S9 E12 'Hell Bent'

[Rassilon]

What did you think?

[ninjaconor]

Being honest, only ok. Seeing Gallifrey was great. The Doctor exiling Rassillon was great. Undoing literally all of the significance of Clara's death though was a ridiculously bad decision. Killing her off so definitely was one of the strongest choices the show has made and undoing that has just really weakened what was a fantastic story arc.

[Catsmate]

A bit saggy in the middle and the entire Clara's death plotline should have been left alone but reasonably good. I do like the Ashildr and Clara wandering the universe idea.

[zebaroth]

a tardis stuck as a diner i might have to use that one in my game
that was a hoot

[da professor]

Someone somewhere is writing a fanfic where Clara and Ashildr meet up with Jenny, the Doctor's Daughter, or the Ponds.

[Catsmate]

Dec 6, 2015 9:50:47 GMT da professor said:

Someone somewhere is writing a fanfic where Clara and Ashildr meet up with Jenny, the Doctor's Daughter, or the Ponds.

I do hope so.

[Escher]

I thought the entire premise and plot could have been done in 20 minutes. I thought the rest was just padding, but very good padding at that: a classic TARDIS interior; a prostrate regeneration; Gallifrey, The Matrix, etc etc.

I'm not sure what the agenda for bringing back Clara is. The emotional impact of her death gave the plot gravitas so why bring her back? Is she going to be a regular in 'Class' the new spin-off set at Coal Hill School? The series writer says not, so why? Seems an odd plot choice. I can see 'Class' working with Ashildr and Clara in their own classic TARDIS. That could be potentially amazing if well-written.
I also enjoyed seeing that the Shobogans improved their Technology Level from 1 to 4, making them into extras from Firefly. Not a bad thing, and I half-expected to hear a bottleneck slide acoustic guitar playing.

Not the strongest Season Finale I've seen but filled with enough fan-nuggets to make it work for me, and hopefully, with some portents of things to come.

[generalrose]

Dec 5, 2015 21:07:36 GMT ninjaconor said:

Being honest, only ok. Seeing Gallifrey was great. The Doctor exiling Rassillon was great. Undoing literally all of the significance of Clara's death though was a ridiculously bad decision. Killing her off so definitely was one of the strongest choices the show has made and undoing that has just really weakened what was a fantastic story arc.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.   

Clara's death in Face the Raven was beautiful and haunting. Clara wanted to be brave, she wanted to die with dignity for the sake of allowing one man to return to his wife and child. Did you see how distressed and disturbed Clara was when she realized the Doctor violated her agency, her choice, in bringing her back. I kept expecting the General to point out that Clara could only be in Stasis for 15 minutes or something along those lines, it would have been a great way to give Capaldi's Doctor the extended goodbye he apparently needed.   

How, did the Dalek, Cyberman and Weeping Angels make it so far into the Citadel that they were able to break into the Matrix Chambers? In Day of the Doctor it was incredible that the Daleks were able to break through Gallifrey's shields (and they even picked the right Gallifrey).    

As for Ashildir, I think that the quality of her scripts has been taking a step downwards with each appearance.

[misterharry]

I loved the sequences on Gallifrey, up to the descent into the Cloisters. After that, it all felt a bit flabby and a good 10 minutes could easily have been shaved off to tighten it up. Not sure how I feel about Clara's resurrection. I don't know why but I didn't find her death particularly emotional, for some reason, and her return was the same.

Overall, very enjoyable but could have been better.

[Escher]

Dec 6, 2015 17:25:31 GMT generalrose said:

How, did the Dalek, Cyberman and Weeping Angels make it so far into the Citadel that they were able to break into the Matrix Chambers? In Day of the Doctor it was incredible that the Daleks were able to break through Gallifrey's shields (and they even picked the right Gallifrey).   

I think if I'm not mistaken, these were leftovers from the 'Cloister Wars', as mentioned in the episode (?).

[generalrose]

Dec 6, 2015 17:31:35 GMT Escher said:

Dec 6, 2015 17:25:31 GMT generalrose said:

How, did the Dalek, Cyberman and Weeping Angels make it so far into the Citadel that they were able to break into the Matrix Chambers? In Day of the Doctor it was incredible that the Daleks were able to break through Gallifrey's shields (and they even picked the right Gallifrey).   

I think if I'm not mistaken, these were leftovers from the 'Cloister Wars', as mentioned in the episode (?).

They were, but the Dalek and Cybermen were too "new" to be part of the ancient Cloister Wars. I would have appreciated a Sontaran being stuck down there though.

[generalrose]

Dec 6, 2015 17:31:31 GMT misterharry said:

I loved the sequences on Gallifrey, up to the descent into the Cloisters. After that, it all felt a bit flabby and a good 10 minutes could easily have been shaved off to tighten it up. Not sure how I feel about Clara's resurrection. I don't know why but I didn't find her death particularly emotional, for some reason, and her return was the same.

Overall, very enjoyable but could have been better.

hey MisterHarry, totally unrelated to this thread, but I'm having trouble accessing your DWAITAS files on mediafire. I can pretty much only get into them when I'm signed out of my own mediafire account and then once I attempt to sign back in to follow them I'm brought back to my own main page.

[misterharry]

Dec 6, 2015 17:46:06 GMT generalrose said:

hey MisterHarry, totally unrelated to this thread, but I'm having trouble accessing your DWAITAS files on mediafire. I can pretty much only get into them when I'm signed out of my own mediafire account and then once I attempt to sign back in to follow them I'm brought back to my own main page.

Hmm, not sure what to suggest - does anyone else have this problem?

I used to have a problem with accessing my own files on Mediafire, and had to periodically clear my cache. I've not had to do that recently, but is this worth trying?

[Stormcrow]

I was ecstatic when it was clear that Clara could not be saved.

I was thrilled when the sonic screwdriver returned.

I was devastated when River Song showed up in the trailer.

MOFFAT, YOU IDIOT!!!!!

[DEN]

I think it would have been better if Clara could just outright NOT be saved. Instead of having the Doctor forget her it would have been better if he had to face up to his own inability to bring her back.

But I do like the idea of Clara and 'Me' traveling around in thier own TARDIS. Talk about wonky navigation, neither of them are even Galifreyian much less Time Lords.


(although Ashildr has literally billions of years of experience)

[zebaroth]

Dec 7, 2015 0:17:35 GMT DEN said:

I think it would have been better if Clara could just outright NOT be saved. Instead of having the Doctor forget her it would have been better if he had to face up to his own inability to bring her back.

But I do like the idea of Clara and 'Me' traveling around in thier own TARDIS. Talk about wonky navigation, neither of them are even Galifreyian much less Time Lords.


(although Ashildr has literally billions of years of experience)

i agree once again the impossible girl dose the impossible did the docotr not say that the corw thing would find you no matter where you went
or dose being time locked make it not able to find you

[zebaroth]

Dec 6, 2015 21:39:51 GMT Stormcrow said:

I was ecstatic when it was clear that Clara could not be saved.

I was thrilled when the sonic screwdriver returned.

I was devastated when River Song showed up in the trailer.

MOFFAT, YOU IDIOT!!!!!

i like river song besides she has meet every doctor at some point so she would capidie's at some point

[ninjaconor]

Dec 7, 2015 0:51:12 GMT zebaroth said:

Dec 6, 2015 21:39:51 GMT Stormcrow said:

I was ecstatic when it was clear that Clara could not be saved.

I was thrilled when the sonic screwdriver returned.

I was devastated when River Song showed up in the trailer.

MOFFAT, YOU IDIOT!!!!!

i like river song besides she has meet every doctor at some point so she would capidie's at some point

I'm glad to see her return too. Means she's not just going to be a Smith-era thing. Maybe we'll eventually see how she learned The Doctor's name.

[DEN]

I thought he told her his name when they got married?

[Stormcrow]

Nah, he said something like, "Look in my left eye."

[DEN]

After that.

[ninjaconor]

The impression I got was that he pretended to tell her his name, but actually told her to look in his eye. Maybe he did both.

EDIT: Nah. Looked it up on Netflix. You can see his lips moving during the whole whisper thing and he clearly just mouths "Look into my eye." Don't know why he said he'd told her his name. He didn't have to explain what he told her at all.

[zebaroth]

Dec 7, 2015 8:30:34 GMT ninjaconor said:

Dec 7, 2015 0:51:12 GMT zebaroth said:

i like river song besides she has meet every doctor at some point so she would capidie's at some point

I'm glad to see her return too. Means she's not just going to be a Smith-era thing. Maybe we'll eventually see how she learned The Doctor's name.

yes we might learn the answer to the question doubt will be 42 though

[da professor]

Dec 7, 2015 0:43:29 GMT zebaroth said:

i agree once again the impossible girl dose the impossible did the docotr not say that the corw thing would find you no matter where you went
or dose being time locked make it not able to find you

The raven isn't time-sensitive. All it knows is its target is right in front of it. When Clara returns to Gallifrey in however many centuries it takes her to get bored and they put her back where they found her, the raven will get her. If she never returns to Gallifrey, it will find her on the earliest date after that point that she is in London and it will get her then.
She's got herself some wiggle room, but she hasn't cheated it entirely.

[jennysfan]

Dec 6, 2015 17:43:52 GMT generalrose said:

Dec 6, 2015 17:31:35 GMT Escher said:

I think if I'm not mistaken, these were leftovers from the 'Cloister Wars', as mentioned in the episode (?).

They were, but the Dalek and Cybermen were too "new" to be part of the ancient Cloister Wars. I would have appreciated a Sontaran being stuck down there though.

'New' loses a lot of it's relevance when time travel is involved; as the old joke goes, 'when' is irrelevant with time travel.
Besides, not all of them could be from the Cloister Wars. The Doctor implied that the Darlek broke in, so it most likely only dates back to the Time War; an intelligence mission gone wrong.

[Eryx]

Absolutely loved this one. Shame that it took an entire series to get us such a great story. I even liked the Ashildur and Clara taking off in the 50's diner style TARDIS. I agree though that keeping Clara out of the bottle was a bad move. She's died. Let her stay that way. Loved seeing Gallifrey again but Moffat, FFS!, stop with the gender changing regenerations!