Post by senko on Jun 11, 2016 11:32:55 GMT
I was looking at an official adventure and the DC's really stood out to me the first few checks are DC 16, 12, 20 and 15. However a starting character is likely to have 3-5 in any given value with a maybe 7 if its expertise which means they're opposing these DC's with 2d6 + 6-12. That means they have a very low chance of actually passing these checks. If I understand right someone dealing with something out of their area of skill could be . . .
16 - 1 (attribute) + 4 (no skill at all) = Need to roll an 19 on the first check which is impossible.
12 - 1 (attribute) + 4 (no skill at all) = Need to roll an 15 on the second check which is again impossible.
20 - 1 (attribute) + 4 (no skill at all) = Need to roll a 23 on the third check, again impossible.
15 - 1 (attribute) + 4 (no skill at all) = Need to roll a 18 on the fourth check, again impossible.
Basically they are not only going to fail they are going to fail badly but its not their area of skill so ok lets look at someone who is specialized in that field. . .
16 - 6 (Max Attribute) - 7 (max skill level and an area of expertise) = Need to roll a 3 on the first check.
12 - 6 (Max Attribute) - 7 (max skill level and an area of expertise) = Already have more on the second check.
20 - 6 (Max Attribute) - 7 (max skill level and an area of expertise) = Need to roll a 7 on the third check.
15 - 6 (Max Attribute) - 7 (max skill level and an area of expertise) = Need to roll a 2 on the third check, so at least they'll succeed well here.
So someone who is utterly Amazing (Best of hmanity) + (PHD level knowledge) has a decent chance on some checks but most people aren't likely to be that specialized as you do have 6 attributes and 12 skills to pick from so lets take a look at how the Doctor and Clara would fare. . . .
Doctor
16 - 3 (Attribute) - 4 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 9 on the first check, this is on 2d6.
12 - 4 (Attribute) - 4 (Skill level) = Needs to roll a 4.
20 - 4 (Attribute) - 3 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 13 on the third check, HE can't do it.
15 - 4 (Attribute) - 2 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 14 on the third check, Another check the doctor can't do.
Clara
16 - 2 (Attribute) - 3 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 11 on the first check.
12 - 3 (Attribute) - 2 (Skill level) = Needs to roll a 7.
20 - 3 (Attribute) - 4 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 13 on the third check, She also can't do it.
15 - 3 (Attribute) - 1 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 11 on the third check, She can just do it.
Now Clara and the Doctor as stated are far better than a starting character is likely to be both in terms of maximums in certain areas and all around versatility and yet there is one check neither of them has a hope of succeeding on, a check Clara has very little chance of succeeding on and the doctor can't, a check neither is likely to make and one the Doctor should have no trouble with unless his player rolls badly. Essentially the main characters from the TV show are likely to fail 3 of the first 4 checks and the later ones in the book are the same levels. The opposed checks are just as bad with you looking at things like 11 + 2d6 so the players would need an average value of 6 in attribute and skill to challenge them on even grounds. A DC 15 is described as "not especially difficult" and describes what you get for a fantastic success. Yet to get said success you need a result of 24 or a 12 on the dice roll, a skill of 5 + expertise area and an attribute of 5. If its not your area of expertise you can't get that even with an attribute of 6.
Even allowing for a starting group of players who will have 4 or so people to cover all the bases these check DC's seem very high to me so I'm wondering is this the normal level of difficulty a check should be at or do people usually put lower values in their games for most challenges e.g. one's closer to that DC 12 unless its something very difficult and complex e.g rewiring the Daleks masteer deus ex machina?
16 - 1 (attribute) + 4 (no skill at all) = Need to roll an 19 on the first check which is impossible.
12 - 1 (attribute) + 4 (no skill at all) = Need to roll an 15 on the second check which is again impossible.
20 - 1 (attribute) + 4 (no skill at all) = Need to roll a 23 on the third check, again impossible.
15 - 1 (attribute) + 4 (no skill at all) = Need to roll a 18 on the fourth check, again impossible.
Basically they are not only going to fail they are going to fail badly but its not their area of skill so ok lets look at someone who is specialized in that field. . .
16 - 6 (Max Attribute) - 7 (max skill level and an area of expertise) = Need to roll a 3 on the first check.
12 - 6 (Max Attribute) - 7 (max skill level and an area of expertise) = Already have more on the second check.
20 - 6 (Max Attribute) - 7 (max skill level and an area of expertise) = Need to roll a 7 on the third check.
15 - 6 (Max Attribute) - 7 (max skill level and an area of expertise) = Need to roll a 2 on the third check, so at least they'll succeed well here.
So someone who is utterly Amazing (Best of hmanity) + (PHD level knowledge) has a decent chance on some checks but most people aren't likely to be that specialized as you do have 6 attributes and 12 skills to pick from so lets take a look at how the Doctor and Clara would fare. . . .
Doctor
16 - 3 (Attribute) - 4 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 9 on the first check, this is on 2d6.
12 - 4 (Attribute) - 4 (Skill level) = Needs to roll a 4.
20 - 4 (Attribute) - 3 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 13 on the third check, HE can't do it.
15 - 4 (Attribute) - 2 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 14 on the third check, Another check the doctor can't do.
Clara
16 - 2 (Attribute) - 3 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 11 on the first check.
12 - 3 (Attribute) - 2 (Skill level) = Needs to roll a 7.
20 - 3 (Attribute) - 4 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 13 on the third check, She also can't do it.
15 - 3 (Attribute) - 1 (Skill level) = Need to roll a 11 on the third check, She can just do it.
Now Clara and the Doctor as stated are far better than a starting character is likely to be both in terms of maximums in certain areas and all around versatility and yet there is one check neither of them has a hope of succeeding on, a check Clara has very little chance of succeeding on and the doctor can't, a check neither is likely to make and one the Doctor should have no trouble with unless his player rolls badly. Essentially the main characters from the TV show are likely to fail 3 of the first 4 checks and the later ones in the book are the same levels. The opposed checks are just as bad with you looking at things like 11 + 2d6 so the players would need an average value of 6 in attribute and skill to challenge them on even grounds. A DC 15 is described as "not especially difficult" and describes what you get for a fantastic success. Yet to get said success you need a result of 24 or a 12 on the dice roll, a skill of 5 + expertise area and an attribute of 5. If its not your area of expertise you can't get that even with an attribute of 6.
Even allowing for a starting group of players who will have 4 or so people to cover all the bases these check DC's seem very high to me so I'm wondering is this the normal level of difficulty a check should be at or do people usually put lower values in their games for most challenges e.g. one's closer to that DC 12 unless its something very difficult and complex e.g rewiring the Daleks masteer deus ex machina?
