|
Post by Siskoid on Jan 29, 2013 14:53:28 GMT
I've been encouraged to give this a whirl elsewhere on the boards, so here goes... Since Cubicle 7 will release sourcebooks for each Doctor over the next year BUT does not have the license to include material from extracanonical sources (novels, audios, comics, etc.), it's up to us, the fans, to design relevant material on a not-for-profit basis. I've offered to compile and edit the project, and possibly even craft the resulting PDF files (with full graphics that mimic the sourcebooks themselves, I should hope). But obviously, this is a project that "takes a village". For example, I've got a good handle on the Big Finish audios, but have only read (or own and still have to read) a fraction of the novels. So I'm looking for volunteers, contributions etc. from fans of the extracanonical material. Here's what I think the project should look like, feel free to discuss: -One "Extracanonical Appendix Sourcebook" per Doctor, two for Doc7 and Doc8 (split between novels and everything else, given the sheer volume of stories from the gap between the Classic series, the TVM and then New Who). -At least one element from each novel and audio (character, monster, gadget, location or rule/mechanic). -The comics and short stories shouldn't ALL be represented (issue by issue, etc.), but attention should be given to companions featured in those stories (the 1st Doctor's grandkids, for example), and the odd memorable element. -No dedicated summaries of the stories. There are other sources for these, and I don't want it to be full of spoilers, but rather encourage people to discover these tales. -Art! I'm all for poaching the art from the book covers, etc., but it might be nice to have fan artists allow their work to be used to represent aliens, places, etc. -Credit where credit is due. All contributors credited in the work. I see no problem with people submitting work already posted on the forum. -The project is already hugely ambitious (if you know me, then you know it's the only way I like to do things), so extracanonical works that DON'T feature the Doctor (Bernice Summerfield, Jago&Litefoot, Dalek comics, etc.) would be their own book, somewhere down the line. So how do I think we should proceed?In a series of posts on this very board, one for each proposed book, I will give a list of all the stories that must be covered (with at least one element). Contributors can call certain stories or suggest which elements they might pull from them. As these are defined, I'll update the top post/master list. Contributions can be posted directly in the thread, sent via private message, whatever the contributor prefers. THIS thread will be used discuss technical, format and content issues as they relate to the entire project. I'd love for each Appendix to "come out" in the same order as the proper sourcebooks, but still think it should all be done simultaneously as far as the compilation of elements goes. I'll try to write up a 1st Doctor master list soon, and the other Doctors quickly after that. So what do you think? Who's in? Who's got ideas as to how this could all work? Let's talk! The Extracanonical Hartnelldwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=xtrauni&action=display&thread=2074The Extracanonical Troughtondwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=xtrauni&action=display&thread=2075The Extracanonical Pertweedwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2076The Extracanonical Tom Bakerdwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2077The Extracanonical Davisondwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2079The Extracanonical Colin Bakerdwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2081The Extracanonical McCoy (pre-Bennie)dwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2083The Extracanonical McCoy (Bennie onewards)dwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2084The Extracanonical McGann (audio era)dwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2085The Extracanonical McGann (novel era)dwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2086The Extracanonical Ecclestondwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2087The Extracanonical Tennantdwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2088The Extracanonical Smithdwaitas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=xtrauni&thread=2089
|
|
misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
|
Post by misterharry on Jan 29, 2013 15:37:17 GMT
I'm definitely in! I'll pop over to the Extracanonical Hartnell thread and let you have my thoughts on that one over there.
In general terms, do we need to a agree a standard format for write-ups - presumably that used for write-ups in Defending the Earth and The Time Traveller's Companion?
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on Jan 29, 2013 15:46:26 GMT
Yes that makes sense. ALTHOUGH, I kind of like what the Write-Ups forum has been doing with the Eccentric Trait, giving it more depth with qualifiers. It's something I've adopted in my own write-ups. I've seen it at least once in C7's material, but it looks like an anomaly. I don't know what others think.
For me, more descriptive traits would bridge the gap between gamers and the material. We're all more likely to know and understand what "personality traits" mean for characters on the show because we're more likely to have experienced these than any given novel or audio.
|
|
Rassilon
Administrator
Grand Administrator
Posts: 751
|
Post by Rassilon on Jan 29, 2013 17:18:46 GMT
If you need any extra sub-fora let me know.
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on Jan 29, 2013 17:22:21 GMT
Holy crap Rassilon! That was quick and unexpected. I'll take it as a vote of confidence that you gave the project its own sub-forum!
|
|
Rassilon
Administrator
Grand Administrator
Posts: 751
|
Post by Rassilon on Jan 29, 2013 18:00:06 GMT
Holy crap Rassilon! That was quick and unexpected. I'll take it as a vote of confidence that you gave the project its own sub-forum! With pleasure. It has been a consideration for some time. Since we will probably never see anything official on the extended universe (it was confirmed that the license only covers official series Who) it’s only natural to suggest we develop something unofficial. If you need new sub-fora or any other forum resources just let me know. Rass
|
|
|
Post by cigarman on Jan 29, 2013 22:41:55 GMT
No dedicated summaries of the stories. There are other sources for these, and I don't want it to be full of spoilers, but rather encourage people to discover these tales.I wish you would reconsider this. A summary or synopsis of each story would be appreciated, both to provide background for the material, and for those of us with barely enough time to play the game, let alone track down and read or listen to all those stories.
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on Jan 29, 2013 22:52:24 GMT
My thought was that we could tell those stories through their elements. So for example, a companion like Evelyn's entry would tell the stories of the audios she stars in. Or a monster's entry would tell the story of the audio or novel they appear in. And so on.
Obviously, the look and structure of the actual sourcebooks will impact the Appendices'. The way the 1st Doctor is told in his sourcebook might be mirrored in our version.
|
|
Rassilon
Administrator
Grand Administrator
Posts: 751
|
Post by Rassilon on Jan 29, 2013 23:19:47 GMT
PM Sent to Siskoid.
|
|
misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
|
Post by misterharry on Jan 30, 2013 12:07:46 GMT
My thought was that we could tell those stories through their elements. So for example, a companion like Evelyn's entry would tell the stories of the audios she stars in. Or a monster's entry would tell the story of the audio or novel they appear in. And so on. I'm wondering whether that approach could prove a bit cumbersome, particularly for characters who stayed around a long time. There's a risk that the text would turn into a list of "and then..." As a compromise, would we be OK using the blurbs from the back of books and CDs for each story? In most cases, these would provide a teaser for the story without major spoilers. Just a thought.
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on Jan 30, 2013 18:55:10 GMT
The way I visualize it, recurring characters would include biographical highlights, not a piece on every story they took part in. But by featuring a monster, a place, a gadget that's unique to a story, we can tell that story entirely. Reading the entire sourcebook will give you a sense of all of that Doctor's stories, but any given entry might not spoil too much (like Ahistory).
I do have a compromise, and that's starting each book with a timeline that places each story in the Doctor's timeline (from his POV), which will allow for a short blurb. So for example, the audio Mother Russia takes place right after The Gunfighters, so the listing would look like:
The Gunfighters Mother Russia (CC): The TARDIS crew spends a summer in the Russian countryside and prevent an alien shapeshifter from taking Napoleon's place.
And so on. (The CC is for Companion Chronicles.)
I do want to see what the sourcebooks will look like, but a good way to preemptively structure the Appendix is to think of them as containing the following sections: -Introduction/Timeline -Companions & Allies -Villains & Monsters -Times and Places (a gazetteer feel that gives plot hooks, points of interest, etc.) -Stuff (Gadgets and things like time anomalies, TARDIS functions, big concepts) -Bibliography, references, index
Any new mechanics (like Traits or how to handle certain situations - because we can integrate house rules into it) should, as much as possible, be tacked on to their relevant entry (a Trait with the character that has that Trait, etc.)
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on Feb 4, 2013 20:17:25 GMT
We're talking write-up formats in the Hartnell thread. Please check it out and have your say.
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on Feb 7, 2013 17:14:42 GMT
And.... we have a sneak peek at the first few pages of the real Hartnell sourcebook, including the table of contents and what each entry will contain. Very interesting.
HOWEVER, is that how the extracanonical stories are best presented in our appendix? By episode is fine when readers can actually follow along and when adventure-making is a big part of the project. Since we're likely to generate less of that and more splatbook-type material (aliens, villains, planet) that gamers will probably drop into any adventure, not connected to their original context (or am I wrong?) with less chance that gamers are reading or listening along in the same way.
But I want to know what you think.
On the upside, the preview does allow me to start work on emulating the look of the book (though I'd love to see a stats block, etc.)
|
|
misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
|
Post by misterharry on Feb 8, 2013 9:21:40 GMT
To be honest, I'd assumed that the Extracanonical Sourcebooks would be structured on a story-by-story basis (for the audios and novels anyway), rather than a section for Monsters, another for Characters, etc. That way, if there are multiple entries for a single story - a location, a character, an alien race or two - then they all appear together and any links between them make sense.
As for content, I think the story synopsis should be kept to a minimum - more like teasers of a couple of sentences or so. Unlike the TV series, there are likely to be many people who don't know the spin-off stories, so I'd try to avoid unnecessary spoilers. Of course, that would also limit a section on Running the Adventure, or even preclude it entirely. My suggestion would be to focus on Characters, Monsters & Gadgets and Further Adventures sections, with the latter spun off from whatever we include in the former, again to avoid spoilers for the source story.
Just my thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by chickenpaddy on Feb 8, 2013 23:52:41 GMT
I agree with misterharry. Even though character, location, and monster write-ups might by a bit spoilery to the story, the more you can do to limit spoilers, the better. I know I might want to go back and read the stories myself after I look through the extracanonical book.
|
|
misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
|
Post by misterharry on Feb 9, 2013 13:45:18 GMT
I think that some of the entries that will be included will necessarily contain some spoilers - it'll be impossible to avoid them completely if the locations or monsters write-ups are to be accurate and complete. But hopefully we can limit them to a certain extent, by careful wording and so on.
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on Feb 9, 2013 15:07:17 GMT
Agreed. Spoilers should be minimal, and if a monster write-up spoils something important, I'm not against indicating the spoiling level at the top of the entry.
As for the structure, here is might rationale for wanting to do it in Ally/Enemy/Locations/Stuff chapters...
1. Easier to layout. If we want this project to come to term, we've got to shave off some of the time it takes to put it together graphically. If all similar entries are grouped together, it's easier to add to any given chapter. For example, we might give every character/monster its own page, so adding a page and just changing numbering becomes very simple. Meanwhile, Locations are likely to get smaller write-ups (no stat blocks etc.), which means a gazeteer section can have different column widths, etc. If we decide mid-progress that a gadget from a story already covered with a monster should be included, just throw it into the gadgets section, no need to disrupt already laid-out pages. This could also help additions after initial release, as more extracanonical material is released.
2. Chronology. What is it exactly? Would entries be chronological, by type (book/audio/comics) and how would gamers find what they're looking for as, unlike the show, that chronology isn't as clear to audiences. I'm putting gaming FIRST, so a gamer who wants a monster, or a planet, has a section they can go to for browsing. Fans of the actual stories will have an index that tells them where their favorite story is featured in the material.
3. Justifying omissions. If we have a story-by-story layout, we will have to address the fact that a certain novel has a villain but no location information (because choices always have to be made) lest we have to design a lot more stuff than would be reasonable. In some cases, like comics and short stories that we find optional, stories will be missing entirely. To me, that means the guidebook approach wouldn't work for these appendices. It will be a selection of material from as many stories as we can investigate, design and fit, but won't be a complete, encyclopedic guide to the extracanonical universe. The reference section will recommend I, Who, AHistory, TARDIS Wikia, the Doctor Who Reference Guide, etc. for those interested in learning more.
4. Variety. I want to include as much art as possible, and while book and audio covers have some usable art, comics have more, and a mix-and-match approach will likely keep the document more alive than a continuous flow of pages with nary a picture because we're into a medium that featured little usable graphics.
5. What about recurring concepts? The Rocket Men you've designed appear in 2 audios. What happens when the book gets to their second appearance? Or the Selachians who face the second Doctor multiple times? Why not just have a single Selachian entry that mentions all their adventures and leave it at that?
I'm open to the other point of view, but that's where I'm at right now, trying to get my head around the scope of the project and its logistics.
|
|
misterharry
Dominus Tempus
Dalek Caan's Lovechild
Posts: 3,247
Favourite Doctors: Second, Third, Fourth, Eleventh, Thirteenth
Traits: Empathic, Face in the Crowd, Insatiable Curiosity, Stubborn, Phobia (Heights), Unadventurous
|
Post by misterharry on Feb 9, 2013 16:47:23 GMT
All good reasons. I'm happy to go with whatever works best.
|
|
jay042
3rd Incarnation
Working on some art.
Posts: 264
|
Post by jay042 on Mar 20, 2013 22:33:04 GMT
I've been away from the board a while, but I would be quite happy to help out with this!
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on Mar 21, 2013 16:40:03 GMT
Awesome Jay!
Not a lot of activity in March, as both myself and misterharry have been busy elsewhere, though I've used the time to at least line things up graphically, get up to date on 1st Doctor audios, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Doctor X on Apr 11, 2013 19:26:19 GMT
I wonder, since it may be a bit of a stretch, but since we'll likely never see a Torchwood sourcebook, if there might be room for a fanbook here.
|
|
|
Post by chickenpaddy on Apr 11, 2013 22:10:02 GMT
Not a bad idea.
Though, I suppose most of the information you would want for a Torchwood campaign would be found in the UNIT book. At its most basic Torchwood is a darker and edgier version of UNIT. Unless I'm missing something big.
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on Apr 12, 2013 10:41:00 GMT
The 12th book in the series would cover the extracanonical stories that don't feature the Doctor, like Jag&Litefoot, Gallifrey, Abslom Daak, Bernice Summerfield, Faction Paradox, etc. And that includes the Torchwood novels and comics, obviously. By that time, if loads of Torchwood material is still missing from official products (we'll at least see some in the 10th Doctor sourcebook), it'll likely be featured in this series (just as we plan to put characters they didn't have room for in the 1st Doc sourcebook in OUR 1st Doc sourcebook, like Nero and King Richard).
Although if anyone wants to do a full-on Torchwood book, I encourage them to do so.
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on May 14, 2013 16:30:50 GMT
Never published any real norms as far as length goes, but let me do so now.
Suggested: Character - 500-600 words. Location - 300-900. Gadget - 300-600.
New Traits, Planetary data, sidebars, etc. should count, and each time you include one of these (or ask they be included), admissible word count should be lower (they take more room than straight text).
Character stats do not go toward word count, however. The count above is based on your losing the larger part of a column because of the stats.
Note that it is often better to err on the side of LESS than MORE, since the layout can include images where text is short, while long text requires either severe editing or a second page with a lot of white space to fill.
|
|
|
Post by dastari on May 16, 2013 4:59:38 GMT
Just a quick question...where is Downtime going to be slotted in? It doesn't have the Doctor but features Sarah Jane, the Brigadier, and Victoria.
I'd vote for including it in the 2nd Doctor edition mainly because it deals with Yeti but interested in your thoughts on the matter.
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on May 16, 2013 11:12:02 GMT
Makes sense.
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on May 31, 2013 19:06:59 GMT
Subscribers have received the link to the 2nd Doctor sourcebook! (Myself included).
Notably, while the back half of the book is in the style of the first Doc's (by story), the front half is in the style of our own unofficial sourcebook (Doc/Companions, Gadgets, Villains)!
Anyway, this is a sign for me to start work on the 2nd book while we put the finishing touches on the first. I'll be starting page and cover design soon, and start receiving entries! Exciting!
|
|
|
Post by dastari on May 31, 2013 19:13:18 GMT
Subscribers have received the link to the 2nd Doctor sourcebook! (Myself included). Notably, while the back half of the book is in the style of the first Doc's (by story), the front half is in the style of our own unofficial sourcebook (Doc/Companions, Gadgets, Villains)! Anyway, this is a sign for me to start work on the 2nd book while we put the finishing touches on the first. I'll be starting page and cover design soon, and start receiving entries! Exciting! Put the Zarbi from the cover of Twilight of the Gods on the cover. :-)
|
|
|
Post by Siskoid on May 31, 2013 19:25:44 GMT
There should be Zarbi on every cover. (There are two on the First Doc's already.)
|
|
|
Post by dastari on May 31, 2013 19:27:11 GMT
There should be Zarbi on every cover. (There are two on the First Doc's already.) I entirely endorse this idea and will even write the fanfiction to make it happen for every other Doc. :-)
|
|