Auton Question

[olegrand]

So, I know that Autons are created and animated by the Nestene Consciousness... but does this mean that the NC could create such things from scratch, in a time period where plastic was unknown on Earth ? Or does it require a pre-exsting "plastic culture" to start with and does "creation" here mean that Autons are modified / converted / transformed actual shopping window dummies ? What do you think ? (I'm toying with the idea of using Autons in 17th century Paris)

[misterharry]

Interesting question. I think the Nestene Consciousness would struggle on a pre-plastics world. In Spearhead from Space and Terror of the Autons, it needed to take over plastics factories in order to manufacture its Autons and its other weapons - the dolls, daffodils and so on. It couldn't just create these itself. In Rose, it's less clear. But I'd think that in a primitive society, the Consciousness would need local agents to build the means of plastics production before it could invade.

As for whether it can convert any plastic or can only manipulate special "Nestene" plastic, I've always thought the latter, and I'm supported in that by the Master referring to the plastic of the black Auton chair as having "unique properties". However, in Rose, the Doctor says to Rose: "Think of it, plastic all over the world, every artificial thing waiting to come alive. The shop window dummies, the phones, the wires, the cables" (to which Rose replies "The breast implants!"), which implies that it could control all plastics. Maybe its abilities have developed since the 1970s?

Incidentally, I remember a short story in one of the charity anthologies (Shelf Life, perhaps?) set in the late 19th Century in which the Nestenes used Bakelite (slightly anachronistically), but struggled to control it - Bakelite just isn't quite good enough to receive its control signals.

[Hedgewick]

My understanding has always been that, given the right circumstances, the Nestene Consciousness would be able to control any and all plastics. For me, this has always been the appeal of the Autons as monsters. They're not simply violent shop window dummies. That telephone cord might spring to life and try to strangle the Doctor! That inflatable couch might try to eat you! The Doctor's line in "Rose" drives the horror home. By the twenty-first century, there's an incalculable amount of plastic in the world, it has been integrated into our lives inextricably, and there's an infinite variety of ways in which it might represent a threat to our heroes.

Of course, you can bend these supposed rules to suit your gameplay purposes. A historical adventure would simply require the Nestene Consciousness to bring along its own invasion-ready supply of synthetic materials. Anachronistic plastic would likely prove irresistible to contemporary industry and commerce. Alternatively, you might explore the potential control the Consciousness could wield over similar substances, including natural materials such as rubber. How might rubber Autons behave differently to plastic Autons? How might the Nestene Consciousness's control over "less developed" materials be different, perhaps more primitive? It might be interesting to explore this in a historical adventure.

[olegrand]

Thanks for the very thorough replies & spot-on advice. Here is a short summary of the storyline I'm working on - please feel free to critique it / point out any gross inconsistency you may notice etc.

In the 1630s, a Nestene Sphere falls to Earth as some kind of advance survey scout to evaluate the planet's potential for colonization. And of course 17th century Earth seems to show little potential, since it is a pre-industrial world, with no man-designed plastics whatsoever... BUT...

The Sphere makes contact with a brilliant alchemist / scientist and teaches him to make a "prodigious matter", ie an unabashedly anachronistic type of plastic - again as part of some kind of secret "invasion appraisal program". As far as the alchemist is concerned, the Sphere is a "higher being" helping him on his way to the philosopher's stone etc. And with this "wondrous material" and the help of the Sphere, he manage to create two proto-Autons ("homunculi", in his alchemical parlance - we may also see shades of the Golem here).

The alchemist then presents his wondrous automatons to the King (or perhaps a powerful cabal of conspiring nobles), hoping to impress him into funding the mass production of a homunculi army, which would of couse be the hidden invasion force.

Do you find this reasonably Who-consistent?

[Catsmate]

Jun 11, 2015 4:17:05 GMT olegrand said:

Thanks for the very thorough replies & spot-on advice. Here is a short summary of the storyline I'm working on - please feel free to critique it / point out any gross inconsistency you may notice etc.

In the 1630s, a Nestene Sphere falls to Earth as some kind of advance survey scout to evaluate the planet's potential for colonization. And of course 17th century Earth seems to show little potential, since it is a pre-industrial world, with no man-designed plastics whatsoever... BUT...

The Sphere makes contact with a brilliant alchemist / scientist and teaches him to make a "prodigious matter", ie an unabashedly anachronistic type of plastic - again as part of some kind of secret "invasion appraisal program". As far as the alchemist is concerned, the Sphere is a "higher being" helping him on his way to the philosopher's stone etc. And with this "wondrous material" and the help of the Sphere, he manage to create two proto-Autons ("homunculi", in his alchemical parlance - we may also see shades of the Golem here).

The alchemist then presents his wondrous automatons to the King (or perhaps a powerful cabal of conspiring nobles), hoping to impress him into funding the mass production of a homunculi army, which would of couse be the hidden invasion force.

Do you find this reasonably Who-consistent?

I think it fits fine. There are plenty of examples of anachronistic technology introduced accidentally or deliberately (e.g. Evolution, Just War, Victory of the Daleks, Daleks in Manhattan) so I see no reaspon why the Nestene Consciousness couldn't introduce so limited manufacture of plastics especially if their pawn had access to crude oil or a similar feedstock.

On that point might the Nestene be able to animate crude oil alone? While it's not a polymer it does have some similar characteristics and may be usable as a crude 'body' for the consciousness. Or perhaps coal tar can be used as an initial stage material.

As for the type of plastic the Nestene can use, certainly in the Classic Who stories it had to be specially prepared, they showed no ability to 'possess' or animate standard plastics. This may have changed during the Time War as the New Series Nestene seems rather different.

[Hedgewick]

Jun 11, 2015 4:17:05 GMT olegrand said:

Do you find this reasonably Who-consistent?

Oh, yes. That sounds excellent, and thoroughly in keeping with Doctor Who tradition. I particularly like what the alchemy and homunculi angle bring to the proceedings. Played correctly, you could have a marvelous reveal for the Autons at the moment your players realize just what the threat is.

[Catsmate]

Jun 11, 2015 12:35:46 GMT Hedgewick said:

Jun 11, 2015 4:17:05 GMT olegrand said:

Do you find this reasonably Who-consistent?

Oh, yes. That sounds excellent, and thoroughly in keeping with Doctor Who tradition. I particularly like what the alchemy and homunculi angle bring to the proceedings. Played correctly, you could have a marvelous reveal for the Autons at the moment your players realize just what the threat is.

Indeed. An alchemist having various odd items delivered in quantity (wood tar, coal, seep oil, sulphur et cetera) could attract attention but I doubt players will expect crude plastics and Autons.

[Escher]

Jun 10, 2015 19:56:07 GMT olegrand said:

So, I know that Autons are created and animated by the Nestene Consciousness... but does this mean that the NC could create such things from scratch, in a time period where plastic was unknown on Earth ? Or does it require a pre-exsting "plastic culture" to start with and does "creation" here mean that Autons are modified / converted / transformed actual shopping window dummies ? What do you think ? (I'm toying with the idea of using Autons in 17th century Paris)

You can create a fictional precursor to 'Parkesine' or an early 'unknown' version of it that perhaps had a weakness that caused it to fade from history (flammability?).

I set a story in Victorian England where 'Mrs. Renholm's Travelling Doll's House' was the source of a Nestene attempt to invade Earth. It controlled Parkesine (early plastic) dolls in a travelling 'automated doll' show. It eventually led the Doctor and his companion to stop an attempt to replace Queen Victoria and the Royal houses of Europe with Facsimiles.
Parkesine's weakness was of offering limited control by the Nestene and of it's fragile nature.


Wiki quote:


Parkesine is considered the first man-made plastic. The plastic material was patented by Alexander Parkes, In Birmingham, UK in 1856. It was unveiled at the 1862 Great International Exhibition in London. Parkesine won a bronze medal at the 1862 World's fair in London. Parkesine was made from cellulose (the major component of plant cell walls) treated with nitric acid as a solvent. The output of the process (commonly known as cellulose nitrate or pyroxilin) could be dissolved in alcohol and hardened into a transparent and elastic material that could be molded when heated. By incorporating pigments into the product, it could be made to resemble ivory.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic

[Catsmate]

I remember Parkesine from the TV series 'Connections' back in the '70s, dangerous stuff. Even Celluloid (which added camphor) was pretty unsafe and occasionally explosive, though it'd be a good material for dolls as it was used as a replacement for ivory.

[olegrand]

Thank you for all the precious advice (and for the enthusiastic comments) - you've answered every question I had in mind. And having found out about Parkesine in the meantime I think I won't resist the pleasure of forging a similar name for my "miraculous matter", using the alchemist's name (probably Italian) as a base... I'll keep you posted

[Hedgewick]

Thanks for creating this thread, Olegrand. I have to say, reading this thread and reading up on the various proto-plastics mentioned here has been a real education. I know a lot more about the history and development of synthetic materials than I did last week!

[misterharry]

Jun 11, 2015 20:10:36 GMT Hedgewick said:

Thanks for creating this thread, Olegrand. I have to say, reading this thread and reading up on the various proto-plastics mentioned here has been a real education. I know a lot more about the history and development of synthetic materials than I did last week!

Once again, the educational remit of Doctor Who has been fulfilled!

[olegrand]

The whole "Autons in the 1630s" idea came from a couple of pictures upon which I stumbled while surfing the web - and I'll definitely use these when I run the adventure:

1.bp.blogspot.com/-NFLDqZQGWmY/UPxMl1gjVhI/AAAAAAAAFXI/h_iQ9neHOXg/s1600/vacopy_1630young.jpg

s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f3/13/df/f313dfabec5469c920d19921ed2637b6.jpg

[Escher]

Jun 12, 2015 17:56:28 GMT olegrand said:

The whole "Autons in the 1630s" idea came from a couple of pictures upon which I stumbled while surfing the web - and I'll definitely use these when I run the adventure:

1.bp.blogspot.com/-NFLDqZQGWmY/UPxMl1gjVhI/AAAAAAAAFXI/h_iQ9neHOXg/s1600/vacopy_1630young.jpg

s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f3/13/df/f313dfabec5469c920d19921ed2637b6.jpg

Nice discovery! Photos and pictures are great sources of inspration.

[zebaroth]

this is something to think about it would make for interesting game