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Post by Kit on Jan 31, 2010 2:00:00 GMT
We first meet the Master when he is played by Roger DelGado. Delgado was great and the Master was cool. After DelGado's untimely death, we next see the Master at the end of his regenerations as a skeletal mess [Deadly Assassin] who then transfer's his consciousness into Nyssa's father [Keeper of Traken]
Does anyone have any thoughts on what happened to all of the other incarnations of the Master? Or what those unseen incarnations were like? IIRC, FASA claimed that the Monk and the War Chief were prior incarnations of the Master, but i'm not buying it.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 31, 2010 11:36:48 GMT
I suspect he either lived vary dangerously or even used some of them as disguises.
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Post by JohnK on Jan 31, 2010 15:28:46 GMT
Hullo, Kit, We first meet the Master when he is played by Roger DelGado. Delgado was great and the Master was cool. After DelGado's untimely death, we next see the Master at the end of his regenerations as a skeletal mess [Deadly Assassin] who then transfer's his consciousness into Nyssa's father [Keeper of Traken] Does anyone have any thoughts on what happened to all of the other incarnations of the Master? Or what those unseen incarnations were like? IIRC, FASA claimed that the Monk and the War Chief were prior incarnations of the Master, but i'm not buying it. I remember the FASA Master supplement presenting the idea that the Monk and the War Chief were prior incarnations of the Master, but I dismissed those out of hand. The Monk was a meddler, but he wasn't out for power per se, he seemed to delight in just altering history and seeing what it's ramifications were. The War Chief, on the other hand, was out for power in a manner of speaking, but again he didn't strike me as being malicious, and it's hard to believe that the Master's personality would change so radically across incarnations. I have to wonder if any of the Master's previous incarnations have been written about in some of the multitudinous novels that have been written based on the series, but I'm not aware of any of his other incarnations being mentioned anywhere. Can we assume it's safe to say that the Delgado incarnation was the 13th?
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Post by renegadetimelord on Jan 31, 2010 15:59:08 GMT
I have to wonder if any of the Master's previous incarnations have been written about in some of the multitudinous novels that have been written based on the series, but I'm not aware of any of his other incarnations being mentioned anywhere. No - I don't think so. I have read a lot of them - Virgin, pre-Russell BBC and post-Russell alike - but previous incarnations of The Master have not appeared. There may be an additional version of The Master between Anthony Ainley and Eric Roberts - in the form of Mr Seta from Big Finish's Dust Breeding, but that's all I know of (1). Can we assume it's safe to say that the Delgado incarnation was the 13th? Yes, I'd say that was indeed a safe assumption. (1) I suggest he comes later than Anthony and before Eric to fit in with discussions elsewhere in this forum that suggest that all Gallifreyan time travellers occupy a concurrent place in linear time.
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Post by Kit on Jan 31, 2010 19:06:07 GMT
Can we assume it's safe to say that the Delgado incarnation was the 13th? I've always assumed as much
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Post by Curufea on Jan 31, 2010 21:36:17 GMT
An unknown incarnation of the Master appears in the Sylvester McCoy Big Finish episode called The Master.
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Jan 31, 2010 23:15:25 GMT
I'd add that the Master is actually pretty good at regenerating - being able to jump between bodies and hold himself together in only-mostly-dead form in between. So it's possible that all of his natural incarnations looked largely like Roger Delgado...
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Post by Curufea on Feb 1, 2010 2:23:37 GMT
I think that you've hit on a good bit of evidence that the Master may have willpower of levels close to Omega for that reason.
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Post by JohnK on Feb 1, 2010 2:41:38 GMT
Hullo, renegadetimelord, I have to wonder if any of the Master's previous incarnations have been written about in some of the multitudinous novels that have been written based on the series, but I'm not aware of any of his other incarnations being mentioned anywhere. No - I don't think so. I have read a lot of them - Virgin, pre-Russell BBC and post-Russell alike - but previous incarnations of The Master have not appeared. There may be an additional version of The Master between Anthony Ainley and Eric Roberts - in the form of Mr Seta from Big Finish's Dust Breeding, but that's all I know of (1). (1) I suggest he comes later than Anthony and before Eric to fit in with discussions elsewhere in this forum that suggest that all Gallifreyan time travellers occupy a concurrent place in linear time. Thanks for clearing that up, since I haven't read any of the novels or listened to the audio plays and so forth. This would seem to me to leave a good number of Master plots and the like for GMs of the DW: AiTaS rpg to come up with. Lucky us.
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Post by JohnK on Feb 1, 2010 3:01:44 GMT
Hullo, Curufea, An unknown incarnation of the Master appears in the Sylvester McCoy Big Finish episode called The Master. Interesting. Any chance of summarizing the story for those of us who don't know it?
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Post by Curufea on Feb 1, 2010 4:43:54 GMT
The Doctor makes a deal with Death to release the Master from her service so he can live a normal life as a non-Time Lord in a community on a colony world. At the end of this time (according to the deal) the Doctor must kill the Master. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_%28audio_drama%29
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Post by JohnK on Feb 1, 2010 16:09:04 GMT
Hullo, Curfea, The Doctor makes a deal with Death to release the Master from her service so he can live a normal life as a non-Time Lord in a community on a colony world. At the end of this time (according to the deal) the Doctor must kill the Master. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_%28audio_drama%29Sounds interesting, but to be honest, I can't honestly say I'm fond of the whole involvment of Death with the Doctor and all. That said, I may look up the plots of various other BF products, and see if I can rip off plots from them for my own campaign. Hmm, perhaps that needs to be a new thread on its own...?
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Post by allenshock on Feb 2, 2010 4:28:12 GMT
I got out my copy of the FASA Master supplement because something said here did not sit right with me.
The Master supplement does not say that The War Chief is an incarnation of The Master. The write-up on the War Chief on page 43 lists him as an Ally of the Master, and says that he wants vengeance on The Master for events that happened on Gallifrey (FASA postulates a failed revolution) and that he actively hates The Master.
Allen
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Post by Craig Oxbrow on Feb 2, 2010 8:29:55 GMT
That's a novel definition of "ally", certainly...
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Post by allenshock on Feb 2, 2010 9:45:51 GMT
That's a novel definition of "ally", certainly... yes, well, he was an ally at one time but the Master betrayed him...that sort of thing Allen
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Post by JohnK on Feb 2, 2010 15:47:03 GMT
Hullo, Allen, I got out my copy of the FASA Master supplement because something said here did not sit right with me. The Master supplement does not say that The War Chief is an incarnation of The Master. The write-up on the War Chief on page 43 lists him as an Ally of the Master, and says that he wants vengeance on The Master for events that happened on Gallifrey (FASA postulates a failed revolution) and that he actively hates The Master. Allen I've been reading the old FASA game stuff myself to see if I can get some inspiration out of the old adventures and all, and in "The Legions of Death" adventure, it is strongly hinted if not stated that the War Chief is a previous version of the Master. Personally, I don't subscribe to that belief at all.
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Post by allenshock on Feb 2, 2010 17:23:46 GMT
Hullo, Allen, I got out my copy of the FASA Master supplement because something said here did not sit right with me. The Master supplement does not say that The War Chief is an incarnation of The Master. The write-up on the War Chief on page 43 lists him as an Ally of the Master, and says that he wants vengeance on The Master for events that happened on Gallifrey (FASA postulates a failed revolution) and that he actively hates The Master. Allen I've been reading the old FASA game stuff myself to see if I can get some inspiration out of the old adventures and all, and in "The Legions of Death" adventure, it is strongly hinted if not stated that the War Chief is a previous version of the Master. Personally, I don't subscribe to that belief at all. From the Legions of Death module, page 34: "Known only as the War Chief, this renegade Time Lord was associated with The Master at the time of the Prydonian Academy revolution..." "The War Chief is supremely ambitious, a student of the Master's gospel of conquest and domination over time and space." Sounds more like an associate/flunky at the time of the revolution to me...unless there were some serious violating of the Laws of Time going on (which would not be uncharacteristic of The Master) on Gallifrey itself. Allen EDIT: This is not really relevant to the discussion at hand - my apologies.
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Post by glamourweaver on Feb 8, 2010 10:33:25 GMT
I liked the idea that the Warchief was the Master - it would be consistent with his modus operandi (allying with an alien race bent on conquest he intends to betray) and his dynamic with the Doctor (he wants to lure the Doctor into joining him with subtle implacation he knows him, the Doctor tells Zoe & Jamie to run as soon as he lays eyes on him). Remember "Warchief" is just his rank in the alien military, not his Time Lord title-name. I think ti could definitely be the pre-Delgado incarnation of the Master.
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Post by Kit on Feb 8, 2010 17:45:37 GMT
I liked the idea that the Warchief was the Master - it would be consistent with his modus operandi (allying with an alien race bent on conquest he intends to betray) and his dynamic with the Doctor (he wants to lure the Doctor into joining him with subtle implacation he knows him, the Doctor tells Zoe & Jamie to run as soon as he lays eyes on him). Remember "Warchief" is just his rank in the alien military, not his Time Lord title-name. I think ti could definitely be the pre-Delgado incarnation of the Master. It always interests me that the Time Lords are not shown to retrieve the War Chief's body. Of course, the concept of Time Lord Regeneration is still in its infancy in this story too.
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Post by theseer on Feb 12, 2010 20:12:26 GMT
Hello everyone, My first post on here and I hope it's a useful one. The reason why the Master turns up during the 3rd Doctors era on his last life (or last but one if his decayed form was a failed regeneration) is explained in the Missing Adventure Dr Who book The Dark Path. In this book the Master is trapped in a black hole at it's conclusion and it takes him most of his lives to escape. This book is also meant to explain the reason why he chose such an evil existence. Of course opinion is divided if these books are canon or not so I suppose it's up to the reader. You can read the entire plot of the book from the Dr Who reference Guide (which is also a great source for background on the Doctors adventures). A direct link to The Dark Path can be found here: www.drwhoguide.com/who_ma32.htmBe warned though as it tells you the entire plot it's one big spoiler if you were interested in buying the book.
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Post by da professor on Feb 17, 2010 16:10:03 GMT
In his debut episode it is actually stated that the Master has used all his regenerations. His condition in the Deadly Assassin is either what happens if a Timelord with no regenerations left refuses to die or a failed attempt to regenerate for a 13th time.
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Post by JohnK on Feb 18, 2010 15:35:06 GMT
Hullo, Da Professor, In his debut episode it is actually stated that the Master has used all his regenerations. His condition in the Deadly Assassin is either what happens if a Timelord with no regenerations left refuses to die or a failed attempt to regenerate for a 13th time. The Master's first story was "Terror of the Autons", back in the Pertwee days. I would appreciate seeing the exact lines of dialogue that state this, please.
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Post by Null and Void on Feb 18, 2010 15:59:59 GMT
I thought that the 12 Regenerations wasn't established until 'The Deadly Assassin' with Tom Baker?
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Post by JohnK on Feb 18, 2010 16:48:01 GMT
Hullo, Null and Void, I thought that the 12 Regenerations wasn't established until 'The Deadly Assassin' with Tom Baker? That's what I had thought, too, and was the reason for asking Da Professor for the proof in the pudding.
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Post by da professor on Feb 24, 2010 16:03:25 GMT
Having just looked at it again, it appears I misremembered. It was in the Deadly Assassin that they said he'd used them all and I just assumed Delgado was the last true incarnation because the depiction there, and in the Keeper of Traken before he possessed Tremas, are of a decaying form which should not be alive. Glad someone's around to keep me on my toes.
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Roger
2nd Incarnation
Lord Of Time And Space
Posts: 74
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Post by Roger on Aug 17, 2012 20:24:53 GMT
I'd add that the Master is actually pretty good at regenerating - being able to jump between bodies and hold himself together in only-mostly-dead form in between. So it's possible that all of his natural incarnations looked largely like Roger Delgado... I think you've got it. Romana had that ability to a degree, but the Master seems to have pretty much MASTERed that skill. Wow! You all have brought up some greats points about the Master that I had never even thought of before. Thanx for clearing up that War Chief/Monk thing. It didn't seem at all right when I first heard it not too long ago.
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