Examples of social Extended Conflicts

[Stormcrow]

It's easy to find examples of physical or mental Extended Conflicts in the show, and the effects of losing them. I'm curious about examples of social Extended Conflicts and their effects.

A social Extended Conflict will usually see an attacker applying his or her Ingenuity or Presence against the target's Resolve as damage. When the target drops to Resolve 0, it means the target gives up and will do whatever they're told, and the GM might give the target a Bad Trait.

So are there any good examples in Doctor Who of something that

• is an Extended Conflict,
• results in one side completely giving up and doing what they're told, and
• also results in the losing side developing a Bad Trait?

[CountClockwise]

If you look at the Hungry Earth/Cold blood page in the Eleventh Doctor sourcebook you find an example of an extended social conflict. It goes nowhere in story (not a bad thing just part of the plot) but if it played out one side would be worn down and relent.

Admittedly I have a headcold right now so I can't think straight but an example of what you want off the top of my head would be a complex seduction. You would need to find ways to flirt and make yourself presentable/exploit the target's weaknesses (you can see why I've only had one partner). The target 'giving up' would be having them fall madly in love with you and do your bidding. As for the bad trait it happens a bit rarer but in this case it could be an obsession trait from a too successful roll. Something like this happened in one of my games and it almost didn't end well but everything was fine in the end.

[misterharry]

As with the Hungry Earth/Cold Blood example, I don't think many social conflicts in Doctor Whogo the full distance. But how about the confrontation between Tegan and the Mara inside Tegan's mind in Kinda?

[Stormcrow]

I don't have the Eleventh Doctor Sourcebook. Does this describe the council scenes where they're trying to negotiate peace?

The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood might have good examples of what I'm looking for. Doctor Who is full of people who are blindly intolerant of some person or group; this could be reflected with a Phobia Bad Trait (you might not be literally afraid of them, but you get the same penalty to "attempt to approach [them] or stay calm"). Or you could call it "Special: Intolerance of [group]." Losing a protracted argument with a representative of a group might be the event that earns you that Bad Trait. I don't know if we've ever seen this happen in any episode, though.

Teagan versus the Mara is an example of a mental Conflict, not a social one. There are lots of mental Conflicts in Doctor Who—hypnosis, technological mind control, possession, battles of willpower manifested in technology. Teagan's experience definitely led to her gaining the Unadventurous Bad Trait (again?), but it's not the same as a social Conflict.

I like the hypothetical example of seduction, though this isn't something we're likely to find an example of in Doctor Who.

[misterharry]

Apr 7, 2017 13:30:12 GMT Stormcrow said:

Teagan versus the Mara is an example of a mental Conflict, not a social one. There are lots of mental Conflicts in Doctor Who—hypnosis, technological mind control, possession, battles of willpower manifested in technology. Teagan's experience definitely led to her gaining the Unadventurous Bad Trait (again?), but it's not the same as a social Conflict.

I guess so, though it plays out like a social conflict in the story.

OK, how about the scenes in which the 7th Doctor talks somebody out of shooting him, such as in The Happiness Patrol. Or in Dragonfire, when he engages a guard in a conversation about the nature of existence?

[Stormcrow]

Apr 7, 2017 13:48:54 GMT misterharry said:

I guess so, though it plays out like a social conflict in the story.

For television presentation, mental struggles are often depicted as two sides in a nebulous space talking to each other. But it's really just a visual representation of a mental conflict. The Doctor versus the Cyberiad is another example of this.

OK, how about the scenes in which the 7th Doctor talks somebody out of shooting him, such as in The Happiness Patrol. Or in Dragonfire, when he engages a guard in a conversation about the nature of existence?

Those aren't Extended Conflicts; they're Simple Conflicts. There's no ongoing struggle, no back and forth of actions and reactions, no wearing down of Attributes. And even if they were Extended Conflicts, nobody's going to gain a Bad Trait from being fast-talked by the Doctor into not shooting him or have their world-view changed because they came across a philosophical guard.

Finding examples of social Simple Conflicts in Doctor Who is easy: Donna ordering Lance into the elevator; Amy telling Rory what to do; every time the Doctor confuses a guard. In each case the winner gets what he or she wants with no lasting damage to the loser. Finding examples of social Extended Conflicts is not so easy.

[Stormcrow]

Another example of a social Extended Conflict would be anytime a character talks a computer into destroying itself or locking itself into a loop—but since the computer is inevitably destroyed, there is no chance of Bad Traits to develop.

[misterharry]

I'm also trying to remember if there are any interrogation scenes which would fit what you're after. But they tend to be interrogations of the Doctor (who, again, doesn't tend to get additional Bad traits as a result) and often involve the mind probe or suchlike, so are probably mental conflicts or resistance to pain. Hmmm...

[Hedgewick]

Apr 7, 2017 14:22:56 GMT misterharry said:

I'm also trying to remember if there are any interrogation scenes which would fit what you're after. But they tend to be interrogations of the Doctor (who, again, doesn't tend to get additional Bad traits as a result) and often involve the mind probe or suchlike, so are probably mental conflicts or resistance to pain. Hmmm...

How about the interrogations seen in "Paradise Towers" and "The Idiot's Lantern"? In both cases, over the course of an extended exchange, the Doctor is able to twist the social conflict and turn the tables on his interrogators.

[Stormcrow]

The interrogation scenes in "Paradise Towers" and "The Idiot's Lantern" are excellent examples of extended Social Conflicts. But do they result in the interrogators gaining a Bad Trait?

[Stormcrow]

It just occurred to me that there's a counterexample in the rule books, but one that only appears in the Player's Guide (pp. 60–61 of the first edition). In it, Donna is trying to convince a guard at H. C. Clements to let her into the building. The GM treats it as an Extended Conflict. Once the guard's Resolve is reduced to 0, he simply blushes and lets Donna in, and once she's past his Resolve goes back to normal "with no ill effects—though he may lose his job if Donna is caught."

This is a reminder that not every social failure will result in gaining Bad Traits; it's up to the GM to decide the situation warrants that. But I'd still like to find an example in Doctor Who that does lead to that result.