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Post by Matt Johnston on Jan 15, 2010 23:57:26 GMT
The Doctor allegedly fell in love with Rose Tyler. She gets banished off to Pete's World and a couple of episodes later he's chatting up Martha Jones.
In "School Reunion" in S2 of the reboot, it's certainly implied that the Doctor and Sarah Jane Smith were more than just fellow travellers. She clung to him like a 50s scream queen and her emotion at his return in that episode hinted more to me.
So - opinions - is the Doctor a serial gigolo? Is Torchwood just a bit more visible with what we all know about time travellers and their laissez-faire ways?
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Post by Curufea on Jan 16, 2010 9:36:24 GMT
How many years do you estimate that a couple need to be together to be a couple? How many years do they need to be apart in order to move on and not be regarded as a gigolo?
How much time is spent "off camera" - is it years? Decades? Do travelers in the TARDIS age at the normal rate?
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Post by renegadetimelord on Jan 16, 2010 17:05:50 GMT
My general opinion on this whole query is 'no'. The Doctor forms strong relationships with the people - might be down to that Time Lord telepathic sensitivity, but more likely he's just got a soft centre in one or more of his hearts. However, I'm not sure what Curufea is even asking?! I thought I'd stumbled into the Help page of a teenage girls' magazine: How many years do you estimate that a couple need to be together to be a couple? How many years do they need to be apart in order to move on and not be regarded as a gigolo? Um... How much time is spent "off camera" - is it years? Decades? Do travelers in the TARDIS age at the normal rate? Certainly in many cases we can assume unless an episode following another contains direct action from the previous, very little is likely to have happened in between. So, 'Voyage of the Damned' pretty much happens immediately after 'Last of the Time Lords' - aside from the slightly bizarre intervention of 'Timecrash'. Nothing else could have happened between the two. However, most other stories throughout the last four / five seasons could have had one or more adventures inbetween - many of them featured in the Dr Who novels. I suspect the time between episodes could be days or weeks, less likely months, certainly not years (unless the Doctor is travelling alone, in which case, maybe).
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Post by Matt Johnston on Jan 16, 2010 17:22:53 GMT
I was mentioning those very specific cases because of what has been seen on the screen in recent episodes.
Now, if it was Jack Harkness, then there'd be no doubt.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 16, 2010 17:24:27 GMT
Certainly in many cases we can assume unless an episode following another contains direct action from the previous, very little is likely to have happened in between. I disagree, (though, to be fair, you appear to be contradicting yourself on this later in your same post) If anything it's the other way around. Unless the episode is clearly shown to be following on from the other, we can't assume anything about what might have happened. It could happen within hours of the last episode, or days or even months. I can't remember if we saw it in later episodes (Martha/Donna) but certainly in the Rose eps dialogue strongly suggested that there had been many adventures/trips that had not been televised, presumably between episodes. Indeed, in "Love & Monsters" and "Blink" we explicitly see "other adventures" that aren't televised (Elton is saved by the Doctor, the Hoix ... in Blink Martha and the Doctor are rushing off to confront something or other when Sally gives the Doctor her file...) Whether time is slower within the TARDIS is an interesting question, but I'd guess not. Although it might explain why the Doctor's always getting his age wrong ... a year in the TARDIS might be only 320 days, or something like that ... or it might even fluctuate
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Post by renegadetimelord on Jan 16, 2010 17:32:32 GMT
You're spot on... I muddled the first sentence, which should have indicated that unless you see something at the end of an episode that directly connects to the start of the next, then you can assume almost anything might have happened in between.
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Post by renegadetimelord on Jan 16, 2010 17:35:28 GMT
Whether time is slower within the TARDIS is an interesting question, but I'd guess not. Although it might explain why the Doctor's always getting his age wrong ... a year in the TARDIS might be only 320 days, or something like that ... or it might even fluctuate I'd say the time within the TARDIS is 'real time' (as defined by the Time Lords), whereas pretty much everyone else uses a localised interpretation of what they perceive as time. (Where's the smiley for a sarcasm alert...?)
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Post by Null and Void on Jan 16, 2010 18:43:59 GMT
I have to agree with Renegadetimelord... The answer, in my opinion is "No." Rose notwithstanding, the Doctor has always had a more avuncular relationship with his companions. The First, Fifth, and seventh Doctor treated them as his children and grandchildren, the second, third, and sixth as nieces and nephews... The ninth was the first 'romantic' doctor, and I wouldn't even say the ninth was all that interested in romance either. The Tenth really strikes me as an anomaly. I just never could buy into his relationship with Rose.... it made no sense to me.
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cliffr
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 69
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Post by cliffr on Jan 17, 2010 20:17:51 GMT
The ninth was the first 'romantic' doctor, and I wouldn't even say the ninth was all that interested in romance either. I don't know; the fourth and eighth doctors both seemed open to romance as well (what little we saw of eight anyway). And even the first doctor wasn't above flirting with old Aztec ladies (though whether this was just a means to get the information he wanted is up for debate).
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Post by Null and Void on Jan 17, 2010 21:27:05 GMT
The ninth was the first 'romantic' doctor, and I wouldn't even say the ninth was all that interested in romance either. I don't know; the fourth and eighth doctors both seemed open to romance as well (what little we saw of eight anyway). And even the first doctor wasn't above flirting with old Aztec ladies (though whether this was just a means to get the information he wanted is up for debate). Eighth is the one I meant... I mistyped. Fourth though? Where do you see that? The closest there might me there was Romana, and that was not only extremely subtle, it was also a special case as they were the same species...
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Post by ugavine on Jan 25, 2010 16:22:23 GMT
As you probably know Tom & Lalla married, so a lot of that on screen chemistry was for real. They are certainly one of my favourite Doctor/companion pairings.
The 10th Doctor pretty much explains it in School Reunion, his companions grow old and die. His hearts are constantly broken. So while I see the Doctor trying to avoid getting too invovled, for his own sake, sometimes he meets someone special like Rose.
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Post by Null and Void on Jan 25, 2010 16:45:23 GMT
Yep, they were married... and I think that the implied romance was just the real life one. Tom Baker himself stated in an interview that I read years ago (so I can't cite the source... sorry) that he had very specific ideas about the Doctor and that "You can't suddenly have the Doctor become interested in, say, romance, because he just doesn't have emotions like that..." And I stand by my assertion that the romance with Rose made little sense.
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Post by Kit on Jan 25, 2010 18:15:02 GMT
And I stand by my assertion that the romance with Rose made little sense. Post Traumatic Stress from the Time War :-)
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Post by Curufea on Jan 25, 2010 21:39:35 GMT
I put it down to she's probably the first noble character since the war he's encountered and that hooked him.
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Post by ugavine on Jan 26, 2010 10:33:22 GMT
Susan was his Grand-daughter, nothing in the series says otherwise. So he must of had a son/daughter of his own. So I don't think it's out of the question that The Doctor would have a relationship with someone. And the romance with Rose was one of the most refreshing storylines in Doctor Who for say, well, sixteen years
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Post by glamourweaver on Jan 26, 2010 12:28:30 GMT
I know it wasn't intended by the writers, but I'm willing to accept Tom & Lalla's on screen chemistry as being the case for Doctor(4) & Romana(2).
I disagree with Matt's interpretation of "School Reunion" - the Doctor did not have romantic feelings for Sarah Jane, and whether she had them for him at the time is debatable, though her feelings were so strong she measured future men in her life against how amazing he was. They did not have a romantic or physical relationship.
As for Rose - I think it's safe to say that after the extinction of all Time Ladies in existence, human women started looking a lot better to the Doctor.
Though technically speaking (Null & Void) the Ninth was not the first romantic Doctor - the eighth was. That is easy to forget obviously.
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Post by tashkal on Jan 26, 2010 17:55:44 GMT
Well, a lot of people like to make a big deal about forgetting the Eighth. I do remember seeing it on TV, back when it first aired, though, and being shocked at the kiss. I went back over it when I was statting up Grace for my game (and the write-ups board here) and I always remembered the kisses (especially the last one) as being more passionate than they actually were on second viewing. And the second was the only one that really had clearly a romantic interpretation (the first being potentially just exuberance at regaining his memory). I do find it interesting that this was one of the things that came forward into the new shows, though.
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Post by Null and Void on Jan 26, 2010 18:10:54 GMT
Technically, I corrected myself. It was the Eighth, and I just mistyped ninth for some reason.
The idea of the Doctor having a romance doesn't actually bother me all that much... what bothered me was that it should be Rose. I just cannot see the chemistry between them and felt like it was being forced on me. And then what made it worse was constantly refering to it once Rose was gone.
Nope... I can do with putting it all in the past and moving on.
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Post by n01h3r3 on Jan 26, 2010 22:49:45 GMT
I disagree with Matt's interpretation of "School Reunion" - the Doctor did not have romantic feelings for Sarah Jane, and whether she had them for him at the time is debatable, though her feelings were so strong she measured future men in her life against how amazing he was. They did not have a romantic or physical relationship. But does that make their relationship any less strong? The Doctor demonstrably feels very strongly for the people who accompany him. Afterall, if he didn't, they'd be unlikely to stick around for long. Similarly, the Doctor makes a very strong impression on people - he might obfuscate the truth about his identity, but he doesn't hide who he is as a person. The 9th/10th Doctor and Rose... you've got an impressionable girl in her late teens who has never seen or considered anything on the scale of what the Doctor shows her. That's going to leave one hell of an impression. On the other hand, you've got the Doctor who has just lost his entire species and is deeply affected by loneliness and guilt, whose temper and patience are at their limit... who suddenly finds someone new to share the universe with, reminds him of the wonder and enthusiasm that the war took out of him. Needless to say, that's going to make them very close, and it's something special that defines their time together, and starts the Doctor's recovery from the shock and trauma of everything he's been through (something which continues through his time with Martha and Donna). It might not quite be romantic love - certainly, I don't think the Doctor thinks or reacts only in those terms, but rather something much broader - but it's not just friendship either.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 26, 2010 23:39:56 GMT
So.... River Song? Getting married to Elizabeth I? Renette?
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Post by Kit on Jan 26, 2010 23:45:17 GMT
Getting married to Elizabeth I? The less said about that, the better I feel. dumb dumb dumb throwaway bit to tie up a loose end.
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 27, 2010 0:06:48 GMT
Big enough to notice, small enough to ignore. So let's move along
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Post by Curufea on Jan 27, 2010 0:21:47 GMT
Hard to know if those events occured, or if it was just the Doctor making up stories. I generally try not to take everything that every character says as truth just because the genre is science fiction (or fantasy). It's a habit we often fall prey to as fans. That and retconning continuity where there isn't any nor was ever meant to be any
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 27, 2010 20:41:08 GMT
True. But that still leaves River Song to discuss
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Post by Kit on Jan 27, 2010 21:25:03 GMT
True. But that still leaves River Song to discuss I believe we'll learn more about this in series 5.
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Post by n01h3r3 on Jan 27, 2010 22:06:26 GMT
Yet to be seen. I've a feeling that River Song only knows the 11th, maybe 12th Doctor during her time, as she seems to assume that her meeting with the Doctor in Silence in the Library is an encounter with a later incarnation (he's the Doctor, but not one she's familiar with... easy to assume that he's regenerated since she last saw him), until his lack of knowledge of her gives his relative youth away. Getting caught up in something bizarre that goes way beyond his ability to control and gets him into trouble... happens to him a lot, though it seldom ends in marriage. Certainly, though, he seems more prone to that sort of reckless whimsy towards the end of his 10th incarnation than during his 9th, though that might also be to do with the fact that he's had his doom foretold and he'd rather not face it, so he ends up getting embroiled in all sorts of lunacy as a way to distract himself from it. An ancient and knowledgeable being he may be, and one who won't stand for an injustice... but he's not above being petty or selfish either. He demonstrably admires a great many human historical figures for a variety of reasons, and often shows a great affection for humanity in general. In the case of Reinette, she was the one who started things (she kissed him, not the other way around), and later managed to (through his own telepathic abilities) make a connection with him that's difficult to dismiss. There's also the matter of culture. It's well-established that Captain Jack Harkness will flirt with anything that moves, more-or-less, and this is partially to do with the culture of his time (he is, afterall, a 51st-century omnisexual man who'll be in the physical prime of his life for millennia... so many species to 'dance' with). The Doctor, who has seen so very much and empathises with humanity to a great degree may similarly (though unlikely to the same extent as Jack) have a different set of standards and definitions when it comes to love and relationships. He isn't, afterall, a human being, no matter how much he may appear like one. And, well, he's being young and frivolous in his old age - having gotten past the centuries of being "old and important, like you do when you're young" (as he says to his younger self in Time Crash).
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Post by tashkal on Jan 27, 2010 22:32:03 GMT
All I'm going to add is that back in "The Shakespeare Code," Elizabeth I must have recognized the Doctor and wanted him executed for some reason... ;D
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Post by Curufea on Jan 28, 2010 2:50:18 GMT
In general, it can be said that authority and the Doctor don't get on well...
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cliffr
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 69
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Post by cliffr on Jan 31, 2010 8:14:44 GMT
So.... River Song? Getting married to Elizabeth I? Renette? Ten is just a major flirt. And now eleven will have to romance River Song or risk altering his own past.
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Post by Curufea on Jan 31, 2010 21:34:08 GMT
I don't think incarnations of the Doctor ever romance anyone. They simply impress the hell out of anyone who happens to find heroes romantic
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