rulandor
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 149
Favourite Doctors: Three, Four, Seven, War, Twelve
|
Post by rulandor on Mar 10, 2016 0:15:44 GMT
As I am preparing for a campaign based in 19th century Britain with some occult themes, I looked up what the system has to say about magic in the game. In the 7th doctor supplement, I found this discussed under the episode Battlefield.
Now, as Morgaine is an NSC, her Sorcery trait and her spells don't show point values. How would you go about giving them point values - I mean, the trait and possible spells?
One idea I am entertaining is to treat spells as immaterial gadgets. Thus I would price the Sorcery trait like the Gadget trait and spells like Gadgets with appropriate function. I don't know yet how well that is going to work, though.
|
|
|
Post by zebaroth on Mar 10, 2016 4:56:27 GMT
i would surgest a catch all skill like i have seen in some other games it has been used under a few names depending on the game dynamic powers is waht they use in BESM for it but it is also in savage wrolds system under another name it can cover a wide range of skills including magic
|
|
misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,236
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
|
Post by misterharry on Mar 10, 2016 9:05:57 GMT
Now, as Morgaine is an NSC, her Sorcery trait and her spells don't show point values. How would you go about giving them point values - I mean, the trait and possible spells? I'd say that her Sorcery is a gateway trait, so would cost maybe 2 points and allows her to buy other traits (including Alien and Gadget traits) to act as her spells. Of the spells listed for her: - Lightning Bolts - as this is a ranged attack with Lethal damage, it's equivalent to buying Natural Weapon (Major) x2, so costs 4 points
- Stealing Memories - I'd cost this as similar to Psychic, plus it drains life so maybe 3 points
- Disintegrating Objects - equivalent to the Gadget trait Delete, so a Major trait costing 2 points
- Healing - I can't think of an existing equivalent (the Healer trait in the 2nd Doctor Sourcebook only gives a bonus to Medicine rolls), but I'd suggest this should be a Special trait costing 3 points
|
|
|
Post by Escher on Mar 10, 2016 10:43:25 GMT
Nathaniel Torson (author of The Time Traveller's Companion) wrote a fairly concise post about how to do Magic in the game here: dwaitas.proboards.com/thread/1599/magic-doctor-whoIf you are so inclined, the Buffy RPG Magic system would fit perfectly, with a little hacking to weld it into the Vortex system.
|
|
rulandor
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 149
Favourite Doctors: Three, Four, Seven, War, Twelve
|
Post by rulandor on Mar 10, 2016 15:41:49 GMT
This is already a plethora of intriguing propositions. The mechanically most solid seems to me the idea of misterharry, but I am going to explore other ideas as well, before deciding on a way to go in the campaign.
I have the complete range of the Buffy RPG including the Magic Box supplement, and already considered adapting that system, but it may be not so easy as it seems at first glance. For example, a Vortex trait has only three categories: minor, major, special. Okay, you can do a lot with special, and you would need to do that when adapting the BRPG Sorcery quality. But I'll try out that venue.
|
|
|
Post by Escher on Mar 10, 2016 16:12:23 GMT
I have the complete range of the Buffy RPG including the Magic Box supplement, and already considered adapting that system, but it may be not so easy as it seems at first glance. For example, a Vortex trait has only three categories: minor, major, special. Okay, you can do a lot with special, and you would need to do that when adapting the BRPG Sorcery quality. But I'll try out that venue. What I was thinking is that only the Special version of the Trait could have access to the more open elements of the Buffy system, as in players could manipulate the magic as they wish. Perhaps Minor and Major Traits would be pure book-spell casting only, the Special Trait being saved for Sorcerers Supreme and entities. Taking the various modifiers for damage, range, targets affected etc, and then boiling it down to fit with Story Point use, so the Buffy difficulty level becomes the cost to cast in Story Points. There are a few discrepancies but then that's where the hacking and GM ingenuity comes in to hone it into something workable. It's also worth mentioning that Spell Books could be treated as Gadgets, having a few Spell Traits.
|
|
rulandor
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 149
Favourite Doctors: Three, Four, Seven, War, Twelve
|
Post by rulandor on Mar 10, 2016 16:52:41 GMT
What I was thinking is that only the Special version of the Trait could have access to the more open elements of the Buffy system, as in players could manipulate the magic as they wish. Perhaps Minor and Major Traits would be pure book-spell casting only, the Special Trait being saved for Sorcerers Supreme and entities. Taking the various modifiers for damage, range, targets affected etc, and then boiling it down to fit with Story Point use, so the Buffy difficulty level becomes the cost to cast in Story Points. There are a few discrepancies but then that's where the hacking and GM ingenuity comes in to hone it into something workable. It's also worth mentioning that Spell Books could be treated as Gadgets, having a few Spell Traits. Excellent! I like all that.
|
|
|
Post by Corone on Mar 12, 2016 19:46:21 GMT
Magic is always tricky in Who, as pretty much all the time it turns out to be advanced tech. I'd suggest a look at the Pendragon magic system. Rather than give an NPC specific spells. Give them areas of magical ability - like fire, healing, illusion etc. Then charge story points to create effects based on those abilities. This grants the character a lot of freedom, but limits them in terms of how often they can cast and what they are capable of. You also keep the option to declare it is still all just very advanced tech.
|
|
Catsmate
13th Incarnation
No longer living in a bad adaption of "A Journal of the Plague Year".
Posts: 3,730
Favourite Doctors: Thirteen, Six, Five, Two, Eight, Twelve, Nine, One, Eleven..
Traits: Eccentric, Insatiable Curiousity.
|
Post by Catsmate on Mar 16, 2016 13:29:05 GMT
I've been thinking about a form of 'scientific magic' that might fit into AITAS; brain hacking.
The premise is that *someone* (Silurians, Osirans et cetera) fiddled around with human development and left buried triggers that someone with the right knowledge can activate. This could be verbal (given in Enochian, Intrinsic or some similar 'root' language of course) or visual (symbols like the Yellow Sign) where the cues activate programming buried deep in the human mind. Some of these cues could be partly remembered (in degraded form) as 'mystic' symbols and incantations. The effects would be fairly subtle; there'd be no fireballs, levitation or unlocking doors (it's intended as a 'secret magic' type addition. But a human could be rendered insane, left unconscious or mentally pliable by the use of a few phrases or display of a symbol. Other effects could be physiological (death, blindness, seizures) similarly triggered by messing with the human brain.
Of course there'd be a downside; these effects take a toll on the human mind when used.
|
|
|
Post by Marnal on Mar 16, 2016 17:59:59 GMT
For what its worth, Faction Paradox 'magic' is based on the Grandfather going back to the time when Rassilon set down the laws of physics in the cosmos and slipping in some back door cheat codes into the mix.
|
|
Catsmate
13th Incarnation
No longer living in a bad adaption of "A Journal of the Plague Year".
Posts: 3,730
Favourite Doctors: Thirteen, Six, Five, Two, Eight, Twelve, Nine, One, Eleven..
Traits: Eccentric, Insatiable Curiousity.
|
Post by Catsmate on Mar 16, 2016 20:53:53 GMT
For what its worth, Faction Paradox 'magic' is based on the Grandfather going back to the time when Rassilon set down the laws of physics in the cosmos and slipping in some back door cheat codes into the mix. Conceptually similar, though toned down a few orders of magnitude. Though there's no reason that magic as 'reality hacking' couldn't be added; making use of glitches in the universe. A bit like magic in the Laundry, which relies heavily on manipulation of portals between different universes. Which would be an interesting addition to AITAS, maybe as a tool for a renegade Time Lord (naturally Gallifrey isn't into such dangerous fiddling with reality). Kinda reminiscent of the Order versus Chaos motif of Moorcock.
|
|
|
Post by zebaroth on Apr 22, 2016 21:24:01 GMT
For what its worth, Faction Paradox 'magic' is based on the Grandfather going back to the time when Rassilon set down the laws of physics in the cosmos and slipping in some back door cheat codes into the mix. Conceptually similar, though toned down a few orders of magnitude. Though there's no reason that magic as 'reality hacking' couldn't be added; making use of glitches in the universe. A bit like magic in the Laundry, which relies heavily on manipulation of portals between different universes. Which would be an interesting addition to AITAS, maybe as a tool for a renegade Time Lord (naturally Gallifrey isn't into such dangerous fiddling with reality). Kinda reminiscent of the Order versus Chaos motif of Moorcock. a way i was thinking you could have magic is logopaless wanted there to be magic so the made a mathematical code known as the the enigma and if you know how to read 33445%=090903ME=c8999-1129398475=5/74887867239 this you can do magic.
|
|
bilbo
2nd Incarnation
Posts: 83
|
Post by bilbo on Apr 23, 2016 6:00:06 GMT
I always liked a combo of Corone's and Pertwee's ideas. Maybe have levels of Sorcery, like Sorcery (minor), Sorcery (major), that gives you the ability to construct spells, kind of like constructing gadgets, out of 'components' using story points. And I would limit the number of story points you can use to build the spell (ie. gadget) by your sorcery level. For example, if a PC had Sorcery (minor) they could conjure a DnD style Open spell (Minor Gadget) for 1 Story Point (maybe you might require them to use a spell component like a hair pin), and then as long as the PC keeps that SP tied up with the spell they can use the spell like a gadget with the Open Trait. Once they turn the spell off, they no longer maintain the spell, and the SP goes back into their pool. Variants could be if you roll a 'Yes, but' it automatically deactivates the spell and you lose the SP, etc.... It's pretty simple really, you're essentially just creating 'gadgets' and calling them 'spells', the only real difference would be how they are 'built' - i.e. from junk in my garage (for a gadget) to spell components carried or found (or if you wanna be really liberal with the magic, the PCs could just conjure it out of the ether). Of course, spell books and magic objects are also just re-skinned gadgets too. Easy-peasy.
|
|
Catsmate
13th Incarnation
No longer living in a bad adaption of "A Journal of the Plague Year".
Posts: 3,730
Favourite Doctors: Thirteen, Six, Five, Two, Eight, Twelve, Nine, One, Eleven..
Traits: Eccentric, Insatiable Curiousity.
|
Post by Catsmate on Apr 23, 2016 9:46:10 GMT
I always liked a combo of Corone's and Pertwee's ideas. Maybe have levels of Sorcery, like Sorcery (minor), Sorcery (major), that gives you the ability to construct spells, kind of like constructing gadgets, out of 'components' using story points. And I would limit the number of story points you can use to build the spell (ie. gadget) by your sorcery level. I like it.
For example, if a PC had Sorcery (minor) they could conjure a DnD style Open spell (Minor Gadget) for 1 Story Point (maybe you might require them to use a spell component like a hair pin), and then as long as the PC keeps that SP tied up with the spell they can use the spell like a gadget with the Open Trait. Once they turn the spell off, they no longer maintain the spell, and the SP goes back into their pool. Variants could be if you roll a 'Yes, but' it automatically deactivates the spell and you lose the SP, etc.... It's pretty simple really, you're essentially just creating 'gadgets' and calling them 'spells', the only real difference would be how they are 'built' - i.e. from junk in my garage (for a gadget) to spell components carried or found (or if you wanna be really liberal with the magic, the PCs could just conjure it out of the ether). Of course, spell books and magic objects are also just re-skinned gadgets too. Easy-peasy. Rather like the Third Doctor's "time jammer" in The Time Monster constructed from a coat hanger, keys, kitchen weights, forks, a wine bottle and cork, a mug and bits of a broken coffee maker. It operated on scientific principles simply beyond TL6 science. It also reminds me a bit of Sapphire and Steel, especially Silver's ability to create devices from junk lying around. Or the shamble used by the witches of the Discworld.
|
|