misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,236
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 25, 2014 9:52:35 GMT
For what its worth page 48 of David Banks' "Cybermen" book depicts Mondas and Earth orbiting EACH OTHER rather then them being on the opposite sides of the sun. That's probably where I got the idea from then. Maybe Mondas was originally created by the Constructors of Destiny on the opposite side of the Sun to the Earth (as per The Quantum Archangel). But the speed of their orbits was not synchronised exactly, so over the billennia one eventually caught up with the other and they began to orbit each other around a common point. Given the previous problems with a dual-planet theory (see upthread), this probably took place after the Silurians entered hibernation (maybe even as a result of the approach of Mondas?) but before human civilisation appeared on Earth - or maybe at the very earliest stages. This common orbit was not entirely stable and Mondas gradually drifted away from Earth (or maybe the Mondasians tampered with the GodEngine and inadvertently caused this) and travelled to "the edge of space" - I go with David Banks' theory that this means the edge of the solar system. Maybe Mondas now had a huge eliptical orbit around the Sun, but 1986 was the first time it would come into close proximity with the Earth. You could also add in the Cybus Cybermen falling out of the Void onto Mondas at some point, and the Mondasians retro-engineering their technology and using it to develop their own cybernetic enhancements in order to survive the planetary cataclysms that the above events would undoubtedly cause.
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Catsmate
13th Incarnation
No longer living in a bad adaption of "A Journal of the Plague Year".
Posts: 3,730
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Post by Catsmate on Aug 25, 2014 10:37:28 GMT
It might set up the Audio Drama "Spare Parts" nicely. For what its worth page 48 of David Banks' "Cybermen" book depicts Mondas and Earth orbiting EACH OTHER rather then them being on the opposite sides of the sun. So it does, I dug my copy out over the weekend. Indeed it has an interesting, and rather Velikovsky-esque, planetography for the Solar system. Orbit | Occupant(s) | Mass (kg)
| Notes | 1 | Mercury & Luna | 3.30E23 & 7.34E22 | Double planet
| 2 | Venus | 4.86E24 |
| 3 | Earth & Mondas | 5.97E24 & ?
| Double planet
| 4 | Mars | 6.42E23 |
| 5
| Fendahl
| ?
| aka Asterus
| 6
| Jupiter | 1.90E27 |
| 7
| Saturn | 5.68E26 |
| 8
| Uranus | 8.68E25 |
| 9
| Neptune | 1.02E26 |
| 10
| Pluto & Charon
| 1.25E22/1.52E21 | Double planet
| 10 | Penultima | ? | possibly aka Cassius; may be Eris (?)
| 12 | PLANET 14
| ? | small rocky planet
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Luna was originally in orbit with Mercury before being somehow torn free and in turn removed Mondas from it's binary orbit with Earth and replaced it. I've got a few problem with this, from practical point of view. Firstly the forces needed to change a planetary orbit are huge, generally larger than those needed to actually pulverise it. Secondly I can't see a small mass actually displacing a planet of terrestrial mass. Next the current view on the formation of the Earth and Luna is the the 'Big Splash', that they came from a common source of matter billions of years ago, as demonstrated by their identical isotope ratios (sorry some modification of the Silurian backstory will be needed). - I had the wandering planet that caused their hibernation end up colliding with one of the larger asteroids and contributing to all the rocks there.
Next there's the omission of Eris (unless it's actually Penultima though it's far further than the orbit shown). And finally I just find the whole 'planets careening around space' a bit, well, inelegant. That said I'm all in favour of a few more planets on the edges of the solar system. FASA had Vulcan ( Power of the Daleks) as a wandering planet that took up a solar orbit, but I placed it far beyond the orbit of Neptune, as a satellite of a brown dwarf gas giant called Decimus and an important site in future human space exploration. - In fact you could add a few more planets out there if you wanted to and still fit with current knowledge. Even within our own system planets are surprisingly difficult to find with current technology. Indeed many modern astronomers postulate objects from terrestrial mass to brown dwarfs to explain observations of objects in the Kuiper belt and the Oort cloud.
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Post by Curufea on Aug 26, 2014 4:10:54 GMT
I was implying they could be different or changed timelines There's certainly enough continuity problems through the entire series to justify multiple timelines for many of the stories.
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Catsmate
13th Incarnation
No longer living in a bad adaption of "A Journal of the Plague Year".
Posts: 3,730
Favourite Doctors: Thirteen, Six, Five, Two, Eight, Twelve, Nine, One, Eleven..
Traits: Eccentric, Insatiable Curiousity.
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Post by Catsmate on Aug 26, 2014 7:13:13 GMT
I was implying they could be different or changed timelines There's certainly enough continuity problems through the entire series to justify multiple timelines for many of the stories. Oh yes. Givem the amount of buggering around with history it's easy to imagine some changes.
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Post by da professor on Aug 27, 2014 17:46:18 GMT
Updating the table Catsmate posted to take account of astronomical discoveries since its original publication could give this:- Orbit
| Planet | Notes | 1 | Mercury | planet 1 | 2 | Venus | planet 2 | 3 | Earth | rare triple planet system, |
| Mondas | comprising planets 3 -5
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| Luna |
| 4 | Mars | planet 6 | 5 | Ceres | named for the dwarf planet in the asteroid belt, planet y | 6 | Jupiter | planet 8 | 7 | Saturn | planet 9 | 8 | Uranus | planet 10 | 9 | Pluto | planet 11 | 10 | Haumea | dwarf planet discovered 2004, planet 12 | 11 | Makemake | dwarf planet discovered 2005, planet 13 | 12 | Eris | dwarf planet discovered 2005, planet 14 |
Also, if cybermen from the 1851 incursion, the ones who had the dalek data, subsequently found themselves on Eris in the ancient past, this could explain how the cybermen of The Invasion knew of the second Doctor and his companions from planet 14.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,236
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 28, 2014 10:34:32 GMT
Looking at this list makes me realise just how many of the Solar System's bodies have had indigenous life spring up on them, quite apart from colonisation by humans and others:
Venus - originally, Venusians who developed a now-extinct civilisation in the distant past (Venusian Lullaby); later the Cytherians, who caused a greenhouse effect (Voyage to Venus); and at some point in the future, Venus is also home to Thraskins and other species (Voyage to Venus again);
Earth - Homo Reptilia, mankind and all the multitude of animal and plant species;
Mondas - Mondasians/Cybermen;
Mars - the Martian civilisation that preceded the Ice Warriors (Lords of the Red Planet); later the Ice Warriors themselves (and is the Flood from The Waters of Mars also native?);
Planet 5 - the Fendahl (and presumably the species it originally preyed on);
Ceres - the Cerulians, according to the K9 TV series;
Jupiter - the Jovians, who are almost extinct by the 24th Century (The Jupiter Conjunction);
Enceladus - this moon of Saturn has primitive shark-like predators swimming in its liquid methane seas (The Wheel of Ice);
Neptune - an octopoid species lives in the methane atmosphere (The Eye of the Tyger);
Triton - home to the Waro (The Devil Goblins From Neptune);
Pluto - home to a race of voracious microbes, again according to the K9 series;
Sedna - possibly the home planet of the Siccati at some time in the past (they certainly lived there in the short stories "Neptune" and "Sedna", though it's unclear whether they were native to Sedna).
Despite initial appearances, our star system is a very fertile place!
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Catsmate
13th Incarnation
No longer living in a bad adaption of "A Journal of the Plague Year".
Posts: 3,730
Favourite Doctors: Thirteen, Six, Five, Two, Eight, Twelve, Nine, One, Eleven..
Traits: Eccentric, Insatiable Curiousity.
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Post by Catsmate on Aug 28, 2014 12:57:29 GMT
Looking at this list makes me realise just how many of the Solar System's bodies have had indigenous life spring up on them, quite apart from colonisation by humans and others: Venus - originally, Venusians who developed a now-extinct civilisation in the distant past ( Venusian Lullaby); later the Cytherians, who caused a greenhouse effect ( Voyage to Venus); and at some point in the future, Venus is also home to Thraskins and other species ( Voyage to Venus again); Earth - Homo Reptilia, mankind and all the multitude of animal and plant species; Mondas - Mondasians/Cybermen; Mars - the Martian civilisation that preceded the Ice Warriors ( Lords of the Red Planet); later the Ice Warriors themselves (and is the Flood from The Waters of Mars also native?); Planet 5 - the Fendahl (and presumably the species it originally preyed on); Ceres - the Cerulians, according to the K9 TV series; Jupiter - the Jovians, who are almost extinct by the 24th Century ( The Jupiter Conjunction); Enceladus - this moon of Saturn has primitive shark-like predators swimming in its liquid methane seas ( The Wheel of Ice); Neptune - an octopoid species lives in the methane atmosphere ( The Eye of the Tyger); Triton - home to the Waro ( The Devil Goblins From Neptune); Pluto - home to a race of voracious microbes, again according to the K9 series; Sedna - possibly the home planet of the Siccati at some time in the past (they certainly lived there in the short stories "Neptune" and "Sedna", though it's unclear whether they were native to Sedna). Despite initial appearances, our star system is a very fertile place! Indeed, and that's just the real bits. There's plenty of room for more planets, brown dwarfs, dead stars and more out there.
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Catsmate
13th Incarnation
No longer living in a bad adaption of "A Journal of the Plague Year".
Posts: 3,730
Favourite Doctors: Thirteen, Six, Five, Two, Eight, Twelve, Nine, One, Eleven..
Traits: Eccentric, Insatiable Curiousity.
Member is Online
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Post by Catsmate on Mar 18, 2015 19:37:45 GMT
A question for those who've contributed to this thread; I'm re-writing it as an article for Diary of DWRPG, are people OK with me using their contributions?
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,236
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Mar 18, 2015 20:29:58 GMT
A question for those who've contributed to this thread; I'm re-writing it as an article for Diary of DWRPG, are people OK with me using their contributions? Fine with me.
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Post by da professor on Mar 19, 2015 9:27:18 GMT
A question for those who've contributed to this thread; I'm re-writing it as an article for Diary of DWRPG, are people OK with me using their contributions? Fine with me. Feel free.
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Post by Marnal on Mar 19, 2015 16:28:27 GMT
Go for it!
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Catsmate
13th Incarnation
No longer living in a bad adaption of "A Journal of the Plague Year".
Posts: 3,730
Favourite Doctors: Thirteen, Six, Five, Two, Eight, Twelve, Nine, One, Eleven..
Traits: Eccentric, Insatiable Curiousity.
Member is Online
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Post by Catsmate on Mar 21, 2015 20:53:16 GMT
Thanks for everything, I've uploaded a draft ( link) if anyone's interested in taking a look. ETA: link updated for new version.
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