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Post by kaemaril on Jan 16, 2010 0:22:10 GMT
Like how this is developing. Not much advice to give design-wise that hasn't already been said, though as to the question of having 'Bio Data' on page two, I would tend to be more in favour of it as having sections for it there on the sheet encourages players to think about it a bit more. Not that the GM isn't just going to motivate them to do it anyway, but every little helps. At the very least I would say have it as an optional second page. It's a nice thing to have on the sheet, but not 100% essential. Version 4 (Page 1 to the left, page 2 to the right. And remember! It looks better with the background I wish I could find a decent background where I knew the providence and could use it publically ... ) I really don't like Industria for the main body, 'cos it's boring to me, but it's perfectly serviceable for the success chart. I've put the 'biodata' back in with some big hexes, but ditched the 'personal goal' --- 'cos I'm not that impressed. Personality, background and appearance is good enough for me unless somebody desperate needs it in Things to do: dabble with the pixel positioning on some elements Thoughts, comments, suggestions?
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Post by zebaroth on Jan 16, 2010 5:56:06 GMT
nice
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Post by Curufea on Jan 16, 2010 9:23:18 GMT
My thoughts are - talk to the folk on Deviant Art, some may be willing to do you a background as a free commission - or in exchange for attribution or some other trade.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 16, 2010 12:31:30 GMT
My thoughts are - talk to the folk on Deviant Art, some may be willing to do you a background as a free commission - or in exchange for attribution or some other trade. Hmm. I'm not that familiar with the deviantart community. Any suggestions on the best way to approach this?
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 16, 2010 13:01:06 GMT
I think maybe another big hex (or half-hex) for "notes of some or any kind" might be good, rather than just scribbling in the blank spaces on the second page... Maybe you could also add the difficulty levels in there to go with the success/fail levels. Oh, and on that subject I think the middle "fail" state is 'Bad' isn't it?
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 16, 2010 14:23:22 GMT
I think maybe another big hex (or half-hex) for "notes of some or any kind" might be good, rather than just scribbling in the blank spaces on the second page... Maybe you could also add the difficulty levels in there to go with the success/fail levels. I'm not sure I could do both of these, not without shrinking what's already there ... and I'm kind of happy with the sizes so far. The only free bit really is bottom left. Which would you prefer I put in there? A notes bit or a typical difficulty numbers chart? Er ... yes. Well done, you have spotted the deliberate mistake and thus have passed the test. Ahem.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 16, 2010 16:27:35 GMT
Version 5. Once again, it's improved upon with a decent background. No, honest Changes:- Realized I'd designed the character sheet without considering print margins. D'oh! Moved some stuff around to try and fit it into the available A4 page. That was a tad tricky on page 2 - Added a little bit of colour. Just in the logo. What the hell. - Removed "appearance" hex on page 2 to make way for a bit more stuff. - Added difficulty numbers and a reminder of the game's "basic rule" - Added a small "notes" section to the bottom of page 2. Any thoughts, suggestions, comments, etc. TO DO:- Might still need to get a bit more 'pixel perfect' on some element's positioning. - Try and get a background I can actually use - Any suggestions? Comments, thoughts, suggestions etc always welcome. edit: Hmm. Wonder if it's worth shuffling equipment off to the second page and trying to get the success chart to fit on page 1 ... ?
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 16, 2010 18:30:35 GMT
I passed a test! Brilliant!
I like v5. And I think it's probably better to keep the difficulties and the success chart on the same page.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 16, 2010 19:32:53 GMT
I passed a test! Brilliant! I like v5. And I think it's probably better to keep the difficulties and the success chart on the same page. tbh, I'm not convinced you need difficulties on a char sheet. Most GMs I know don't go 'Make a very difficult' check and expect you to know what it is, they just say 'OK, this is very difficult. Can you beat 24?' or just 'The target to beat is 24'... Glad you like the rest of it, though. I'm going to redo these graphics in a higher DPI, 'cos it doesn't look all that good on paper at the moment.
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Post by Curufea on Jan 16, 2010 20:09:33 GMT
My thoughts are - talk to the folk on Deviant Art, some may be willing to do you a background as a free commission - or in exchange for attribution or some other trade. Hmm. I'm not that familiar with the deviantart community. Any suggestions on the best way to approach this? Sorry, I've not asked the group as a whole. I have talked to artists on Elfwood though about using their art for projects. It's another amateur art website collective. In that case it was just a matter of emailling the artist. There are likely ways to ask for commissions on the sites. Try the Job Opportunities section of their forum here - forum.deviantart.com/
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 16, 2010 20:29:39 GMT
I passed a test! Brilliant! I like v5. And I think it's probably better to keep the difficulties and the success chart on the same page. tbh, I'm not convinced you need difficulties on a char sheet. Most GMs I know don't go 'Make a very difficult' check and expect you to know what it is, they just say 'OK, this is very difficult. Can you beat 24?' or just 'The target to beat is 24'... Sometimes players like to know the difficulty levels, and sometimes they're not bothered. Pick whichever works for you
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 16, 2010 21:52:56 GMT
Sometimes players like to know the difficulty levels, and sometimes they're not bothered. Pick whichever works for you That's true. Well, I'll see what I can do
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 5:31:48 GMT
Version 7, now with added background! This is a bit of a rework, and is not complete - page 2 is missing, and I've got to put in the difficulty levels, but I really wanted to show that it looks quite nice with a background. And what a background! The background is courtesy of the incomparable Mr. rsaintjohn: please feel free to heap praise upon him - I know I have! To do: 1) Rethink page 2 for biodata. 2) Figure out where to put the 'typical difficulty numbers' chart. 3) AOB? Thoughts? Suggestions? Comments? edited to add: All graphic elements now 200+ dpi, so ought to print very nicely indeed. Hopefully!
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rsaintjohn
2nd Incarnation
The Threefold Man
Posts: 77
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Post by rsaintjohn on Jan 17, 2010 5:45:26 GMT
I can't believe how fast you've been whipping these out this evening... and it's 9:45 PST here!
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 5:51:34 GMT
I can't believe how fast you've been whipping these out this evening... and it's 9:45 PST here! Heh. It's 05:50 over here in Blighty, and even a night owl and borderline insomniac like myself has limits, so that'll be the last version for a few hours
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 12:52:06 GMT
Version 8, still with Mr. rsaintjohn's stunning background. This is page 1, which I'm pretty satisfied with so will 'sign off' on it unless anyone has any thoughts on it? Changes from previous version: - Coloured header elements changed from red to a dark blue hopefully somewhat reminiscent of a police box - Added difficulty numbers chart - top of column two now lines up with top of column one. Ditto for the bottom. Hopefully - couple of lines thickened to show up more Thoughts? Opinions? Comments? Suggestions? Onward to page 2 ...
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 17, 2010 13:57:19 GMT
Wow! I like it! Love the hexagoned success chart and the difficulties. And the background is fantastic!
Will page 2 see a return of the goals and appearance sections?
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Post by allivingstone on Jan 17, 2010 14:55:07 GMT
Thoughts? Opinions? Comments? Suggestions? I think the style of it looks pretty good, but I can see a few potential pitfalls as to its practicality. - Layout-wise, I'd suggest separating the Tech Level and Story Point data from the six core Attributes. This would make it clearer that they are different types of game mechanical component.
- There isn't anywhere to record Areas of Expertise.
- I think there should be somewhere to track current (i.e. injured) Attribute ratings. I'm not sure if this could be done while keeping the hex-box layout though.
- It could be useful to have a Tech Level penalty tracker on the sheet. Something with 1 to 12 in one column/row, with space to note penalties in an adjacent column/row. This would get the arithmetic out the way up front rather than during play.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 15:42:33 GMT
Layout-wise, I'd suggest separating the Tech Level and Story Point data from the six core Attributes. This would make it clearer that they are different types of game mechanical component. Hmm. OK, I'll have a think about that. It shouldn't be a problem. Yes. I know. That's deliberate, as I'm somewhat emulating the 'official' sheet ... and that doesn't have it, either. I'll have a think about that. But, in the meantime, here's a convenient and simple way of doing it: On the first point of damage put a pencil line through the top side of the hexagon, on the second point of damage put a pencil line through the next side clockwise, and so on. For normal humans, once all six sides are 'ticked off' you may have a problem ... Hexagons are wonderful things I dunno, you want the moon on a stick you do How would you do this? To do it properly requires a grid, as you want to have your tech level on the x-axis and the 'target' tech level on the y-axis (or vice-versa), you can't simply have one set of mods as it varies by your own tech level ... unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying? If so, could you give me some kind of example?
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Post by allivingstone on Jan 17, 2010 18:15:45 GMT
I like the idea about marking off a side of the hexagon.
Shame about the Areas of Expertise though - their lack immediately makes any character sheet (including the official one) useless to me.
I think you've picked me up wrong about the Tech Level tracker (probably because I was talking about both rows and columns*). What I'm actually meaning is something like this (for a TL5 native):
Tech Level 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 Penalty -4 -3 -2 -1 0 -2 -4 -6 -8 -10 -12 -14
The formatting is way off here but -4 should be under TL1 and -14 under TL12. I think it gets the point across well enough though (and I can't fathom quickly how to get the forum's table function to work).
Having this on the sheet would mean that a character with Time Traveller Trait(s) could have their specific modifiers ready to reference for any given technology they're trying to use.
*I was trying to say the table could run horizontally or vertically. My bad.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 18:38:11 GMT
I like the idea about marking off a side of the hexagon. I'm not just a pretty face, you know Meh. It's an optional rule that, hopefully, doesn't get that much use. I really don't want my players coming up with specialisations on every single one of their skills That's because the forum doesn't have a table function, just a clunky few buttons to slap some table HTML/code in. Is this the kind of thing you had in mind? 01 | 02 | 03 | 04 | 05 | 06 | 07 | 08 | 09 | 10 | 11 | 12 | -4 | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | -2 | -4 | -6 | -8 | -10 | -12 | -14 |
And you'd need one of these for every single TL presumably, so that's a 13 x 12 grid. Unless you've got a microscope handy that could consume a fair whack of character sheet space ...
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 18:43:16 GMT
Version 10, possible release candidate? As usual, background graphic by the incomparable rsainttjohn Changes: - Removed max story points and tech level to page 2, allowing for seperation from 'attributes block' - Added 'page 2' for bio data: Background, personality, appearance and personal goal (I hate that last one ). Added lil' hexes for home technology level and maximum story points. Thoughts, comments, offers of money, suggestions, etc welcome - especially since I'm close to release ...
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jan 17, 2010 18:44:55 GMT
And you'd need one of these for every single TL presumably, so that's a 13 x 12 grid. Unless you've got a microscope handy that could consume a fair whack of character sheet space ... Players could always write the penalty part in themselves, I suppose. I'd put it on the putative second sheet, where it's not needed as much Version 10, possible release candidate? Nice! I know you hate the goal but I think that if it were "goals" rather than "goal" it could be something for putting on original characters to clarify their 'intentions' somewhat. Good for original pre-gens too I would think.
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Post by Curufea on Jan 17, 2010 20:39:57 GMT
Very nice! I especially like the asymetrical aspects of the second page. Makes it much more interesting to look at.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 20:41:23 GMT
I like the idea about marking off a side of the hexagon. Shame about the Areas of Expertise though - their lack immediately makes any character sheet (including the official one) useless to me. I think you've picked me up wrong about the Tech Level tracker (probably because I was talking about both rows and columns*). What I'm actually meaning is something like this (for a TL5 native): . Would it be something like this? I've not put header or column info in there just yet, but the rows are the 'Home tech level' and the column are the 'target' tech levels. So read down to get to the tech level you are, then across to the target level. It looks colossal, but bear in mind that's a 200dpi image (aso, it's not blue - the background is transparent ) - having said that, it's still a fairly substantial chunk of character sheet real-estate.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 21:27:14 GMT
Hmm. My trusty laser is on the fritz Would anyone be able to give this a test print and see if it comes out OK? I can supply a PDF Also, I should think about putting some copyright info on this sheet. Something along the lines of 'Please, BBC/C7, don't sue me. Sheet design (C) me, AWESOME background graphic (C) rsaintjohn. I don't mind if you print the sheet or photocopy it or eat it, go to town ' Does anyone have any experience of CYA copyright in user-created character sheets? ;D
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Post by Curufea on Jan 17, 2010 22:33:29 GMT
No, but from what I do know of copyright law - you've used nothing but common words and layout. The only two things to worry about is the name Doctor Who, and the background image. So to cover the name, it would be best to mention it is meant for the C7 RPG which is licensed from the BBC. As to the background image - you probably want to use a Creative Commons Attribution license. Creative Commons are better defined than copyright, as they have the granularity to actually tell you what you can do with a work. I use CC all the time for my stuff.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 22:39:13 GMT
As to the background image - you probably want to use a Creative Commons Attribution license. Creative Commons are better defined than copyright, as they have the granularity to actually tell you what you can do with a work. I use CC all the time for my stuff. That would be down to rsaintjohn - he was kind enough to le me use his image, but whether he wants to public domain it, CC it or what have you is down to him.
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Post by Curufea on Jan 17, 2010 22:48:21 GMT
Yep, I'm just assuming he wants attribution. You could ask if he wants some of the other options too, such as share-alike (making derivative works) and non-commercial.
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Post by kaemaril on Jan 17, 2010 23:00:21 GMT
Yep, I'm just assuming he wants attribution. You could ask if he wants some of the other options too, such as share-alike (making derivative works) and non-commercial. Heck, maybe just "Character Sheet © Kaemaril. Background image © R Saint John. Doctor Who Adventures In Time & Space © Cubicle 7. Doctor Who ©/TM BBC. Permission given to Print/Photocopy"? In the unlikely event C7 think there's a problem I'll add any disclaimer they like ... as long as it's not half a page of A4
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