you get about the setting? For the record, I actually think that with some tinkering, DW: AiTaS would be a marvellous system to run a game based on Babylon 5. Rule of our group, we take it in turns as GM, the GM plays what game HE wants to play. I assume above you meant the GM ran what he wanted to run. That's something beyond common sense. If the GM isn't happy about a game, he or she shouldn't be running it. As I said, I'm not a fan of Babylon 5. I found it too political. I guess I found it too hard sci-fi with not enough humour. I'm more into Space Opera like Star Wars & Buck Rogers and Brittish sci-fi like Doctor Who, Blakes 7 and Red Dwarf. Oh, geez...that's not the same Babylon 5 that I saw. Politics was an essential part of the series, to be honest, given that the station was a hotbed of politics with various alien races and all. Not to mention the situation that the Earth Alliance found itself in. The humour was certainly there, but it was character-based, and somewhat situation-based. Definitely hard science fiction. Given your preference, though, I can see where it might not have been your cup of tea. What didn't I get? Well, what I supposed to be doing. I think the GM presumed we all knew Babylon 5, the politics and the races. We didn't. If I tell you that the three PCs were called Bisto, Oxo and B'vril, I think you'll understand how serious we were taking it. ;D To me, that's bad GMing. The GM in the case of a show based on a tv series or movies should give the players an idea of the setting, especially for players who don't watch the tv series or whatever. The rest of this is just...sad.
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Post by JohnK on Feb 8, 2010 3:26:12 GMT
Hullo, Porter, As a huge fan of Babylon 5, I have to ask 2 questions: Who are you? What do you want? "And so it begins..."
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Post by zebaroth on Feb 8, 2010 5:26:24 GMT
I Am a man and have played A female character in a paranoia game She had 1 clone left at the end of month
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Post by thewatcher on Feb 8, 2010 6:05:17 GMT
Space combat is part of the B5 storytelling. You'd have to build rules for it. I'd say they're already there. With the chase rules, including stunts, and creative use of storypoints then you can be as fly as Sheradin (Sp?), hell even Starbuck but thats another story.
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Post by allenshock on Feb 8, 2010 6:19:50 GMT
Just to ask, as I don't think anyone has... in what way did he not "get it" exactly? I'm interested because I might be playing one soon myself - and others are or might be - and it would be good to hear what problems other people have so as to avoid them, if you see what I mean. He doesn't watch the show or know anything about it (although he has now seen An Unearthly Child and Rose back to back). He seems to have this fear of getting his character killed that keeps him from doing anything heroic...but then, when confronted by a dozen Autons, does he run? No, he stays and tries to duke it out with them..and then complained when he got shot up. He's so hung up on the Sonic Screwdriver being a "screwdriver" that he literally won't use it, thinking it is useless despite all evidence to the contrary. Remember those dozen Autons? could have avoided the pain if he had used the Sonic on them, but no... Can't comprehend how you could have a contest between Convince and Marksman and not get killed if the Convince wins...even though I explained it twice. Just plain refuses to act like a hero and then falls back on the "That's the way my character is" excuse. That sort of thing. Allen
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Feb 8, 2010 12:25:03 GMT
Well, at least he admitted to not getting it. :/
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Post by JohnK on Feb 8, 2010 14:06:03 GMT
Hullo, Allen, Just to ask, as I don't think anyone has... in what way did he not "get it" exactly? I'm interested because I might be playing one soon myself - and others are or might be - and it would be good to hear what problems other people have so as to avoid them, if you see what I mean. He doesn't watch the show or know anything about it (although he has now seen An Unearthly Child and Rose back to back). Oh, dear, that must have been traumatic, watching the first episode of Doctor Who and then watching the slick, modern interpretation of it with all the glitzy special effects. The female player in my Sunday group has not watched the series either, although she has seen the last four tv specials, but she won't watch the old, primitive series (her words, not mine), as she's very much a special effects type of person. He seems to have this fear of getting his character killed that keeps him from doing anything heroic...but then, when confronted by a dozen Autons, does he run? No, he stays and tries to duke it out with them..and then complained when he got shot up. He's so hung up on the Sonic Screwdriver being a "screwdriver" that he literally won't use it, thinking it is useless despite all evidence to the contrary. Remember those dozen Autons? could have avoided the pain if he had used the Sonic on them, but no... The business about getting the character killed... that's the sort of thing I would have added in to the character background and possibly the game stats and all to reflect this personality. Regardless of how the Time Lord was originally envisioned. On the other hand, he obviously doesn't understand the mentality of characters in the tv series; they don't fight against the Autons or the Daleks or whatever, they get out of it by their wits more than anything else. The sonic screwdriver business...well, to me that device has been used so often in the series as a crutch that I decided for the Sunday gaming group which has a Time Lord that there would be no sonic screwdriver. Too convenient, too easy, especially for those who are fans of the series. With this player, you needed to show them an episode or two where the sonic screwdriver was used in all its glory. It sounds like a case of the player's mindset being stuck because of the word "screwdriver". If you changed it to sonic multi-tool, who knows what might have happened. Can't comprehend how you could have a contest between Convince and Marksman and not get killed if the Convince wins...even though I explained it twice. Explaining the game mechanic for such a thing is not the same as experiencing it in play, in my experience. Either that, or the player simply just can't handle the mechanic. Did you take the gaming group through some samples of combat and that sort of thing before they started to play? You could have done a Physical and a Mental or Social Conflict to show them the differences between the two, and perhaps that would have made the concept gel in their minds. I know that's what I did. Just plain refuses to act like a hero and then falls back on the "That's the way my character is" excuse. That sort of thing. Frankly that sort of thing would be a refreshing change to the manner in which a Time Lord is played, but that would rankle a bit with the other players, who might be more cognisant of how Time Lord players come across in the game and series history. Personally, that would have worked quite well to some degree, as I think it would have given the Time Lord's companions a real chance to shine, and would have given them the neat little sub-plot of getting the Time Lord to be more heroic, and to not take chances too often. But that's just my $0.02 on the matter. In any event, I look forward to seeing your revised Handyman stuff when you post it up.
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skagra
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 59
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Post by skagra on Feb 8, 2010 18:16:45 GMT
but then, when confronted by a dozen Autons, does he run? No, he stays and tries to duke it out with them..and then complained when he got shot up. I've GM'd for players who seem to think there characters can never lose a fight. You end up having to save them somehow every time, or killing them off and letting them learn the hard way. You can always warn them - try to detail the hopelessness with witch they are outnumbered and out gunned. Characters who won't use the devices at their disposal have too many devices. Maybe you need a different kind of adventure for these guys. Something less heroic. Perhaps your player would prefer rogue Timelord who is not a hero? Maybe he'd be happier playing a UNIT grunt, less heroics and more skirmishes. Sometimes you got to do what you got to do. That stinks though that he didn't "get it". As to the women players why not let them play the male Time Lord? Just because your a woman that doesn't mean you have to play a woman, the same with men. Sometimes you have some of the funniest things happen when you play as a member of the opposite sex. Primarily because they both told me they don't want to Allen They might like to play a female Timelord, though. Romana, Jenny, or a home made hero? Of course there is nothing wrong ith NPCing the Timelord either. It's kind of like NPCing a paladin in D&D - it could be just the cure for a cowardly, inexperienced, or unfocused party. Best of luck.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Feb 8, 2010 20:36:53 GMT
Just to ask, as I don't think anyone has... in what way did he not "get it" exactly? I'm interested because I might be playing one soon myself - and others are or might be - and it would be good to hear what problems other people have so as to avoid them, if you see what I mean. He doesn't watch the show or know anything about it (although he has now seen An Unearthly Child and Rose back to back). He seems to have this fear of getting his character killed that keeps him from doing anything heroic...but then, when confronted by a dozen Autons, does he run? No, he stays and tries to duke it out with them..and then complained when he got shot up. He's so hung up on the Sonic Screwdriver being a "screwdriver" that he literally won't use it, thinking it is useless despite all evidence to the contrary. Remember those dozen Autons? could have avoided the pain if he had used the Sonic on them, but no... Can't comprehend how you could have a contest between Convince and Marksman and not get killed if the Convince wins...even though I explained it twice. Just plain refuses to act like a hero and then falls back on the "That's the way my character is" excuse. That sort of thing. Allen Ouch. That's some major dissonance there. But as others have said, retrievable with a slight change in personality (and overcoming the suicidal flying fists mentality).
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skagra
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 59
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Post by skagra on Feb 9, 2010 20:11:26 GMT
Ouch. That's some major dissonance there. I know a guy I used to game with who always played a thief (D&D). That is he always role played a thief - regardless of his actual character class. He once played a paladin, found a ring of invisibility, and made a habit of backstabbing his foes. He was constantly repenting his sins to retain his paladinhood. The DM never should have let him get away with that.
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Post by Curufea on Feb 9, 2010 21:43:07 GMT
I tended to always play the class of thief when forced to play D&D. But that was mainly because it's the only class with realistic amounts of skills that could survive actually having a job and being part of society as opposed to wandering around killing things and stealing stuff that adventuring parties usually do.
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Post by azimerthemad on Mar 29, 2010 5:58:03 GMT
I Am a man and have played A female character in a paranoia game She had 1 clone left at the end of month That actually sounds like a long run for Paranoia. You know, I THINK I might have the TARDIS show up in Alpha Complex.... I've GM'd for players who seem to think there characters can never lose a fight. Right now my group seems to be able to talk out of any fight. I need to get at least a few scenes of my shooting at them out of my blood. As to the OP, I think the situation turned out nicely. You both reached an agreement out of game, and he admitted his problem. He's got another character and you're good to go.
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Mar 29, 2010 15:47:51 GMT
That actually sounds like a long run for Paranoia. You know, I THINK I might have the TARDIS show up in Alpha Complex.... Have you by any chance seen the Seventh Doctor story The Happiness Patrol?
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Post by DonnaDoctor on Mar 29, 2010 22:37:11 GMT
Sometimes even when you are dealing with fans, they still don't get the characters. I recently had to deal with someone who insisted on playing Jack Harkness as an oversexed lout who would shag like Austin Powers. I put my foot down when they tried to Retcon the party, in the middle of a scenario, for absolutely no justifiable reason.
Suit me fine, since I wanted to have a party of original characters, and this was the one hold out.
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Post by azimerthemad on Apr 3, 2010 23:35:16 GMT
Wow. I love that episode, and mixing the Candyman and the Computer is like..mixing chocolate executions and peanut butter executions. Suit me fine, since I wanted to have a party of original characters, and this was the one hold out. That's why I told my Doctor he could not run David Tennant. He's instead running the Doctor as Simon Archard, the sarcastic Holmes-pastiche from Mark Waid's highly entertaining comic Ruse.
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Post by JohnK on Apr 4, 2010 14:38:13 GMT
Hullo, azimerthemad, That's why I told my Doctor he could not run David Tennant. He's instead running the Doctor as Simon Archard, the sarcastic Holmes-pastiche from Mark Waid's highly entertaining comic Ruse. Oh, I loved Simon Archard and the Ruse comics! Any chance of seeing the game stats for the player character posted here to the forums?
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Post by Rel Fexive on Apr 4, 2010 15:22:42 GMT
When I get around to playing my bootstrap Time Lord character (in a couple of months, maybe?) I plan to make him utterly confused about anything Earth-related. He's very, very young, after all, and hasn't seen much of the universe. The Doctor is pretty much defined by his long-standing interaction with humans - what might a Time Lord be like without that frame of reference to interpret and inform? I intend to avoid using human (or at least English) terms for things as much as possible, within limits. The translation effect of a TARDIS will play against that to a degree (if only to make it easier for me ) but I want to try it so he's not understanding all the colloquialisms and 'local references' the companions make. Even the scientific ones. Especially the scientific ones - he has no levels in Time Traveller. It if proves too difficult he may lay claim to some kind of quick learning ability
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