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Post by Siskoid on Jan 31, 2013 13:52:11 GMT
Being a master list of extracanonical material featuring the 7th Doctor in need of RPG conversion for the WhoRPG Extracanonical Sourcebook Project. Upon reflection, I think the best way to divide the massive amount of 7th Doctor material is to split it chronologically. This first list covers the extracanonical stories that predate the New Adventures' introduction of Bernice Summerfield. dwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=xtrauni&action=display&thread=2073Because we're splitting it up time-wise, we need to decide what counts as when. Normally, I use the Timeline Theory articles on the TARDIS Wiki: tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Theory:Timeline_-_Seventh_DoctorHOWEVER, I disagree with their assessment that many Ace audios (including those with Hex) takes place AFTER the New Adventures (thanks to amnesia and such), though discrepancies like the TARDIS having a Victorian interior as per the TV Movie means it's complicated. So the above link is still very useful especially when checking if comics and short stories fit this book or the next, but any story between LOVE AND WAR and OPERATION VOLCANO is in VOL 2. One exception is the Telos Novella, misplaced based on slim evidence. Also, any story from EXCELIS DECAYS (the Doctor is alone and pictured as he looked in the TVM) to the end of the page is in VOL 2. The rest fits this volume. NEW ADVENTURES (NOVELS)Timewyrm: Genesys Timewyrm: Exodus Timewyrm: Apocalypse Timewyrm: RevelationCat's Cradle: Time's Crucible Cat's Cradle: Warhead Cat's Cradle: Witch MarkNightshade (Sk) PAST DOCTOR ADVENTURES (NOVELS)Relative Dementias The Hollow MenIllegal AlienMatrix Storm HarvestPrime TimeHeritageLoving the AlienAlgebra of Ice Atom Bomb BluesIndependence DayTELOS NOVELLASCitadel of DreamsNEW SEVENTH DOCTOR ADVENTURES (AUDIOS)Unregenerate!We Are DaleksThe WarehouseTerror of the SontaransFlip-FlopRed (Sk) Bang-Bang-A-Boom! The Fires of Vulcan1963: The Assassination Games Shockwave The DefectorsThe Four DoctorsThe Genocide MachineHarvest of the SycoraxThe Fearmonger (Sk) Dust BreedingColditzThe Rapture (Sk) The HarvestDreamtime LIVE 34 Night ThoughtsThe Veiled LeopardThe Settling No Man's Land Nocturne The Dark HusbandForty-Five The Magic MousetrapEnemy of the Daleks The Angel of ScutariProject: DestinyA Death in the FamilyLurkers at Sunlight's EdgeRobophobiaThe Doomsday QuatrainHouse of Blue FireProject: NirvanaProtect and Survive Black and White Gods and Monsters AfterlifeRevenge of the Swarm Mask of Tragedy Signs and WondersYou Are the Doctor and Other StoriesA Life of Crime Fiesta of the Damned Maker of Demons Shadow Planet World Apart The High Price of Parking The Blood Furnace The Silurian Candidate Red Planets The DispossessedMuse of FireThe Quantum Possibility Engine The Split InfinitiveTHE LOST STORIES (AUDIOS)Thin Ice Crime of the Century Animal Earth AidTELEVISIONDimensions in Time (& Rescue, short story in 1995 Yearbook)Omitted but not forgotten: Beyus, Faroon, Burton, Goronwy, Tollmaster, Mrs. Remington, Kingpin, Morgana, Nord, Ringmaster, Whizz Kid, Peter Warmsly, Shou Yuing, Inspector Mackenzie, Light, Midge, Sergeant Paterson, ShreelaOPTIONAL: COMICS, SHORT STORIES, MISC.Comic strips: Olla the Heat Vampire should be included (a great site that discusses the Doctor Who comics: www.alteredvistas.co.uk/html/seventh_doctor.html ); Hill of Beans. A Cold Day in Hell/Redemption, The Crossroads of Time (DWM)/Time Bomb (Death’s Head), Nemesis of the Daleks (DWM), Fellow Travellers et al (DWM), The Mark of Mandragora (DWM), Evening’s Empire (DW Classic Comics), The Enlightenment of Ly-Chee the Wise (The Incredible Hulk Presents)Short Trips ( Stop the Pigeon, Ace of Hearts) More Short Trips (uPVC) Short Trips and Side Steps (Monsters) Big Finish's Short Trips stories Police and ShreevesVideo Game: Destiny of the DoctorsBBV Videos: The Professor and Dominie/AliceDid I forget anything? What concepts should be pulled from these? Anything you personally want to try your hand at?
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Jan 31, 2013 19:48:53 GMT
I've got the following write-ups which could be used for this one:
The Krill, from Storm Harvest (also Dust Breeding) Hex, first appeared in The Harvest Raine Creevy, first appeared in Crime of the Century The Metatraxi, also first appeared in Crime of the Century Olla the Heat Vampire, from the DWM strips (A Cold Day in Hell) Abslom Daak and the Star Tigers, featured in the comic-strips Nemesis of the Daleks and Emperor of the Daleks
Are we including the Death Comes to Time web/audio story in this section? If so, I also have write-ups for the Doctor's companion Antimony and the Minister of Chance.
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Post by Doctor X on Feb 1, 2013 3:43:55 GMT
Was wondering if Abslom Daak was going to be here, since this was the Doctor he met, or if he deserved his own "book."
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Feb 1, 2013 7:02:18 GMT
I think this is the best place for Abslom Daak - he's included in my post above.
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Post by Siskoid on Feb 1, 2013 11:43:37 GMT
I agree. The only other place would have been in the OTHER McCoy book, Deceit, and that's just a clone of Daak.
That said, if there IS a spin-off book down the line, Abslom would get some space there too.
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Post by dastari on May 28, 2013 20:57:50 GMT
Uh this is where its going to get insane. I can't imagine having the time to write up all the McCoy and McGann stuff especially as more comes out constantly. Still put me down for all 4 books in the Timewyrm series and the Fires of Vulcan.
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jennysfan
Dominus Tempus
Moved awhile ago, still a mess
Posts: 195
Favourite Doctors: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, War, 9, 10, 11 & 12 in no particular order
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Post by jennysfan on Sept 1, 2014 10:13:07 GMT
I hate to say it but...Doctor Who - Dimensions in Time should be listed, though I prefer the ReMastered version.
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Post by Siskoid on Sept 1, 2014 12:55:32 GMT
Yeah... Dimensions in Time... I wasn't snubbing it. I guess it IS part of the 7th Doctor era.
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jennysfan
Dominus Tempus
Moved awhile ago, still a mess
Posts: 195
Favourite Doctors: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, War, 9, 10, 11 & 12 in no particular order
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Post by jennysfan on Sept 1, 2014 13:12:45 GMT
Yeah... Dimensions in Time... I wasn't snubbing it. I guess it IS part of the 7th Doctor era. I wouldn't blame you if you were. No one denies that it has issues.
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Post by Siskoid on Aug 7, 2018 14:12:32 GMT
Nudging this up because it'll be the next big book in the series and I've updated the list of stories, with explanations as to what's what in terms of eligibility.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 7, 2018 16:14:07 GMT
Nudging this up because it'll be the next big book in the series and I've updated the list of stories, with explanations as to what's what in terms of eligibility. Excellent! There are a couple of omissions though: NEW ADVENTURES (NOVELS):You've listed Timewyrm: Genesis twice - the second instance should presumably be Timewyrm: Exodus. AUDIOS:Shadow Planet/World Apart - both feature the 7th Doctor, Ace and Hex, so they should be part of this volume. OFF-OFF CANON:I'd like to include something for the Professor and Ace (a.k.a. Dominie and Alice) audios from BBV in this sourcebook if possible. As you might imagine, I've already started work on this one. I've not done too much yet, but if anyone wants to nab any of the stories to do, speak up a.s.a.p. please so that I know to avoid them!
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thereviewer
3rd Incarnation
Posts: 278
Favourite Doctors: Jodie Whittaker, Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi, David Tennant, Christopher Eccelston, John Hurt, Paul McGann, Sylvester McCoy, Peter Davison, Tom Baker, William Hartnell
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Post by thereviewer on Aug 13, 2018 21:18:02 GMT
Nudging this up because it'll be the next big book in the series and I've updated the list of stories, with explanations as to what's what in terms of eligibility. Excellent! There are a couple of omissions though: NEW ADVENTURES (NOVELS):You've listed Timewyrm: Genesis twice - the second instance should presumably be Timewyrm: Exodus. AUDIOS:Shadow Planet/World Apart - both feature the 7th Doctor, Ace and Hex, so they should be part of this volume. OFF-OFF CANON:I'd like to include something for the Professor and Ace (a.k.a. Dominie and Alice) audios from BBV in this sourcebook if possible. As you might imagine, I've already started work on this one. I've not done too much yet, but if anyone wants to nab any of the stories to do, speak up a.s.a.p. please so that I know to avoid them! Siskoid & misterharryLooking at the theoretical timeline as listed in the TARDIS Wikia link you gave, Hill of Beans falls pre-Benny. Characters to stat include Adele, Loz, Targut President Karde, Commander Denari, and Klean Kov. I also have an idea for an adventure seed, so let me know if I should PM it to either of you to review. I have a pretty good adventure idea that is pretty topical and relevant, if you're interested. Former member toymaker66 gave me an idea for an adventure seed based on the BBV Audio Adventure Punchline where Dominie finds himself trapped in a world where his life is a TV family sitcom complete with him using catchphrases ("Oh goodness gracious me!") and even a laugh-track. While I already have an adventure like this planned for the near-future in my own campaign, it obviously wouldn't hurt to use the idea for a scenario seed. Shame that Operation: Volcano is stated to take place post-Benny. I actually rather liked that adventure a lot personally. It would've been nice to have Daleks featured, but still great to see Counter-Measures. Reading the ending to that story, I could almost hear the McCoy Doctor Who theme playing at the end. I suppose I could get a head-start in helping to try and stat the Markarians, if both of you would like.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 14, 2018 14:25:44 GMT
Looking at the theoretical timeline as listed in the TARDIS Wikia link you gave, Hill of Beans falls pre-Benny. Characters to stat include Adele, Loz, Targut President Karde, Commander Denari, and Klean Kov. I also have an idea for an adventure seed, so let me know if I should PM it to either of you to review. I have a pretty good adventure idea that is pretty topical and relevant, if you're interested. I didn't really get on with Hill of Beans, so I've not looked at it for its sourcebook potential. But if you've an idea for it, I'd suggest PMing Siskoid. I definitely want to include the Dominie and Alice audios in the Off-Off Canon section, though I haven't given any thought to what form that would take. Punchline is a great story and I heartily recommend the audio if you can find a copy. The adventure seed you describe is actually a summary of the story, but that might be an option for how to present this in the sourcebook - a selection of stats and some adventure seeds for the stories themselves. I'm planning on leaving the BBV audios fairly late in the writing schedule, but if you want to send me your ideas I'll look to see if I can incorporate them somehow. Yes, I really enjoyed Operation Volcano too. A good story, some great art and it really evoked the 7th Doctor era. We always welcome new contributors, so if you want to pitch anything, let Siskoid know.
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Post by definativewillg on Aug 14, 2018 17:08:59 GMT
Yeah... Dimensions in Time... I wasn't snubbing it. I guess it IS part of the 7th Doctor era. I wouldn't blame you if you were. No one denies that it has issues. A LOT of Issues, LOL. But it should certainly be in there. And there's already been a Dimensions in Time module made, somewhere. Hate to bring up a weird one, but... The comic strip, Ground Zero features a Seventh Doctor who is dressed as he was in the TV movie and Ace who seems...fresh out of Season 26. Now my gut says put it in a post Bernice era, however Ace seems young and not the hardened Warrior or Times Vigilante and her death in that story eliminates that. And the Threshold seemed to be an interesting concept. Come to think of it, wasn't a version of Ace killed in Loving the Alien? Did the Doctor miss her that much he somehow got a Third Ace? Whats your thoughts, chaps?
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Post by definativewillg on Aug 14, 2018 17:10:35 GMT
I've got the following write-ups which could be used for this one: The Krill, from Storm Harvest (also Dust Breeding) Hex, first appeared in The HarvestRaine Creevy, first appeared in Crime of the CenturyThe Metatraxi, also first appeared in Crime of the CenturyOlla the Heat Vampire, from the DWM strips ( A Cold Day in Hell) Abslom Daak and the Star Tigers, featured in the comic-strips Nemesis of the Daleks and Emperor of the DaleksAre we including the Death Comes to Time web/audio story in this section? If so, I also have write-ups for the Doctor's companion Antimony and the Minister of Chance. Oh yes, Please. I love Death Comes to Time.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 14, 2018 18:25:23 GMT
Hate to bring up a weird one, but... The comic strip, Ground Zero features a Seventh Doctor who is dressed as he was in the TV movie and Ace who seems...fresh out of Season 26. Now my gut says put it in a post Bernice era, however Ace seems young and not the hardened Warrior or Times Vigilante and her death in that story eliminates that. And the Threshold seemed to be an interesting concept. Come to think of it, wasn't a version of Ace killed in Loving the Alien? Did the Doctor miss her that much he somehow got a Third Ace? Whats your thoughts, chaps? Not sure what Siskoid thinks, but my view is that the Threshold, the villains from Ground Zero, should be included in one of the 8th Doctor volumes, as they make a major reappearance during his tenure and we learn a lot more about them. As for the multiple Aces, I'd like to include something on them somewhere. IIRC Loving the Alien establishes that damage to the timelines has led to fractures between parallel realities, which is where the second Ace came from. Maybe the third Ace can also be explained that way?
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 14, 2018 18:29:33 GMT
Oh yes, Please. I love Death Comes to Time. I suspect that Death Comes to Time has been pushed back to the second volume - possibly for the Off-Off Canon section. But never fear that it will be covered somewhere - I already have an idea of how to deal with the Time Lords' heightened mental powers from that story in game terms.
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thereviewer
3rd Incarnation
Posts: 278
Favourite Doctors: Jodie Whittaker, Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi, David Tennant, Christopher Eccelston, John Hurt, Paul McGann, Sylvester McCoy, Peter Davison, Tom Baker, William Hartnell
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Post by thereviewer on Aug 14, 2018 21:35:23 GMT
Hate to bring up a weird one, but... The comic strip, Ground Zero features a Seventh Doctor who is dressed as he was in the TV movie and Ace who seems...fresh out of Season 26. Now my gut says put it in a post Bernice era, however Ace seems young and not the hardened Warrior or Times Vigilante and her death in that story eliminates that. And the Threshold seemed to be an interesting concept. Come to think of it, wasn't a version of Ace killed in Loving the Alien? Did the Doctor miss her that much he somehow got a Third Ace? Whats your thoughts, chaps? Not sure what Siskoid thinks, but my view is that the Threshold, the villains from Ground Zero, should be included in one of the 8th Doctor volumes, as they make a major reappearance during his tenure and we learn a lot more about them. As for the multiple Aces, I'd like to include something on them somewhere. IIRC Loving the Alien establishes that damage to the timelines has led to fractures between parallel realities, which is where the second Ace came from. Maybe the third Ace can also be explained that way? I know this won't count either for the pre-Benny book, but I should point out that we have updates for New Series Ace stories thanks to Big Finish. She appears in Gallifrey: Time War 1 in the story Soldier Obscura. Now, I haven't listened to it yet, but without giving too much details, there is another explanation as to what might've ultimately become of Ace. Also, Big Finish is continuing the spin-off Class which will include a story featuring Ace guest-starring titled In Remembrance which I'm guessing might contain some hints as to how she survived. Just thought it would be worth mentioning. I actually did meet Sophie Aldred at ReGeneration Who 1 in Maryland and I asked her how she thought Ace might've handled the Time War. Her response; "She'd have gotten a lot of Nitro-9."
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 15, 2018 9:13:35 GMT
Because we're splitting it up time-wise, we need to decide what counts as when. Normally, I use the Timeline Theory articles on the TARDIS Wiki: tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Theory:Timeline_-_Seventh_DoctorHOWEVER, I disagree with their assessment that many Ace audios (including those with Hex) takes place AFTER the New Adventures (thanks to amnesia and such), though discrepancies like the TARDIS having a Victorian interior as per the TV Movie means it's complicated. So the above link is still very useful especially when checking if comics and short stories fit this book or the next, but any story between LOVE AND WAR and OPERATION VOLCANO is in VOL 2. One exception is the Telos Novella, misplaced based on slim evidence. Also, any story from EXCELIS DECAYS (the Doctor is alone and pictured as he looked in the TVM) to the end of the page is in VOL 2. The rest fits this volume. Where are we putting Sirens of Time? The Wiki timeline would place it in this volume, but you've not included it above - intentional? Incidentally, The Night Before Christmas is an audio Short Trip which was only available as a bonus to subscribers of the Big Finish main range audios - it's never been released for purchase, so I'm not sure that it should be included. Finally, there's a new trilogy of 7th Doctor, Ace and Mel stories starting this month in BF's main range, which can be added to the list (they follow on from The Silurian Candidate): Red Planets (just released) The Dispossessed (Sept 2018) Warlock's Cross (Oct 2018) Plus a 7th Doctor, Ace and Hex story due out in December: Muse of Fire
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Post by Siskoid on Aug 15, 2018 17:55:27 GMT
Place your bets! What allies and villains will be featured on the cover?
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 16, 2018 11:23:14 GMT
Place your bets! What allies and villains will be featured on the cover? OK, I'll go with: Companions - probably Hex, maybe Raine Creevy (depending on availability of suitable pictures) Monsters - hmm, this is a tough one - maybe the Krill (I think photos of Mike Tucker's model are available online, but not sure if they're good enough quality), maybe the Nucleus of the Swarm, otherwise Ricostan (the raccoon on the cover of A Life of Crime) or the thing on the cover of Maker of Demons (a Mogera, I think)? Other - either the split black/white TARDIS from Black and White or the Time Lord sarcophagus from A Death in the FamilyBut I'm looking forward to seeing whatever you come up with - you've a hard act to follow after the Sixth Doctor's cover though!
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Post by Siskoid on Aug 16, 2018 12:07:48 GMT
I agree, I loved being able to convert the coat to blue. I'm already starting to think of 7 Vol.2, which either needs the cream coat or the long hair Doctor.
By the way, -hint - I like to always have at least one thing from prose if I can so that it isn't just Big Finish that's represented.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 16, 2018 13:12:15 GMT
I'm already starting to think of 7 Vol.2, which either needs the cream coat or the long hair Doctor. Absolutely! And some similar Photoshop magic when we get to the two 8th Doctor volumes? Yes, I was trying to think of the books, but for the most part the covers of the novels don't offer much. Though the Krill appear in Storm Harvest (as well as the audio Dust Breeding). Maybe the Valyard (from Matrix - though strictly speaking he's supposed to be in Victorian "Jack the Ripper" guise in that book)? The cover of Prime Time features a Fleshsmith, but it's not clear enough to use. The space below the Doctor on the sourcebook covers could be used for less "conventional" elements - maybe the ice equation from The Algebra of Ice or the face/mushroom cloud from Atom Bomb Blues?
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Post by Siskoid on Aug 16, 2018 13:34:05 GMT
Who's that blue lady on the first New Adventures book? She's got the right angle and definition.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 16, 2018 13:38:18 GMT
Who's that blue lady on the first New Adventures book? She's got the right angle and definition. That would be the Timewyrm herself, otherwise known as Ishtar!
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Post by Siskoid on Aug 16, 2018 14:17:29 GMT
My New Adventures collection starts with Cat's Cradle, but yeah, she's a contender!
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Post by Siskoid on Aug 28, 2018 21:37:35 GMT
Who wants a peak at the cover?
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masque
1st Incarnation
Posts: 8
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Post by masque on Aug 28, 2018 21:50:31 GMT
Tis a thing of beauty.
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misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
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Post by misterharry on Aug 29, 2018 8:59:53 GMT
Who wants a peak at the cover? Excellent work! Another great cover!
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Post by Siskoid on Dec 10, 2018 16:34:29 GMT
As we get closer to my putting the draft online, I've updated the list above, and crossed out the stories that have already been covered.
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